Babylon 5 For the Second Time | Season 2 Wrap Up, Bloopers, and More

[0:00] You can only watch it for the first time once. It'll be interesting to see what we catch and what we don't. Have you ever played the video game Mass Effect? This is where Babylon 5 is becoming Babylon 5. That was great. I love that. 100% completely accurate, definitive ranking of Babylon. I love it so much. We're officially into it, Jeff. The year is 2025. The name of the podcast, Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. And my name is Jeff Akin. Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters, and then we watched Babylon 5 for the first time, and everything changed. So we've been watching this incredible series for the second time, catching all the cool stuff that there's no way we could have found the first time around. That's right. And we have just finished season two of Babylon five, watching it for the second time. But Jeff, buddy, we got to call an audible. We got to press pause. Okay. And we've got some unfinished business. We got to take care of. We're not doing, I thought we're doing matters of honor. We're not going to do that this week. Not today. Okay. Then what's up? What are we doing tonight?

[1:18] Well, here's the thing. We used to do a thing on our first watch that we made it. You and I made a conscious decision to not do it on the second watch. We did. Yeah. I think I know what you're talking about. The first watch at the end of every season before moving on to the next season, we would have a season wrap up where we'd go back through. We'd revisit our ranking. We'd just kind of sum up and just kind of take a breath and absorb the season we had just experienced. And, and just take, take that as a breath before moving into the next, the next chapter. And you and I decided we're, we're going to do that for this one. We were just, um, moving through, I'm going to move through, which is why we just moved through from season one to season two, but our community as a whole, that's our YouTube folks, our audio folks, our Patreon in particular, our council chambers, they've told us they've missed it and they really wanted it back. And they've given us some home, our council chamber specifically, which is one of our tiers on Patreon and they really help influence the show in many, many ways. And they gave us homework, Jeff, homework that we can't do within the regular format of the run of our show. So we've got to press pause and take care of some of this business here, my friend. Okay, okay. No, I'm down. And I think if we're going to kind of take that pause in that moment, I've got some stuff that...

[2:40] You got some stuff to throw in. Because one of the things we've got to do, and we didn't get to do this the first time around. We're going to watch some bloopers. Oh, my God. They have been beating us up for so long. We're going to watch the bloopers. Yeah. Even the first time, they're like, you've got to watch these bloopers. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So we're going to watch some bloopers. So, yeah. We'll add that in. What are you thinking? What else do you got? Well, we talked about it last week on the follow-up night a little bit, and I think we should. But we were going to talk about the rankings, right? Season two for the second time compared to the first time and what oh that's a good idea yeah so we can dive into that a little bit so yeah yeah that'll be good this will be fun and you know listen i if it's not too much something i wouldn't mind is i'd love to hear i'd love to hear from from our listeners that's something we don't get to do a whole lot anymore yeah you know back on the show so i don't know if there's anything we can do to work that in jeff maybe, maybe we do but first first up uh let's do some bloopers yeah you got them ready i got them ready Oh, sweet. Okay, cool. We can roll right into it. Let's do it. Well, let me ask you this before we dive in. Okay.

[3:45] We've had people send them to us. We've had, I mean, this has been for years. People have been encouraging us. Have you watched any of the bloopers? Okay. So, well, first of all, shout out specifically to Ben, who has been the guy leading the charge. One of our council chambers, Ben, a great guy. Yeah. Awesome. Has been truly leading the charge. And he has, he's probably sent these to us like a couple, three or four times. Easily. Yeah. And so Ben, this is for you, pal.

[4:13] But shout out to him. But I have only watched them in as much as like I had to download them and just test them to make sure like audio worked. Okay. Jeff, I will give you a heads up, and I'm going to give all of you watching a heads up and probably the audio folks as well. These aren't going to be an easy watch. The quality of this, it's not polished for broadcast. This was only like whatever raw footage they took. Off the dailies kind of thing. Yeah, and it's like negative warping in the middle of it and all sorts of weird stuff. So it's not an easy watch, but it still should be. Hopefully it's funny. I don't know. If this sucks and you and I are like bored out of our minds through this, we're going to blame Ben. Totally, yeah. Let's do it, man. Let's watch his bloopers. Let's do some bloopers. For the audio folks out there, we're just going to let this play. Yep. I don't know that we have to worry about all the, the stuff's we'll see. Yeah. I imagine that, uh, we'll, we'll see what happens if for, for YouTube and for audio, we may edit out the, the, the breaks in this stuff. I don't, I don't know how copyright applies to bloopers. Yeah. I'm not sure. But, uh, one or the other audio, you will hear something, something and it will be interesting. So, all right, let's jump into it. Let's do it. Okay.

[5:41] I thought this was a 90s show not an 80s show, i feel like for the audio folks i need to like describe what's happening but i don't know whoa somebody's blowing up somebody's skirt here, thank you oh we should mention, this is going to be the warning for sensitive ears this is apparently not like it's it's we can have an explicit tag on this one we might like i i don't know i haven't listened to it all he just said the s word but this is this is not scripted stuff so this is just what people are saying i've never produced a podcast with the explicit tag on it before listen we get to choose if we want to put it on there or not. We do, we do. But this is the warning for folks with littler ears in the car or people watching at work or something of that nature. Yeah, that's good. So for the audio viewers, you're just saying we should explain what's happening. This is like the intro to the blooper, I guess. It was like a music video thing and they were just showing some clips that went along with the music. Yeah. It was pretty funny. Now we have Ivana that looks like she's up. What a slother of almost slover. Actor? I'm not an actor.

