A Distant Star | For the Second Time

[0:01] You can only watch it for the first time once. It'll be interesting to see what we catch and what we do. Have you ever played the video game Mass Effect? This is where Babylon 5 is becoming Babylon 5. That was great. I love that. 100% completely accurate, definitive ranking of Babylon 5. I love it so much. We're officially into it, Jeff. The year is 2025. The name of the podcast. Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5, for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. And I'm Jeff Akin. Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters, and then we watched Babylon 5 for the first time, and everything changed. Now we're watching this incredible series for the second time, picking up on all the stuff there was no possible way we could have the first time around. But don't worry, we are still searching for those sci-fi messages we find in this series. It's something, Jeff, that I feel is particularly important and somewhat unique to the way that we do things here. We have a litmus test that we use for those things. We want to know, is there holding up a mirror to society?

[1:13] Is it giving us hope that things could be better in the future? Or is it maybe just telling us how to be better human beings to one another? Now, that being said, we are looking for messages that are different from the ones we did the first time because we're here at a second watch, which means everything from this point forward in the episode is full of spoilers anything is fair game for jeff and i to talk about from any point in the timeline from any point in the franchise and the series canon extra canon all that sorts of stuff so if you're watching this for the very first time consider this your spoiler warning go watch the other one first watch babylon 5 for the first time with jeff and i that's where everything's spoiler free and then come do this one trust us it's better that way because the first time comes before the second time and unless you're george lucas you should watch the first time first and right get the second time or the fourth time we're not we're not doing a fourth time no at least not this way not planning on it yeah we weren't planning on a second time either this bren is one of the episodes that uh i've had thoughts about heading into the second time this week we're watching a distant star i don't remember this one we didn't watch this one the first time around no well.

[2:20] There's a there's a hole in my mind there's a hole in your mind around like there's there's like a handful of episodes at this part of season two as a whole like they're just it's just holes I think well and given how much work we put into stuff like prep and everything in the first time around it might be a 24 hour hole in your mind not this time though we're gonna watch it here in a minute but you just mentioned you don't remember it I remember.

[2:43] Absolutely hating this episode, everything about it, despised it. I think at one point I might've said something along the lines of if this episode never happened, the world wouldn't be any different at all. Do you remember? I do. I do. I do. What I, I, I, I remember the swamp rat, this friend coming in. I remember that. um and when i think of a distant star for me based on my first watch alone this is like a bottom three episode of the entire series for me i think i think i'm not entirely sure that being said jeff i'm actually really kind of excited to get back into this episode.

[3:27] And see if it can be redeemed to see if if i was just wrong my we heard from so many people out there just told us we were wrong yeah during our first watch so i'm excited to maybe see was i just wrong or is this really just a bad episode that's what you say you remember you might be a little bit surprised brent i actually went back and listened to our first time episode okay what did i actually say well let's see one quote you had was uh the guest star there's he's just not terrible because of himself it's the writing this writing is awful yeah and then i was like but brent dc fontana wrote this episode and you were like what we actually paused you didn't believe me we actually paused for you to go look it up and see that dc fontana wrote it for those listening to the audio podcast right now i am flummoxed once again dc fontana hey listen listen i have all due respect for dc fontana but you can't hit a thousand every time you're just not batting a thousand every time you're just not and listen not every bit of star trek was great in fact a lot of it was just trash so and i'm not i i don't even know that well enough to know which one she wrote versus which one she didn't so yeah whatever no way she wrote the trash but i have all love and respect for dc fontana i really really do totally i took a lot of notes listening to this i'm not going to share a lot of them because honestly brent we just crapped on this episode for about 55 minutes that must.

[4:54] Have been a fun listen for our listeners out there and even you again yeah they.

[4:59] Were they were i mean for the most part i just remember don't remember it very fondly so i'm like yeah oh yeah but was it entertaining it was i actually enjoyed some of it in fact, in fact there's two things i wanted to share out of it was that uh man we talked, a lot about hyperspace in this one, which is pretty much the point of the episode. That's where we got the whole, like, that's not how hyperspace works thing. That's this episode. Okay. Yep. Okay. We got comments on that through the end of the series. Sure. We're like, yeah, we get it, man. But there was a line in this where somebody says something about, there's nothing can live in hyperspace. Yeah. And you and I were like, oh, so 100%, there's something that lives in hyperspace. Living in hyperspace. Yeah. What'd we see in crusade stuff living in hyperspace? We called it all the way back in this episode. We were predicting crusade.

[5:53] I'm so glad you, you connected those two things together. You're that something we said here offhandedly doesn't come back. It's a dropped thread, so to speak, but it gets picked up again later on in crusade. That's in any love we can give to crusade. I want to give love to totally. Yeah, it was great. I think that's where James was like, Oh, let's pick up all this stuff I left. And then the network screwed it all up. But one thing that is, I'm going to say here so that I don't say it during the episode itself, because it will come up. But Dylan, this is some great stuff in this one about the universe and how, like, it's just trying to figure our stuff and all that kind of stuff. We're star stuff. Okay. All right. We're the universe just trying to figure itself out sort of a thing. All right. So I quoted the Rush song, Presto, from their own Presto. And so i did i'm doing that here so i don't have to do it there i'm not going to go into all the other stuff that we talked about it's not helpful to our conversation did you though sir did you find anything as you were scouring the web looking through the lurker's guide and other resources did you find anything interesting i had a handful of times had a handful of things um now i have no idea what this means jeff okay okay is it zaha doom no okay no no um i see i know what that means And I don't know why you guys think that we've, we have not heard the name Zaha Doom yet. You're probably right. We've just not.

[7:18] We need to watch while we're watching this episode. I'm assuming Maynard or Maynard is the guest star. Okay. Dude looking over my shoulder. I'm assuming that's who it is. I don't know if that's who it is or not, but we need to be on the lookout for his footwear. Okay. I don't know why. I don't know what it means, but I guess JMS said be on the lookout for his footwear. All right. So let's find out what that means together.

[7:44] I don't know. I don't know. Cool. And in the council chambers chat, we got this hint. That's very early on. So that's helpful. That's helpful. All right. Sounds good. Sounds good. So talking about the hyperspace thing, and I'm glad you said that because that actually makes this make a little bit more sense. I want to quote jms here he says to be filed under the heading of what i does i take the rap for what i does not i doesn't take the rap for which is a phrase i'm going to start using, you know what i mean like like if it's me i'll own it but if it wasn't me i ain't gonna own it that's been a reality in my life here over the last like couple of weeks people trying to blame people that are close to me for stuff that they really didn't do and yep like yes yes anyway so So he says, he says that line. He says, when we discussed the hyperspace accident in our production meeting, Jim, the director, asked if he could do some fratzing and sparking some fire. And I said, I did not want huge gouts of flame. A few small sparks is fine. Maybe some smoke from some components burning out. And the day they happened to shoot that scene, I was over in another facility overseeing a mixdown of another episode. And guess what they did in his absence? Big old huge flames.

[9:03] So whatever we get in this episode is not actually the rules that he set by for what it's supposed to be which is good because i remember what we get in this episode being dumb and not making any sense uh-huh.

[9:14] Um, and in terms of how hyperspace works in this world, because here's the thing, I remember our, our conversation about hyperspace between star Wars and star Trek, those two things specifically, probably some lost in space and some other things. Okay. We, as an audience have been trained for, this is what hyperspace is. This is what hyperspace looks like. And if you're going to create new rules for hyperspace, you have to tell us those rules for your universe. And I, I remember feeling like he didn't, it's just, here's this. And it's like, that's not how hyperspace like, tell me. So that being said, talking about hyperspace, the rules of hyperspace, he says, once you're in hyperspace, you can ride the navigational beams between the beacons, narrow beam stuff. And you cut through the inner interference as noted in this episode. And by correlating the beacons, you have to know where you come out. He says, apparently people were asking like, well, what about this? What about that? he's like that's what you do and that's what i'm saying that's my story and i'm sticking to it that's what he said um he also said so many questions about hyperspace have come up so apparently we weren't the only ones who talked about this so many questions about hyperspace came up in the last year or so we figured that they should be addressed and be assured we're staying clear as clear if technobabble as ever jms buddy a little technobabble is fine like we get it Just, just, just give us something, you know, there is science in science fiction.

[10:37] Yeah. Yeah. Just give us, give us some of the techno babble. It's, it's fine. It's one of the other things that they did for this episode. And I don't know if we want to pay attention to this or not, Jeff, but they remixed the narration and music with the opening sequence. Oh, it's this episode in this particular episode. And it's a lot better. He shifted the placement of some of the lines. Bruce's did a really new, he did a new rendition of it and it's really nice. It carries some weight. so there we go cool yeah now that being said that's the only thing interesting that was said about this episode was people fighting him about the rules of hyperspace and new titles.

[11:15] All right so all i'm saying jeff particularly for our first watch you and i were in good company that's good to know i like i feel vindicated i feel justified i feel hopeful now too because on the first watch people had the same questions we had but then on our first watch everyone like bit our heads off because how dare we so maybe we'll actually see this through a new light the second time around there you go i like it what do you say we find out right now let's do it because That's what happens right here.

[11:45] People, if you're joining us for the first time, hello, thank you for being here to explain how this is going to work. If you've joined us on YouTube, you're going to see an edited kind of cut up version of our reaction. Cause we Brent and I are going to watch this right here, right now, just right down here, a little video is going to come up and it's going to be the episode. If you want to see the full and unedited version of what we're going to watch, you can get that at our Patreon page at patreon.com slash Babylon five first. The number five in the word first and there's a link to that in the show notes and if you're listening to us on the audio podcasting app you are going to hear the audio of that video because we want you to enjoy we want you to join in on the fun as well and then after that we'll have a little conversation about it on the back end so jeff let's watch an episode let's go accessing file repair crews report they'll be finished by 1500 hours good i want to send a message of Babylon 5. Attention of Captain John Sheridan. He's just kicking back.

[12:48] Take this down exactly. Exactly. Because I'm going to call him some names. And it's cool. We haze each other. It's all in good fun. We're bros. Oh, good. She still got the cane. We just received a message for you. From Captain Maynard of the Cortez. It's rather rude, sir. Rude? Unless all your friends call you swamp rat. His his this this communique from one captain to another is written on a transparency it's very futuristic that anyone can read walking by there's one of a red no privacy yeah but she's at least like second in command like drazi walking down the hallway can now read what's on this thing yeah, but it does look very futuristic a long story how many explorer class ships have visited babylon none until now well you're in for a real treat explorer ship coming through the gate commander right on cue.

[13:51] That is a very long long ship see here's the thing so they've got these tubes in between, you would assume you can travel down those tubes to get to the other sections, probably yeah right what if they have trains like on the excalibur Oh. Dude, the soundtrack is working really hard right here. It's a cool-looking ship, though. It is. Impressive. Sharon's like, good look, people. If you're supremely lucky, you may see two ships like her in your lifetime. I believe your friend Stinky has arrived. Swamp Rat and Stinky. I like this scene, the size comparison. Dude, that Cortez is, like, the same size as Babylon 5. Huge. Everybody's talking about the rim. I'm surprised he didn't say quadrant 900. Right. DC Fontana wrote this one. She knows better. My girl.