[7:07] They were full on bumping into each other Look at that Leaping over chairs They got crew members going through this They're literally just like Go nuts We had a little problem with satan, I didn't think of that. Great idea. You're dismissed. Roll credits. It's always funny to watch him laugh in those big serious scenes. Sorry. I do not understand. Oh, and I do not remember the line. Oh, pretty Ivanova. Some human style coming. And it is interesting to like, we just watched these episodes. Like, I'm like, oh yeah, I know that episode. Oh yeah, I know that episode. Okay. 30 quarts. Hmm. I feel like there could just be a whole line of Bruce Bauxite and we're going, hmm. Right. That's all wrong. Heavy weighs the crown. Did you hear that? Oh, huh? No, stop. It's Peter Juricic in his real voice with his Londo makeup on. Like, listen to him. That's all wrong. That is all wrong.

[8:19] What? What? Here we go. I'm ready, go. What did he just say? I think we heard what he said. Action. Captain, have you gone space happy? Let's go. Just think of getting it chubby. What? A whole new definition of space happy there, I guess, Jeff. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, Brent, this is getting the explicit tag. I'm just going to say it now. We're doing it. Here we go. I'm ready. Go. Action. Captain. Oh, fuck it. This is why they have five and six day shooting schedules. Oh, shit. Fuck. Fuck. God damn. God. You want a bagel? Yeah. They could deliver it to safe zones in the Narns. Narns. Narns. Do it like Elvis. Thank you very much. If I come back, right, Jim. Ramirez, go. Lieutenant Ramirez, you're going to die at the end of this episode. You need to pick up your check now. Yeah, I'll be right there.

[9:16] That was great. Oh, I have some of that good fattening crap. Would you believe they did this whole scene in one take with no group of... You are having far too much fun at my expense. Which is nuts. Nice butt. Getting a wordy, huh? Silence.

[9:37] That was fun. That was fun. I'd said it during the thing. This is why they have five and six-day shooting schedules, right? Right. Because it takes a while to get it out. But I noticed a thing.

[9:49] Um as they quest a lot and they talked about getting very excited space happy we should say here's the like i've done not a fair i've done a little bit of tv in in my in my time and a hundred like you'd literally turn into a 12 year old the whole time that camera's running which is the worst time right to be a 12 year old but i mean it's ridiculous but you can totally tell their comfort level with each other like yeah like as the the season progresses and the bloopers go on like there's definitely bruce box lightener like i'm friends with you people ha ha ha right and then like he actually is kind of friends with them and stuff jeff guess what that's not the only blooper video oh yeah another one that was apparently that was a blooper video that they made like for their christmas party it's like there was okay there was another one they made for their season wrap up for like for the production season wrap up so these are like it's a little bit shorter it's a little bit shorter than the last one but these are like official blooper reels then i guess i i'm assuming they may they showed these at their parties like that's that's the impression that i get i cannot confirm ben probably knows he was probably there for heaven's sakes all right um but uh i've been holding crystal of these three for years yeah let's watch the next one it's it's it's this this next one is about seven minutes.

[11:09] It's just a bunch of bloopers of them smiling. That's cool looking. I think that's fun. Yeah, this one might not make the cut. It comes back here in just a moment. All right. Lita. Who be Lita? Who be Lita? The bitch. I live delirious. Michael. Attach homing beacon and do something else. Foolish. And when I get there, I'll have done it with... Everybody. Oh. Penny. If that's true then whoever tried to kill her probably doesn't even remember trying to do it and that wasn't even close to the line so we'll do it again one more time okay, boy i bet there was supposed to be a data crystal in this really small pocket down here, and they show no indication that he was suffering from any kind of medical man name my problems there are days when they are a pain in the deck no a pain in the what's a tegnum there are days when they are a pain in the dick. Why am I gonna have this trouble? They are a pain in the dick. Fuck it. You don't want us to board that... Is he supposed to be saying pain in the neck? Neck or deck plate, maybe? I don't know. Yeah, like is it a pain in the neck, but it's something that begins with a D and he's supposed to change it a little bit for the script? I don't remember where that would have been in the season. It doesn't ring a bell for me at all. Yeah. Yeah. However it was. There are other rituals we must observe. I want to start again. Flarne.

[12:36] 100%. Mira Furlan never had a funny blooper. Right? It's like she's so professional in how she's messing up and everything. And like even in her messing up, it's just – I'm sorry. Let me try that again. That's it. Like there's no – she doesn't get frustrated. There's just – she's so like meek about the whole thing. Or she stops and just gives the most charming smile. She's like, I don't know. I just messed up. There's only one other person that I can think of that probably has never actually had a blooper in her entire career. That would be Julie Andrews. Yeah, you're probably right. You know like even if she gets a line wrong it's she's so sweet about it and you can't you can't even laugh at it it's just they oh shit shit son of a bitch now if he if he's heard oh shit, hayley did i have uh this steven spit on me at this point that's weird that's weird the voice with him to camera i can fuck up all i want honey.