[15:08] Menard. I do like Tamblyn's coldness with her. It makes a lot of sense. She's... Minbari? Uh-huh. What's the deal? Still trying to figure that out. There's the story she told us, but then the Minbari never tell you the whole truth. Ha-ha-ha. Wow. That's some deep-seated... Racism's not really the right word. Stereotyping. There you go. More going on here every minute of every day than anywhere else I've ever served. But I eat what I want, when I want, and as much as I want. Oh, is this the diet episode? Is it really? It has a great scene in it.

[15:56] We made a comment in this one about how we felt they were trying to shove Franklin down our throats. He's not wrong. Listen, first three words of the word diet. I will be monitoring you closely. I always think you got like little half bottles out on the rim somewhere. You always said you wanted an explorership. Yeah. Well, when the president calls, it's kind of hard to say no. All right. Here's the thing. Okay. I want to say something about that last line too. Well, go ahead. Since that's Lauren talking, then I'm going to come back to what I was going to say. Go ahead. Okay. Kind of when the president calls, it's kind of hard to say no. Fast forward a couple of seasons. Who gives them the biggest no possible right wasn't necessarily easy though all right i i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna talk about this just for a moment this should be your screenshot behind you by the way this is great.

[16:52] That's a great place to pause this video oh yeah nia called it out that's great yeah oh my word uh i i want to talk about this now because if not i'm going to continue obsessing about it for the rest of the episode and that'll be just dumb water bottles okay yeah this is a plastic freaking get it from the gas station right now kind of a water bottle right his face man i can't i can't do it with the face but here's the thing i'm thinking all right you're on a ship you're on a submarine you're going out to the rim you're doing whatever you're going to need drinking water can you really improve upon the water bottle we have today like in 200 years are you really going to make that many improvements to the water bottle you could make one huge one not out of plastic yeah or plastic where toxins aren't leaching into the water over time and it's not made out of fossil fuels or whatever and it's biodegradable and all that sort of stuff yeah weight a better plastic but the design the function yeah it's perfect you can't you can't i mean it even has that little white ring around the top that like breaks the seal from the light and everything like he's not drinking zima paul says no we don't that's the thing we don't know like like i'm i'm a little like guffaw in 200 years you're still drinking a water bottle but i'm also going you can't really get better than that design though i don't think we peaked So it makes sense. It kind of makes sense. I mean, has the design for a water bottle today changed from then? Not really. No, not really.

[18:19] I mean, they make smaller caps now because that wastes less plastic. Sure. That's about it. Funny you should. You know, somewhere there's somebody whose job it is just to design plastic water bottles. I think we're good. Courtesy so they can't complain. Not too much anyway. What about you, Johnny? Johnny? This isn't exactly what you train for. not really what you wanted. Jack, I can make a difference here.

[18:43] I just never figured that diehard spacer like you would wind up tied to a desk. Well, it's a hell of a desk to be tied to. Sounds like a petty shoplifting wave, Mr. Garibaldi. Expect a full report when you've apprehended the thieves. Understood? I thought you wanted to know everything that went on in the station. Everything important, Mr. Garibaldi. I expect you to handle the details in terms of security. That's kind of a weird interaction. He's not wrong. I mean, but think about that interaction in light of what happens in season four. Oh, right? like i now want to i want to track the garibaldi sheridan relationship for the next couple of seasons yeah yeah like how close do they actually get or is it's you know like like they're going to be more than just boss subservient person but not necessarily friends either i don't think so let's let's track that over the next many episodes yeah yeah the only relief i get it when we make a supply stuff how is keffer right for me at a table with these three i don't know who that other dude is but how is keffer at this time and that dancer as i recall uh captain the sheridan yes captain me july 12th uh 22 53 oh forget i said anything.

[19:55] You are the second person in a month to tell me that there's something strange going on out on the rim did your nav officer see it oh he he says he saw a blink change in space you know jeff we were talking a couple weeks ago he doesn't know what it was last week about how they keep like shining lights on this thing but then not answering what it is yeah that feels like what oh here's another thing about the rim look over here but we're not going to tell you what it is it's just going to be weird yep also is it just me or was he literally reading all that off of a cue card possibly like off screen that was i think we postulated this the first time but like dude dude's phoning in a paycheck in this episode yeah there was a there was a look they gave where he's like like this and it just i was like dude that's not even your real face man, yeah but also i i kind of like on the second watch i like them like the rim black on black ship just little these little things where it's not this is a story about the shadows it's like hey this is some stuff also we're seeing this stuff yeah i wonder if it's because we know what's coming yeah we're like come on say it yeah look if it's the credits you're worried about my, Yeah, the time, it's like, too mean. You won't use substitutes, and the real stuff's hard to come by. Ten-pound gain isn't too bad. You could afford to lose it. Here's a list of foods I'm going to do. Oh, is this where we get the gaining weight because he ate fruit, low-fat, lots of vegetables? Yep. Rabbit food. Well, it's only for a little while, Captain. We'll get those ten pounds off in no time. Who's we?

[21:25] Well, a doctor and his patient are a team, Captain. And since we're a team, why don't you do the diet part?

[21:33] I'm gonna say that to my doctor next time i see him i'm not sure i understand i actually kind of like franklin so far in this yeah i have been delegated by others who i can see why if you and i were like yeah franklin's kind of whatever whatever i'm like actually he's i kind of like him right now i'm with you on that like doing his job yeah right yeah yeah he's being he's being a little too zealous with stuff i think right now you know um but he's worried about uh health and their weight and yeah he's taken a proactive approach to it so which is great good on him all right this guy behind delin right now great council member i think so but i don't remember okay to lend there is concern among our people here on babylon five meaning no disrespect they worry that you are no longer one of us i'm more one of us at this moment than i have ever been you can see some hurt for a second and then like stealing her resolve that's great i appreciate your concern there is nothing i can tell you i feel like this is still early dylan makeup this cannot wait like early new dylan we need to understand what yeah like something's off with her eyes and stuff right now is not required only obedience and her eyebrows or lack thereof yes Yes, that is the question. Are you any longer our own kind? We have a right to know. It's the racial supremacy we're starting to pick at. They are so racist here. Give us what we need.