[13:39] I love you, Steve Cameron. Then we have no choice. Alert all ships. That's great. V... VF. VF bloopers. I love it. Oh, fuck. If you can tolerate the answers. How can it be unauthorized? According to Earth's central records, he is supposed to be dead. Look at him. A dead man.

[14:08] I did. I did say that.

[14:16] Bringing it home cut print cut print hey brent you said mirror ferland's so professional in her bloopers did you notice who just didn't make any bloopers andreas katsulas yeah jakar was literally there just because they're like we should probably show him and we should probably put him in there somewhere yeah dude's a constant he's like i don't make mistakes at all they had him in there one time going and like that was it that was it yeah guys a pro that was a lot of fun I'm glad we got to watch it. Do you have any more? Or is that it? No, no, that's it. That's it for season two. Someday you and I should go back and watch season one. But today is not that day. It is not. That's a lot that we watched. It was a lot of fun, though. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. That's a lot of fun. You know, with a show like Babylon 5, it's a heavy show, right? Like, deals with big stuff. And to see them having a good time doing that is, I don't know. It's good. I like that. And you said something during the middle of that that I thought was not astute, not profound, almost just relieving.

[15:16] You can really see the relationships of the people through those bloopers that you don't see necessarily on screen through the cameras. Yeah. And specifically with people who are not necessarily also on the DVD cover. Ramirez was awesome. Right. You know, the dude, the other Mimbari guy that was, like, really close to Bill Mooney's face, you know, and it's talking about the head bone carving and all that sort of stuff. Like, you know, you can imagine some of these people were probably –.

[15:47] Actually much better actors than what we give them credit for yeah i i was really impressed with jerry doyle and just like he was so comfortable and oh yeah yeah i don't think he had any errors about him everyone else had like a little layer of i'm at work uh-huh not him right which um i'm not gonna armchair or anything but we do understand that he was facing this was his first like real acting gig though from everything i also understand Yeah. It was like his first professional acting gig. Oh, wow. So he didn't come in with the gravitas of having a show before or anything like that. That's cool. But also he might have had a little help out there. Yeah. I'm thinking. That was fun. Glad you brought him. Yeah. What do you say, Brent? We dive into some analytics on our rankings. Because you have analytics?

[16:44] What kind of analytics, Jeff? This is fascinating to me. How did you, what did you do to analyze these things? So... I actually have a deep background in data analytics, and so I put a spreadsheet together, and I ran. I put some VLOOKUPs and some... It actually makes so much more sense knowing the behind-the-scenes stuff that you do for this show. Right. Go ahead. Well, the truth is I do have a background in data analytics, but I utilized AI to do this one. That actually makes way more sense now. Yeah. I, I, I honestly, I started, I started building this comparative spread and I was like, oh, I'm going to, and then I'm like, why would I do that? We have AI to help with these things.

[17:30] So I just want to acknowledge that when you utilize artificial intelligence, there are substantial environmental impacts. And so I just want to own that that happened on with the program. All right. We talked about it while we were doing the rankings, but we had some pretty substantial moves. Do you have a guess brent as to which episode single episode had the biggest change from our first time to our second time oh man see i would this is where i need a list of the episodes hold on let me look let me look i got them right over here um i immediately know that geometry of shadows is one of them it may not be the one but it is one of them yeah i'm one with geometry of shadows just as a whole was knives really it dropped 11 places oh no it was number 10 in our first time it dropped to 21 21 which how many places did geometry of shadows move that went from number 15 to number five it had a change of nine spots so you were you were not far off by any means. Okay. Uh, also a change of nine places was divided loyalties. Really? It was number seven in our first time and came in at 17 on our second time. Wow. As far as getting like improved, bigger.

[18:55] What do you think the largest increase was? And I'll give it this way. The biggest increase was actually the largest overall change.

[19:04] And it wasn't geometry of shadows. It was not. In fact, this one changed 12 spots. I'm going to go with now for a word. You're correct. Okay. It was a good episode, man. I 100% know why people would have listened to our first time around about that and seen us put it so low. And then been pissed off at us because it is a good episode which we said at the time it's a good episode we just didn't need it which i still stand by that right that i stand by that analysis before but it's just a good episode we have different criteria for a second watch because it's the it's a series you get to watch for the first time twice it's very different both times it was interesting that um our we're almost like a sandwich right where we had the same bread but the fillings changed uh the the the everything in the middle changed long twilight struggle was our top choice both times and the long dark was our number 22 both times neither one of those two shocked me yeah at all right yeah but two of them that where where did what was the change on comes the inquisitor because i see it ending at number nine so comes the inquisitor right was yeah was our number nine and it was number 14 the first time around so just a change of five sure what It's still substantial. I was going to say, it's still a significant jump, but still.

[20:27] Yes, there is that. It had an interesting analysis on divided loyalties. It talked about how modern TV is full of twists.

[20:38] That's what we watch all the time. And it gave divided loyalties the title of twist fatigue. And that maybe as viewers of modern television, we've kind of had enough of this like, oh, it was this all along. And it didn't listen to our episode, obviously, just in its analysis of the raw data. That was just like. Divided Loyalties was the one with Evil Talia, right? Yes. Yeah. So I thought that was kind of interesting. But I, for one, am quite interested to see what happens in our future seasons. I think my prediction for this is season three is huge. So much happens and there's both build and payoff. Whereas in season four, it starts to become more of, well, here's all the stuff we've been building up to, playing out. And so my prediction is that we'll see some impactful changes in the third season, but seasons four and five will probably, probably land pretty close to what we had the first time around. See, I was just thinking the opposite. Really? Were you thinking season three is probably going to stay the same season four and then season five, even more, we'll have more changes, um, kind of similar to this. And I think it'll be like a bell curve. Like, cause I bet if we go back and we look at season one season one also had a lot of changes it did season two's gonna have a lot of changes three won't and then you know it'll bell curve itself out we'll find out yeah over the next.

[22:04] Several months. Right. Year and change, whatever that is. So go through and do all that. That's interesting, Jeff. You know something we haven't done in a long time, Brent? What have we not done in a long time, Jeff? We haven't shared any reviews. Are we going to do that? We are. We are.

[22:20] And we're not going to share all of them that have happened because we're already on our raw record. We're already almost up to an hour. So we're not going to do all of them, but I have a couple that I'd love to share. Is that cool? Let's do it. All right. So I went, I love that you can listen to podcasts on Audible. We've talked about it on our first time thing. It makes us feel like authors, like, you know, we're a thing.

[22:43] Just Some Fool on Audible gave us, Brent, a five-star review. Oh, yes. Just Some Fool. Wow. That's been a while. I know, right? I actually had to look and be like, do I still have the drop? Okay, good. All right, well, Just Some Fool says, I hate podcasts like this. Aw. But I love this podcast series. There we go. I decided to put this podcast on as background noise because I've seen Babylon 5 enough times that I figured I wouldn't find this podcast very interesting. I also picked this genre because I don't like this genre of podcast. I need a background noise and figured this would be the perfect one to put in the background and ignore. They said, we need a laundry episode. Let's throw this one on. Right. I just need something that's kind of there. Right? I said, this would be perfect to put in the background and ignore, and I was so wrong. Nice. I not only ended up paying attention to it, but I got pulled in and binged it. I'm not finished as of the time I'm writing this review, but Brent, I've been listening to almost 10 episodes a day. What? Since starting. What? Oh, God bless your heart. Are you okay? Blink twice if you need help.

[24:06] That's way too much Jeff and Brent. Although awesome, but still. Wow. That's so much. Well, Just Some Fool, thank you. You're awesome. And I'm really, really glad you're enjoying the show. And hopefully you're going to catch up to us here on The Second Watch very soon, and you'll hear this.

[24:29] I'm glad we could provide that for you. that's really cool man that's super cool i figure at that rate they caught up in about a week and a half so like wow hey brent how about another five star review oh yes this one's from apple podcast caps fan 30.

[24:48] I guess a fallout fan says pretty short says fun to watch along. You guys are making B five fun all over again. I hadn't rewatched in a long time, but going through it with you guys for both the first time and the second is fun just to see what you guys thought the first time you guys watched it. That has been probably the biggest booger to us doing the second watch, but was absolutely the right thing for us to do is having to go back and we listen to our first watch so we can interact basically with ourselves and we can now be on the side of everybody else yelling at first watch jeff and brent i know you know um but uh yeah yeah thank you i'm uh yes i agree it's something to go back and and see and that's that was that was the point of the second time because we knew the first time around we weren't understanding or catching things the way we needed to so i think that's a key thing especially heading into this next review i'm going to share uh because we're not just we're not here just to blow like our oh look how great we are we're gonna we're gonna share if you if you put it out there you know we're gonna find a way to write it well yeah we'll do it sure.

[26:00] Babylon 5 for the first time specifically is a journey.

[26:05] And we've talked about how the story of Babylon 5 for the first time is not Babylon 5. It's Brent and Jeff and how we started in a place and we went to a place. And for those that stuck around, those that held on and are here for the second time, like CapsFan30, are really getting that payoff. And I think that, and Brett, with your experience doing Beam Me Up, a Star Trek podcast with your co-host there, Matt, got to experience this in real time. But as longtime fans, we have a tainted view of our first time. And when someone goes and actually watches it unspoiled for the first time, we don't understand that experience they're having. And some people understand that to some level or are hooked in some way that they continue to listen and watch with us and see us grow. Other people don't get it and they drop out. And, Brad, that leads me to the third review I want to share. Okay. Which is a three. This feels ominous. Three star. It's a three star review from Apple Podcasts. This is a very long one. And so I'm going to pare it down. It's still relatively long. Okay. Um, but Magnus prime 24. Okay. He starts with, it says to start with the positives, which I appreciate. You can tell this was made by people with experience podcasting. Check two hosts have a good rapport. Check the sound quality is consistently good. In fact, the editing is almost invisible.