[22:56] We will ask permission to send a representative to speak directly with the Great Council. I am the Great Council. Unless you object. No. No, I have no objections. Is there anything else?

[23:08] A food plan to replenish your system. I'll gain weight. Briefly, yes. Figures. All my life, I've fought against imperialism. Now, suddenly, I am the expanding Russian frontier. With very nice borders. Oh, man. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. He's not wrong. But wow, to say that out loud. You read her autobiography, right? Uh-huh. I just finished it not too long ago. Yeah. Take that scene, the lens of where she was at this point in her life. Great. Now listen, Swamp Rat. You hold this place together, you hear me? I'd like to come back to it.

[23:52] Music. Like, always good to get a visit, and they're clearly on two different places right now. Your area of concern. You know what I mean? Yeah. like it's two friends that used to be locked up and now they're click they're just their lives have split they're in two different places and it's like dude i love you and i'm really glad to see you and i need to get back to my life yeah you here and well he's kind of pulling him down to you know he's like you know come on man this is so cool what's this you're doing and you think about too sheridan starts off with dude this place is great yeah it's awesome and immediately stinky's like i can make a difference here yeah yeah yeah you're right i think he was kind of like Good to see you. Yeah. We may or may not talk about that a little bit more later. The Takati ambassador objects to having the new consular group from Puckmarock warded next to him. I would, too. I would, too. That's not racist. That's just... And that he's downwind of them. Have them swap quarters, and you tell the ambassador that's as upwind as it gets on Babylon 5s or something else. You're going to just make two entire delegations swap quarters? How about you swap the one dude? Ever since the Cortez arrived, you just haven't been yourself. I love Ivanova saying this to him right now. This is a good co-worker. This is a good friend. Yeah. I command starships, Susan, not cities in space. Jack Maynard said this isn't what I was trained for, and he's right. I mean, I am constantly sad that I swamped. This is such a great observation, Brent, about this whole thing.

[23:54] I wonder if there's a little bit of Sheridan that's kind of glad to see him be going. Right.

[25:23] I can make a difference here. I mean, look at this desk. I can't find a thing on it. You know me. Is this me? Huh? Starships run on details. You've always run a tight ship. That's an admirable trait. B-5 can never run in quite the same way. But you've had to settle your share of cruise squabbles in your time, so forgive me for saying this, but it must be something more than just that. Yeah, tell him, Ivanova. Maynard is right. I've been beached. Hardly. Running B-5 takes just as much energy, intelligence, and patience as it does to command a starship. But there is a difference. They have turned me into a bureaucrat, a politician. Oh, just wait. I'll tell you one thing. That's what I was going to say. Think about where that goes later. That someday politicians would come out of the gene pool. They'd have stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea. You should take that and put that on the walls of Congress. Overrated. You're here because the president thought you could handle it. As your executive officer, I have the right to know. Was he wrong? I don't know. What's our ETA on the other side of the... I'm guessing those are all the sparks. Yeah. Emergency power. All the stations report. Flying blind. After we jumped the fusion reactor spikes when it came back online. Thanks for yelling. I mean, I'm right here. There's no way I could have heard that. While he's just standing there, like, looking... Meaning we've lost the luck on...

[26:45] So literally the core function of this ship just stopped no it just didn't work whatever i don't remember if we did or not the first time but watching this and expecting anything but sabotage like this has to be sabotage yeah and it's and it's not well what are we going to do about it you know if what ivanova really needs is the nutrients to replace things in her system yeah that's she should be eating what's in front of sheridan anyway totally she doesn't need to carve up and not a lot of nutrients there a lot of energy This is Cortez. There's been an incident to navigate instruments. No lock-on signal. We are stranded in hyperspace. Lost. Does Bruce Boxleiter look like he has certain makeup on to make him look a little more... Take it off, speaker. Keep recording some other pieces. Like, aunt. Send this response immediately. Your signal has been received and help is on the way. Keep sending that. Yes, sir. I want all available pilots in the squadron bay in 20 minutes. I shouldn't need to remind you. No ship lost in hyperspace has ever been found again. Well, have you seen the size of that ship? Right. How do you lose a ship that big? How are the other men, Bari, reacting to your situation? Fine. They accept this without question? Of course. Of course.

[28:11] So, what is the new delegation about? Do you think she really thought that they would accept it without question? What new delegation? I do. I don't know. I only heard Mr. Garibaldi mention to someone that he was awaiting their arrival. I believe they're called Banya Cauda? Franklin's like that son of a bitch Oh.

[28:31] They had dude at the table with him Because I think he dies in this one Which is how Keffer gets his promotion The commander has reminded me No one has ever recovered a ship from hyperspace But I'm determined to try How far out is she? Unknown We can't pick up a trace of her lock-on signal You'll hit space in five minutes Good luck I'd give anything to be going with them right now So would I I feel like if Sinclair was on the ship, one of them would go. We never hear this talk of the whole thing zeta squadron babylon control this is the cortez lock on still not functioning cortez this is babylon control keep on broadcasting your mayday pulling in on it and sending a sheepdog to lead you home, we haven't spent a whole ton in hyperspace to this point a little bit here and there but.

[29:24] You got the signal warren how did they get a beat on it sir they're not supposed to Call each other by their first names going across comms. Don't they just have, like, call signs or something back and forth? You think, right? Yeah. Like, hey, road dog. What's up, Stinky and Swamp Rat? And, like, what's happening? It's gotten scratchy again, sir. Why don't you take a break? Why don't you? Sir. Sir. I can't. Jack's too old a friend. If this turns into a wake, I want to be here. Is he the one that told you about the Egyptian blessing? He was my first commanding officer. Damn, I thought he knew everything. He did, too. Captain Maynard knows the risks he takes every time he orders the ship out. So if it's awake, I'll drink with you. But until it is, why don't we just remember that blessing? Good for you, Ivanova. This is a great Ivanova episode. Mm-hmm. So... Sheridan's in a moment of doubt of whether or not he's in the right spot and all that sort of stuff, right? Okay, so I'm watching right now to see what's happening here that reaffirms his decision. Okay. And, like, reaffirms him as, like, no, you're in the right spot. Captain! Captain! I do believe that's our sheepdog. Yeah, I just don't, I don't like this guest actor. He don't. I just, I don't, like, any of these guest actors, I don't like them.

[30:44] This is good too because this is where keffer starts his little obsession that he holds back for a long time but where is that something you saw in hyperspace scanning scanning got him, what's going on come on come on figure it out what the hell is he doing what's he shooting at i don't know it keeps firing in the same direction but there's nothing out there There's nothing out there. Except the way home. He's firing in the direction he wants us to go. Can you calculate that? Communication to Star Fury restored. Cortez, get out of here now. Star Fury, this is the Cortez. We can come after you. Do you copy? Av system not functioning. Engine's down. If you come after me, we'll both get lost. Go. Good for Keffer, though. That's the right thing to do. You guys go home. Follow the trail. I'm lost. The plan, the everything. Good for Keffer. As Keffer is moving, because he's not stationary spinning, as he's moving, is he adjusting the shot of his beam? I sure hope to compensate for that. Ships coming through. How many? Three. No, four.

[31:58] Cortez, this is Babylon Control. Where are the other two fighters? I'm sorry, Johnny. They didn't make it. Bam. Okay. Bam the coward. Now, who on the station could pull together the ingredients of Bunya Cowda so far from Earth? Your qualifications precede you, Mr. Orwell. Orwell. Mr. Garibaldi. Mr. Garibaldi. My father always made Bunya Cowda for me on my birthday. Pop was a great cook, and Bunya was his specialty. I knew he was doing it because he loved me. I just couldn't ever say it. And so he did that instead. The conviction he said that was. Not part of him I got left. Well, in that case, why don't you make enough for two?

[32:41] This is an important relationship right there with the two of them. Captain, I can come back if you wish to be alone. No, no. You see the Uncle Steven. I heard the news. Later on. Oh, right. Uh-huh. Yep. We are both, I suppose, going through transition. You know. The universe knows what it's doing. If there's an A plot, B plot between Sheridan's experience and Dylan's experience right now, I wish I had your faith in the universe. They're very matched up. I wish I had your faith in the universe. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Coming to the acceptance. I just don't see it sometimes. Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain. This is great. I love this. Perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station. And the nebula outside burn inside the stars themselves. We are star stuff. We are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out. As we have both learned, sometimes the universe requires a change of perspective. That's where my new theory about why history repeats itself comes from. Because the history, the universe is trying to figure itself out. It's like, okay, learn some stuff, try it again. See what happens. Oh, crap. Still not good. But let's try it again here in a couple 10, 20, 100 years or whatever. Eventually we'll get it right. You make the universe sound conscious.

[33:58] That's kind of what Dylan was saying. We are all the universe. And we're trying to help it figure itself out. We're trying to help us figure ourselves out. That is very good. Who do you think that's good? Well, dessert. Well, now, wait a minute. I didn't authorize dessert. No, then you can't have any. What is it? Doesn't matter. You're not getting anything. I didn't ask you. Let's not be hasty. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Too late. This is great. Ever had a long talk with Ambassador Delenn, Commander? From time to time. Why? She and the universe seem to have a special relationship. Don't we all?

[34:34] Music. All right jeff that is it for a distant star we did it all right i'm gonna give one opening thought, and then i'm gonna let you go okay not as bad as i thought it would be really not as bad as i thought it was gonna be way better this time around than what it was the first time i'm not saying it's a great episode i'm just saying it's not as bad as i thought it would be you go yeah it's just horrible i was bored uh it felt so long like yeah but to your point having listened to our last discussion i don't hate it as much as i did the first time around in fact um i enjoyed the Franklin stuff. Uh-huh. I enjoy, I, I still, the Delenn conversation, the, the, the star stuff and universe thing, that's peak Babylon five to me. That's incredible.

[34:38] Star stuff.

[35:42] But Brett, I, I liked the Kepfer stuff. I think Kepfer came out looking like a, yeah. Like why is he not in more of this show? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it still felt forced having him at the table, you know, with everybody hanging out or whatever, but like, as far as his role is like being a star fury guy, guy's a war hero. Like he's incredible, but yeah, all in all, uh, knowing the fate of Kepfer and everything else that happened, uh, okay. Here's the thing. I was just going to say, I don't think that, I think that if this episode never happened, that would be a detriment to the series. Why? Because of the Dylan stuff, I think, and not just the Dylan stuff overall, but specifically the Dylan and Sheridan stuff. You said it, and I think it was brilliant. They both had sort of this intertwined separate arc of, I felt a way I went through stuff and now I'm handling me feeling another way. Yeah. And that, and that's where I think my opinion of this episode goes up because it's not about stinky and it's not about the Cortez and it's not about hyperspace and it's not about all of that. It's about Sheridan having doubt cast upon his station in life of where he is now. Is he in the rights place? Is he who he really is as a person? Is he doing what he should be doing?