[27:34] You want to know why? Because we don't edit. Right? Very little. Very little do we edit. We hate editing. Podcasts die in the editing chairs. Exactly. This is the blast that we're doing here. And then you're like, oh, no.

[27:47] Yeah. Yeah. So we get it right the first time. We strive to get it right the first time. Measure twice. Cut once. Yeah. Where the show stumbles a bit is in its premise and execution.

[27:59] Oh, okay. So I'm going to say Magnus Prime 24 in this next line. His premise or their premise of our podcast is where he where they got it wrong so the idea of comparing babylon 5 to star trek is fine but trying to judge its quality by that metric doesn't work brent did we ever compare babylon 5 to star trek yes we did you're right we did yes we did absolutely we did did we intend to do that no we did not um because but but we didn't know what we were saying exactly like i think you and i knew what was in in our hearts of what we were trying to go for but the words because we we would say we're going to see if this has any of that star trek equality we're going to compare this to star trek and see where that is and and i would i would actually agree with magnus that that trying to judge babylon 5 by that metric doesn't work didn't work even and it didn't work which is why we stopped doing that by mid season two yeah early season two like somewhere around there like and and they stuck around long enough to get that a little bit they say uh the host took a long time to realize this but i think many b5 fans looking for a chance to relive the series will walk away frustrated before the hosts get there i can i can understand that i really can so i can and i reflect back to what i said leading into this review.

[29:25] We were all there at some level our first time. Absolutely, we were. And the other thing too, Jeff, and this is where I will defend our actions and not apologize for it. Jeff, this is where I will defend our show and not apologize for anything that we did. One of the things that you and I both know is the listeners out there, you guys, are incredibly smart. And you can smell BS from a mile away. And Jeff and I could not come in here pretending to be something we were not. And who were we when we started the show? What were you doing? What other podcast were you doing? Star Trek podcast. What other podcast had I just wrapped, literally just finished doing? Star Trek podcast. That's who we were. That's where we were. That's the space we were in. And that's what we brought to the show.

[30:18] And as you said the story of Babylon 5 for the you know we talk about that the story Babylon 5 is actually the story of Londo Malari yeah the story of Babylon 5 for the first time is not the story of Babylon 5 it's the story of Jeff and Brent yeah and we started in a place we ended in a very different place yeah yeah and in between there was ups there was downs there were swerves there was things there were places where we pissed you off there were places where you cheered and patted us on the back and everything in between apologies jeff it's all right daytime records i i very specifically said dogs need to go away they go back into their rooms they because they can't handle somebody coming to the door or something like that like like they just can't do that amazon gets delivered kid comes over for put them back in their rooms they're fine but people got to them out just let them run and whatever and you know we have we have a night time we have a night shift worker here in the house and that needs.

[31:18] To not be woken up in the middle of their day. Well, and as we do this right now, almost at the end of their sleep schedule, you know what it is when you get woken up an hour before you're supposed to wake up, you know how much that pisses you off and you can't go back to sleep. And that's, that's, it's not just disturbing us up here, which it is, which also not okay, but no, can't do that. Can't do that. So sorry for that. Sorry for that folks. Anyway, I think I was done with what I was saying. Yep. Great. They go on to say, Sometimes their outside perspective is a strength, such as in their review of TKO. Like many Babylon 5 fans, I didn't enjoy that episode at first, but this show's take on it helped me see it in a new light. Victory! And as a fellow Christian, hearing the Catholic host praise passing through Gethsemane was rewarding. That's you, Jeff. Oh, I thought, okay. Cool. He wraps by saying, The technical aspects are solid. But occasionally the hosts offer some unique insights. But this is where I think their review goes off the rails. And they're closed. But instead of reconsidering their preconceptions when the show proved it wasn't going to fit them, they kept judging it negatively for not fitting them. Yeah, and that's where, one, you didn't listen to the show long enough and go through the whole rollercoaster ride. And kudos to those of you who did because as Jeff and I can now attest going through the show, it's often not easy.

[32:44] But like Babylon 5, putting up with the slow parts are worth it and pays off for the other parts. But you're absolutely right. As fans, and this is not unique to Babylon 5, to Star Trek, this is fandom. One there's this magic thing called group think yeah that the fandom as a whole just we all agree that these things are truths we hold them to be self-evident and they're endowed by our creator and anyone who says anything differently is wrong and stupid and a big dum-dum and then there's the person watching it for the first time and you're right we don't we often don't remember our first watch and a lot of times we even lie to ourselves well i on my first watch i knew exactly what that was and i put that together and i knew exactly where we were and you know what there's probably some people who really did the vast majority of us no.

[33:40] And you and I promise to be true every time. And, and, and that's the other thing. Cause you know, the other one we got a lot was just stop talking about it. Just watch the show. I was like, then we wouldn't have a show podcast. Like our job is to pause every 45 minutes and take a snapshot of where we are. Yep. That's all. And that's each episode. That's all it was is, Hey, in this moment, here's where I'm feeling. In this moment, here's what I'm, here's my experience. In this moment, here is my experience. That's all it is. We had quite a few members of our council chambers. We get to interact with them quite a bit, which is cool. Like Katerina, Delenn, Alyssa, a couple others have talked about how through our first time watch, this show changed us. Like we are, you and I are different people than we were before we watched this. The show, so back to Magnus here, the show never changed. We did.

[34:35] Yes. Despite their last line saying that we chose not to change. No, we, we changed. Yeah. And that's the power of Babylon five. Yeah. And if I may, Magnus, if you're listening to this, thank you for your review. Absolutely. And thank you for your snapshot of where you were in the moment that you were listening to us. Hopefully you have gotten to, to, to see the rest of it. And maybe you can come back to this review and be like, I was right then, but that review doesn't hold true for the end. Yeah, just like we stand by our first time thing, now we listen to it. How often have we come in on the second time and been like, oh my God, I was so mad at us.

[35:13] So yeah, thank you, Prime Magnus. Everything you said is correct for you, and I truly appreciate you sharing it very much. Yeah, we never anticipated that everybody would just be like, everything they do and say is absolutely right. We wouldn't be doing our jobs if that was the case. Why are you podcasting if that's the case? No, it's come in, be true to where you are, be true to your experience, and feel something. Do you have any more, Jeff? I just want to share. I mean, obviously, we've taken quite a bit of time. And we're going to find ways to share more. I want them all. I want them all. Okay. I miss this, Jeff. Yeah. So I'm going to put this out as a call, right? So the majority of our, or a good chunk of our viewership is on video, streaming YouTube and Patreon and other places. We still have a substantial audio community out there, which is great. But get those reviews in on the audio side so we can pull them in. Well, and it doesn't just have to be the audio side. You can email us a review. Just say review in the thing. You can put it on Google. You can put it on Reddit. Now, you're going to have to draw our attention to it because we're not seeing all of those things.

[36:23] But wherever you are, leave a rating and review however you do that. And Jeff and I would love to be able to grab that. Yeah. Cross our hearts and hope to die uh we're gonna figure out a way yeah more more on that to come and not another time i hope so jeff i've got something you have something else you got reviews i got something else okay okay now listen leading up to this we sort of fished from some stuff from our patreon community yeah we check in and i'm gonna read some of the comments that we got from our patreon community they had some questions back for us okay okay all right so let's jump into this Um.

[37:02] Robert asks, after going through them a second time, do you still think of the, do you still think of the first two seasons as being the usual weaker stuff until they found out how the series works? Or do you view it more as an actual setup for what is to come, especially in seasons three and four? Do you still consider the first ones pun intended to be weak seasons? I think that's a great question. Yeah. The last piece. No. And I don't think we considered them to be weak seasons the first time around.

[37:35] We considered them to be weaker than the others.

[37:39] But better than normal 90s sci-fi early seasons although the first season was and really the first season and a half was rough very rough yeah I'm trying to find but the highlight episodes of those seasons, were as strong as any episode of any part of the show. Agreed. Yeah, I think I definitely have a different view of the first two seasons on the second time. I know season one in particular, I have a much stronger appreciation for than I did the first time. Yeah. In season two, we were aggressively hard on it the first time around. I still understand why we were, but as we listened to ourselves talk about it, man, I got so... I got angry at us at points. We were so hard on it. I definitely see it differently now. I do still think of the first two seasons as being the usual weaker stuff before they find out how the series works.

[38:36] I think in many ways they were still finding their way. And proof positive of that, JMS was having a bunch of different writers write the episodes. Right. And it took him a season and a half before he said, you know what? Stop this. If this is going to work and this is going to fulfill this vision that I've had, it has to be me. I have to – no one else can do this but me. As proof, he only allowed one other episode in the entire run of the show. It wasn't until the very end of the show allowed somebody else to come in. And that was like because it was hero worship for JMS. Pretty much, yeah. Right?

[39:11] So, yeah, I do think the first two seasons are weaker, that they were still meandering trying to figure stuff out. I do think that they were stronger than your typical 90s sci-fi. Not as strong as the first two seasons of Stargate. Agreed. But as far as comparative to any other star, any of the 90s Star Treks, yeah, it was there.

[39:33] I thought Enterprise had a really good first season, but that's a different topic. I agree, but that's not the popular opinion. No, no, but that's a different topic. But also you could argue that Enterprise season one was not the first season. Enterprise season one was, let's hear, 7, 14, 20, was the 22nd season of Star Trek in that era. It had some practice. Yeah. yeah um but i also also robert do see seasons one and two as setting up like.

[40:05] Intricately setting up for seasons three and four in fact jeff you and i both tell people when we're talking about the show to other folks the first couple seasons might be a little rough but you have to watch them for what you like you need what happens there to really get what's going on later yeah you know or just start it and now for a word and go and just go from there because they in a not actually that actually is the is the that's that's the bypass you know that's that's really i think i almost think i should change my answer for that trivia no you should you i was just thinking that just going to be on a trivia show where one of the questions what's the what episode do you introduce people to it's it's and now for a word it is because once you get there then you can go it yeah so when we came into this record i thought we were going to be doing matters of honor and so i was prepared um so i'm going to take one of my little things so i we We look through the scripts of Babylon 5, and there's a lot of insights into the episodes that come from this. Which, by the way, we can read these now. We couldn't. That was the other thing. You and I, the first time around, were in such a bubble. And again, thank you to everybody who helped keep us in that bubble. We were in such a bubble that we, by our own design, did not have access to stuff that even the first original viewers of the show had. Yeah we didn't we didn't because of of the way we had had put ourselves into this bubble which is really you know and it.