[37:03] Right. And what does he think about it himself? You've got Dillon, who has gone through this big transition. Sheridan's gone through a transition. She's gone through a big transition, very different transitions.

[37:16] One where I think it's pretty clear that Dillon was of the very naive side that the Mimbari wouldn't have a problem with her at all after this. Because in her own mind she is not only still a hundred percent minbari she doesn't feel like she's half human nope she is a hundred percent minbari and she says she's even more minbari now than she's ever been in her in her mind that's where she is so why would they be coming there asking her this really silly question of are you even still a minbari and she's going what are you talking about i'm more minbari now than ever right and so she's now going crap did i do the right thing should i have done this in the first place is this where i'm supposed to be the difference is sheridan can still go to his superiors and get reassigned back to a ship possibly dylan she is what she is she's stuck yeah so i i i love that as a discussion and to come down to the final deal to say where now here's the thing and i want to draw a line here i don't think necessarily that what Dillon says here at the end, this big speech she gives is a message.

[38:34] As much as it is a personal philosophy, not just of Dylan, but probably of DC Fontana, maybe JMS, something of that nature. And we can choose whether to accept that and adopt that as our own. What I, what I am not with is where you are at this time is where you're supposed to be. And so that makes it the right thing. Okay. I don't necessarily agree with that because I think people do find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time or in the wrong place at the right time or in the right place, but at the wrong time, I think all of those things can happen. And just the simple fact that you're there does not necessarily make it right. What I do love, and it's a hundred percent true from a science perspective to the molecules that make up this station or the molecules that make, we are all made of the molecules of the stuff that makes up the universe. Yeah. Right. Like now we're not every molecule that makes up everything in the universe, but nothing in the universe is every molecule that makes up everything in the universe. Exactly. You know, but that, that idea that we are all the universe trying to figure itself out, you know, Jeff, you and I have, have, have made no secret about our personal religious beliefs and where that goes. I might even look at it and go, okay, it's the universe.

[39:54] It's that has a conscience that's actively thinking and doing something it is an intelligence maybe that's what god is yeah is the universe like this thing we call the universe that thing maybe that's what god is well and and i don't know that that flies in the face of faith to put that into scriptural terms uh in the image of himself he made them oh my gosh right i mean it's right there in the very opening of the whole thing is yeah And we take that as, well, God must be a sky daddy, right? Old man with a beard in the sky because we're made in his image.

[40:35] No, it's, it's prior to like really embracing Babylon five. My thought on that was, well, that's our soul, right? Our soul is the part of him that's made in our image, but no, it's the molecules. It's the stuff. I am the dinosaurs, right? You are the, what? Like all of the things. I mean, even if you go down, even if you go down that particular path of that particular faith made from the dust of the earth.

[40:57] Exactly. You know, which I'm trying to think through, like a lot of things are generally made from other things within the earth. Earth of, of various religions throughout there. So yeah, we're all, we're all connected. Yeah. We're all part of the great circle of life. Like, and I think, I think it's pretty ubiquitous across a lot of faiths, you know, in the, in the Christian faith that you and I are familiar with, it's the body of Christ, you know, quote unquote, but there's other, you know, examples. I don't know them, but I know in other faiths, the, the, the idea that we're all part of the bigger hole. Yeah it's pretty common well and and i mean like i know and i'm not i'm not a a expert on buddhism um but if i understand it right the the belief there is is when you die you go on to nirvana basically you're returning to the stars you're returning to the great goo of the universe that is everything like that's that's we that's where we go that's what we're a part of everything and And so I loved your thought, though, of it's the, you know, hey, we're going to repeat some things because we didn't get it quite right the first time around. So let's try it again. Okay, let's try it again. Okay, let's try this again. We're just trying to figure it out.

[42:11] Yeah. It's the universe trying to figure itself out. I love that idea. I do too. Katarina in the chat, you know, we are one. Pope Leo, our current Pope, his motto in English is something like, from one, we are one. Interesting. That's so profound. And I think that's reflected right here in this. And I agree. Not the message, but what a philosophy. And I believe this philosophy gets echoed in Babylon 5. Passing through Gethsemane comes to mind. Yeah.

[42:36] And other ones as well. Yeah. I do love a line, though, that Dillon says. And it really made me stop to think um and and it really comes through this right um if i may dylan has gone through a very literal transition yes sheridan has gone through a positional life change transition but sheridan is still sheridan right um you know i i relate certainly more to sheridan in this particular deal who i am today is not the same brent that existed 10 years ago or 20 years ago i am a different person today just the other day my best friend in the entire world who i see maybe once every four or five years uh came into town him and his family they they stayed we hung out and you know pick things up like we'd never missed a beat you know he was the best man in my wedding like love this guy yeah also he and i are in two very different places of life right now where we used to be in the kind of the same spot you know we're just in two different places of life and and that's okay you know and stinky comes in and reminds swamp rat of what he's all doing and even when he's like i can make a real difference here and he's like yeah but this isn't really who you are and it throws all this doubt into sheridan's mind of like oh my gosh am i in the right spot who am i i wanted to do all this okay you know things i used to want to do jeff.

[43:57] I want to be on tour. Right. I was a standup comedian for a lot of years, had many opportunities to get out and go on tour. Yeah. Right. Things that, I mean, things were moving in a good direction that had I continued to pursue it, things would have continued to, to work, you know, um, certainly in the podcasting world, I've had opportunities and things and, and people that I've been able to meet and interface with and, and things I've been able to influence, to, to change. There's, there are things in life, things that I studied in college are not of interest to me much anymore. Yeah. You know, there are things in life. I am not that same deal. Also I got, I was going to go on tour. You know, what stopped me from going on tour? Huh? I became a parent. Yeah. And you know what happened to me when I became a parent, that stuff that I used to think was really cool. I didn't care about it anymore. It's not that, oh, I I'm pining for it. And I really wanted to do it. No, I actually just didn't want to do it. I didn't want to go on tour anymore. I wanted to be with my kids so I could go to their baseball games and their dance recitals and stuff. You know what I mean? Like that was my desire. And I, I understand when people say, I don't want to have kids because I'm, I have things that I want to accomplish.