[41:24] As I say, we can debate whether that was right, wrong, or indifferent, but whatever. So what do you got there, Jeff? So Senor Strasinski actually answers this question in a way. He says – I'm sorry. Did you just try to say a very Russian name with a Spanish accent? Yeah, I did. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So he says, in season one, we were on probation. In season two, there had been changes and more probation. In season four, we would be told that we were out of time. And season five was a surprise, a happy surprise, but a surprise nonetheless. So season three was really the only one where we were left completely alone. We could go after our stories unafraid and unhindered, which is why year three is among the strongest of the entire series. So our impression of seasons one and two being integral to setting up the stuff, being weaker and whatever, he kind of gives the context as to like, no, we had to play by network rules in season one. Season two, still kind of had to a little bit. And 90s sci-fi, especially mid-90s sci-fi, there was a formula that they followed and we can all look back and be like, yeah, that formula didn't really work. It didn't maintain very well. So...

[42:44] What else you got? Well, Dylan asks. Oh, Dylan. Hey, Dylan. First time around, you both said you never wanted to watch Confessions and Lamentations again. Totally understandable reaction, as it's a huge gut punch episode. Do you still feel that way? Will either of you include this in rewatches, or will you skip it? No and yes. I still feel that exact same way, and yes, I will include it in rewatches. Because this is the thing. You have to have the suck to appreciate the cool, the good. Right. And I'm not saying that the episode sucks, but like you have to have the gut punch to appreciate the huge lifts of everything else. It's brilliant. They're brilliant. It's an amazing episode. It's amazing. And I hate it. Ditto everything you just said ditto i just i just uh was doing sound for uh for the adams family musical and there's a there's a song in there called happy sad and it's all about being happy and sad about the exact same thing at the exact same time and there's a line in there it's like it's just like the bull when the matador drives its sword into his neck he says that was very well done. I hate you. And that's confessions and lamentations. Sure. I'm assuming we're the bull in that metaphor there. Fair enough.

[44:07] You said it well. I'm 100% with you on that. Jeff, we had several people respond to this question about asking us questions. And there was a bunch of them that all sort of fit this category. Paul, Jake, I'm going to stop naming people because I'm going to miss them. But there was a bunch of them that sort of all circled around this one question. So I'm going to pull them all together as this one. It says basically, were there any episodes that surprised you as your opinion of that episode changed? Geometry of Shadows is one, but that didn't surprise us. I think going in, we knew that one was going to... We knew that that would be a different... We knew ahead of time. Because we...

[44:51] Backshadowed that one. What's the, we post shadowed it. Like, like it's an episode that has a lot of foreshadowing. Yeah. And you and I did not pick up on the foreshadowing. However, when that foreshadowing paid off just a handful of episodes later, you and I both were able to look back and be like, Oh my gosh, that's what he was talking about then. And we couldn't have appreciated that in the moment. So, uh, yeah, we, we knew that that would be a big one. Um, I think, and now for a word, jumping as much as it did surprised me quite a bit. It stayed in the same place, but my appreciation for the long dark.

[45:30] Yeah. Because we had that one. I don't hate it as much as I did. Yeah. I appreciate much more of it than I did the first time. It still just did not land at all. But last time, we literally, it was like, it's like, what, the fifth episode, and we ranked it number 22 to go at start. We didn't do that this time. and it had redeeming qualities. Yeah. Knives, knives dropping as low as it did might be the biggest shock. Fairly close. I think my appreciation for Comes the Inquisitor, like I still, you know, I didn't convert on that one, but my opinion absolutely changed. And I'll be honest, like when I went into TKO, I'm like, I'm going to go in open-minded and stuff, but there's no way my opinion's changing. It changed a little bit. I still, same with Comes the Inquisitor. Oh, no, I'm going to be open-minded. I'm still going to hate it. I didn't hate it. Right. Dunderdahl asks. Oh yeah. Yeah. There's the big question. Keffer's arc. Did you get anything new out of it? No. Which my response would be he had an arc. I know. Even after the second watch, he had an arc. My, my viewing of Keffer did change because when we watched it the first time, I thought he was going to be a thing. So I paid attention. I didn't pay attention this time around.

[46:46] I think that is a very normal, a big part of you and I, the first time around, we didn't know what was going to come back. What wasn't, what was important, what was going to flame out, maybe what JMS intended to be something important, but something that he just never picked back up again. But you and I kept drilling down on, we didn't know. We know what that is this time around. Yeah. Keffer, knowing that he was going to go, you know, face peeled off in the, in the final episode as JMS jettisons him from the show because he was forced onto him. Anything that he was in we were we just dismissed because it meant nothing it meant nothing we only paid attention to him in gropos which is now it's just because of the echo of his performance from the first time we're like oh yeah he was good in that it's his best episode it's probably the it's probably him that made us feel for the people who died i'd say it's kefir and dodger like those two characters are the ones that gave that episode life right but the reason that we cared for them was not because of them themselves it was because of keffer dodger we did dodger well i was gonna say did we care for dodger because of dodger did we care for dodger because of garibaldi i would argue we cared for dodger because of dodger i think i think so she's a very well fleshed for big and i forget the other one's name dude yeah um those guys the reason that we started to like them was because of the, the camaraderie that we saw them develop with one of ours. Yeah.