[45:17] I'm like, And my experience was when I did finally have kids, My desires changed, right? Yeah. It's not that I didn't get to do the things that I wanted to do. It's my desires changed. And so Sheridan sitting here going, he's a man who has had a transition. I'd make a real difference. I'm in my right spot right here, but I used to be all of this stuff. And my, and now he's questioning, right? So that's, that's the, the scene of where we are. And Dylan comes in and goes, um, there is a pain that comes with being born again. Again what you are experiencing there is the pain that comes with being born again obviously you got to be think of the pain of childbirth in general now it's more of a metaphysical like no when you're going to become a new person there is going to be there is going to be a grieving of that which you've left behind and what you've lost right here's another thing that i'll drop for you that i'm just thinking of right now jeff and you tell me if you've had the same experience Whenever I have left one thing to go to do something else.

[46:16] Whether it's a job, an organization that I volunteer with, a project or whatever, I have never, ever, ever left that spot feeling like I accomplished everything I could have while I was in that position. Yeah, absolutely. There are things that feel left undone. There are things that didn't go the way I anticipated them or wanted them to be, and I really am not done working to correct that. But now i have to because i'm transitioning and moving over yep and there is a grieving process there is a pain to saying goodbye to that and i think what we saw with sheridan he was experiencing that pain that grief finally of that's gone here's where i am now and this is where i'm supposed to be absolutely yeah does that make sense like and i think when we watch this episode that's what this episode's about is watching sheridan come to terms with where he is now he used to be there now he's here and this is where he's supposed to be doesn't mean he can't grieve that and he needs to because we need him here yeah and dylan has made her change and she's coming face to face with the idea that crap i need to be in this spot too yeah she's got to keep going full bore with where she is it's where i am this is what i got to do i don't know about you brent but when i was seven years old i remember writing this down and my mom was like dude that's not a good idea i was like i want to be a babylon five podcaster i've had the same desire my whole life right yeah but No, I think, I think that this was.

[47:39] This whole thing hits so much differently because we know specifically where Sheridan and Dylan end up. I still stand by our first time reaction. Who are these people?

[47:49] And like, they don't know each other. They've, this is like the second time they've even talked to each other. Right.

[47:54] But knowing their journey and where they go this was so critical for them well and i'm sorry jeff just to back that up of what you're saying i forget who said it it's somewhere in our chat with our council chamber someone had said this is where delin and sheridan's relationship start i was like yeah oh yeah i mean and we talked about this is a relationship that is slow building and it's very earned right and here here it begins i was like yeah and you're right this is like their second meeting and you know what this does though too you and i have both gone on a record about how disappointed we are and who Delenn let me rephrase that very disappointed in how Delenn is portrayed and utilized in an episodic standpoint later on in the series specifically series uh season five for the most part for the most part I like this Delenn right we always point to the severed dreams Delenn right he is behind me you are you know that we always point to that Delenn this Delenn this Delenn is the one that goes away we don't get this one yeah we get oh john oh i'm your wife over here being your wife as opposed to well i get it and i'm gonna help you get it unfortunately it wasn't just a lynn because ivanova gets that too, yeah you know what i mean the the ivanova we loved in this episode that we talked about and by the time we get to season four and we see her she's just kind of around you know they lost a lot of steam with them and it's just unfortunate and seeing them here it's it's disappointing but it's also but it's also being able to look back on it and see it man what it.

[49:21] Beautiful story you know and we and again this goes back to that whole here's the difference between the first watch and the second watch you and i are now watching this seeing season five to lynn and sheridan and we're watching it here exactly versus last time we watched this we weren't there yet and so when we experienced this kind of going through we're going who are these two what's going on and but it's such a beautiful story and here's where it starts like yeah exactly but on the first watch i didn't know no had no idea what's we were still wrapping our head around what the heck is going on with this to lend person yeah and they're still trying to clearly figure out her makeup because something's off with that that was not good i agree i was very off-putting yeah, for as hard as we are or were on it later in the series wow it was not good at this point yeah.

[50:11] One more thing uh with all this though jeff before we move on to our next our next bit um is the racial superiority of the mimbari that we talked about oh my god yes right um one of us one of us right um they keep saying are you one of us yeah now i want to recognize the mimbari in a representative representative type situation have the right to be represented by a mimbari right but dylan is really expecting the other mimbari to accept her without question because again, as I said a few minutes ago, she still believes that she's there. She's having trouble understanding and coming to terms with her own people, not even being as, I'm going to use this word progressive as she is. Okay. Right. I think this is a great mirror to society. There are times when we grow and change and have thoughts and we can't believe that other people can't, are just not as forward thinking as we are, or can't think about things in the same way that we think about things. You know, I think that's something we all can probably experience no matter where you are on whatever spectrum that you want to say. We all find ourselves in a spot where it's just hard not understanding how people... It's just hard.

[51:24] Remember that guy with the kids? Right. Nope. While I talk, we all can figure out... We all can relate to this idea that others don't necessarily think about things or understand things the same way that we do. It's mind-boggling to us when you, a person that used to be in the same side of this with me is now like you can't even comprehend what's going on right now yeah and you're not even thinking about and i don't know why you're not thinking about it like that way i think we we all have felt that on some level well i think it's fascinating about that too we we've experienced that just even within our our very tight community and small community of the council chambers right.

[52:01] This is how i see things this is how i see things and they're completely different and and we've had the we have had the honor of hearing that from both you know both uh you know kind of perspectives and seeing where they were and i think it's great and to me that's where uh where we can bridge gaps is when you can hear and when we look at the minbari there was one person throughout all the minbari that we really worked with who took the time to see it from both sides And that person was Naroon, right? Who you wouldn't think ever saw from everything, but he did. And in the moment he did, he literally set Minbari society on the right path. I mean, Delen's the one who grabbed, you know, the reins and moved it forward and made it a thing. But Naroon is the one who gave himself to say, no, I get this side. I get this side. I didn't get this side for a long time, but now I do. And now that I see that you're calling up my heart. Exactly.

[52:55] God, and it all starts here. An awful line. It's an awful line, but, you know, we all cheer. But in the moment. We all cheer. Yeah. How can you not? It's so great. Well, I'm curious, Brent, if you, you, I don't envy you this week, my friend.

[53:11] How's that up to me? It is. Okay. Because we are, as many of you know, unless you're joining us for the first time, we are creating the immutable, objectively correct ranking of all the episodes of season two of Babylon 5 for the second time. And that falls on you this week. I had already for this segment to just name one of the episodes and be like, oh, where's it going to go? But no, I'm going to name them all because our number, we have three so far. And in the third spot, we have Revelations. Number two is the season premiere of Points of Departure. And the number one spot is last week's episode, The Geometry of Shadows. Brent, you have to rank this a distant star. Where's it going? All right. One, it's not touching geometry of shadows. Agreed. that's a correct answer all right then i look at points of departure and i look at revelations and i ask myself which of these three episodes would i want to watch again first and i want to be clear about something.

[54:07] There is a lot with this episode that is to be disliked. There is a lot with this episode. And, and I might even say there is a lot with this episode to be meh Don. Maybe if you don't dislike it, that's fine, but you still don't like it. You're just lukewarm to it. But there's also some stuff in this episode to really like, as I found with points of departure, as I found with revelations. And then there's this episode. But as I look at it, I think I can deal with Stinky and Swamp Rat and receive the beauty of the Sheridan and the Lynn story and a great Ivanova episode.

[54:45] Yeah, very good. Even a holy crap. Keffer is actually kind of cool in all of that. And I can let that other stuff go more than I can stand seeing Sheridan crying for a while. So Jeff, this is going to become our new number three. Oh my God. This is going to be our new number three. it's wow i don't know where these two episodes wound up in our first ranking but this one's going above revelations i don't know that it's going to hit points of departure for me although i think there could be an argument maybe possibly but i'm going to put it right at number three what's incredible about this is in the first time ranking and in number 20 yeah we had revelations okay in 21 a distant star if this winds up with those two just flip-flopped because i'm pretty sure we know what 22 is going to be and it's going to stay um by hook by crook it's gonna stay uh if those two wind up just being flip-flopped fair yeah fair but this episode again the rewatch has elevated this episode for me quite a bit agreed isn't that wild i mean but it's still not a great episode yeah like yeah and suzanne says i love sheridan or avon of a calling sheridan on his stuff and being like, Hey, uh, president put you here. Cause he thought you could handle it as your first officer. I need to know if he was right, right. Or wrong. Yeah. Cause I got to do something here.

[56:07] What's it going to be? All right, Brett. That does it for a distant star. You gave a beautiful segue. Our past number 22 and likely we'll continue on number 22 where we shall see. We've been surprised so many times this season already, but we're watching the long dark.

[56:25] Yeah. Next week. Yeah. Hey, you know, the great thing about watching the long dark next week. Uh, what's that? Once we have watched it, we will be done with it. I never have to come. Like it's not in front of us. It will be behind us and we don't have to come back to it again. Maybe we'll love it. Maybe we'll see it through new eyes. We'll talk about what we thought of it. Now we think of it next week, but this week, Brent, we used to play a game where we would guess what the episode was going to be about based on the title alone. Do you remember what you thought the long dark was going to be about? I believe my thing was the long dark was actually just the last three episodes because they haven't been great. Now, that was my first spot around when I was like, Geometry of Shadows was weird. No, Geometry of Shadows was a great episode. The other ones, yeah. My exact phrase, though, was I have no idea, but once we get to the end of the episode, we'll exactly know why it was called the long dark. Like, it won't be mysterious. It'll be defined. Here's why it's the long dark. And that's debatable. It is. I thought this was going to be a classic sci-fi trope where they're holed up probably in brown sector for a period of time. They're trapped, weathering a storm or something like that. And they're going to have to each face their, their personal demons facing their, their own personal long dark.

[57:45] That basically what you just described, isn't that like the day of the dead episode? Sort of. Yeah, it sort of is. It's a classic sci-fi. It works. It works. You just get kind of cool on it. Well, I'm excited. Oh, I don't know. I am eager to see how we, uh, enjoy this episode next week. And you all can join us right here. Be a part of the new discovery, the rediscovery of the long dark. Thank you for being here as we rediscovered a distant star. Please comment down below. If you're on YouTube, I'm sure people have a lot of thoughts and have been commenting throughout this thing, like subscribe, do all the things that you need to do. But please, please, if you find the calling of your heart is to serve, please, please share this show. We love it when we see people sharing this show. It makes a real difference, and it means the absolute world to us. So, Brent, I'm going to wrap it up. Until next time. Hey, Jeff. Yes, Brent. What's up? What's up? You know, this episode actually was pretty good. I mean, yeah, but like seriously? I mean, yeah. Like I might watch it again someday. Yeah, man, that's a load of horse hockey. Indeed.

[58:55] Music.