[48:15] Yeah. Totally. Um, and we were just completely embarrassed for Garibaldi and what he did. That's so dumb. So bad, man. So bad. And somehow we all found ourselves in Garibaldi at that moment. So he's totally Jeff till he was like 34 years old. Yeah. I'm totally Brentley's, I don't know, this age now. I've been married for 15 years, and I still kind of feel like that sometimes. And to be clear, it's just been the one woman.

[48:40] And you're still just like an idiot sometimes. Does she like me? I don't know. Is this a thing? I don't know. Right. Listen, we need to slow down because I've been hurt before. I mean, we've had two kids, but I've got to be sure. Right. All right. I've got one more, Jeff. I've got one more. This one comes from our good friend, Trekkie Trey the Trekker. Ah, I love Trey. Hey. Trey, who actually has been responsible for so much of the second watch. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And very.

[49:10] Well, I think we talked about it early on, but it's to give him another point. Like the sound drops and stuff in our opening thing, he pulled that. He actually put together a whole intro that. I think he originally actually, he did that after season four. I think with his hope that we would use it in season five. Um but as soon as we got it i i think i immediately said to you i was like this is our second this is our second watch opening is what this is and we wanted to save it and trey was gracious enough to just wait and he did he did so good like thank you yeah and we you know like he used the season five music i actually his is better than what i put together but you know i mean we still have three more seasons things could change sure absolutely yeah trey trey says i miss the Viewer reviews and interactions with the first time audio podcast. Heck yeah. I missed the season ending prizes, which were a big deal to us and kept us engaged. I'm lucky enough to be a council chambers members and get to interact regularly. But for the audio listeners, it's just missing something now. Very enjoyable. And I look forward to each week, but still, I think there just needs to be some more audio clips from your first time to go around because those were the heart of our enjoyment.

[50:22] I was agreeing with him up until audio i'm like oh my god we gotta pull audio clips we already but also we already listened to it you know so it's not that big of a stretch to pull it it's still a stretch it is it's it's a it's a bigger stretch yeah but i get it i get it but you know i couldn't agree more trey like pulling a couple review going through the reviews and pulling some to put on here and reading like i like oh yes i loved hitting that for people you know like we did have such great interaction early on and uh i miss it too me too me too jeff i think we should do something about that i think we should in fact i think um i said we had some news on this on a later date but maybe we can talk about it a little bit now floor is all yours my friend oh okay so brent and i we've talked about it a little bit this whole time but brent and i are podcasters that's what we were this has always been a podcast that ended up on youtube, Somehow it's turned into a YouTube, Patreon, video, everything all the way around, yeah. But it's always been a podcast for us. And we've lost a bit of just that podcast thing. This is the closest we've come in a long time to just, hey, we're two guys getting together. We did some prep. We got some stuff, whatever, and let's do a podcast and talk about it. And hopefully it's entertaining. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But we've been talking about this for a while, and it really – and Trey, to your point, it really stemmed from –.

[51:44] We're not getting the interaction that we had before and that we really miss. And then also just missing doing a podcast.

[51:55] And with that, there are so many conversations around Babylon 5 specifically. Also Stargate. Also, I'm sure Buffy. Also, I'm sure all of these other shows. But there are so many conversations that are not, hey, let's watch and react to this episode. Now we're in a phase where we're watching and reacting to the episode for the second time because that's where we are right now. My friend, we're 40% of the way through that already. And in about 60 something episodes, we're done with that. But there's so many more conversations to be had. There's so many more ways to do that. And these are conversations that don't have to just be you and I. And these are conversations that nobody take that for anything more than what I just said. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The interactions can be there, right?

[52:46] Having fun with the fandom is there. Like it's all ripe for the taking. And it turns out we're podcasters and we know how to pull those topics and we know how to do that. And we know how to have fun with the show in a way that is more than just watch and react. Although we love watching and reacting. Totally, yeah. There's only so many times you can do that before you are just done with it. Yeah. Twice is actually that number. Let's talk about Jakar's arc. Let's talk about Sheridan and his many wives, or just the different things that can be discussed. Let's rank. Let's do a ranking of Ivanova's best lines. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. There are so many things we can do. And so our intent is to – we're not going to create a new podcast. We just don't have the bandwidth for that. But we're going to enhance our current podcast with what we're calling The Bad Nerds, The Podcast. Oh, you're going to do that? Yeah, let's do that. I think it's great.

[53:45] The the. Yeah. The bad nerds, the podcast. So in that we can pull other things. Let's talk about Garibaldi, whatever. Let's talk about Daniel Jackson and how his character changed as Stargate went on. When we get into Buffy, when we get into Farscape, we can pull those things. It can keep things going. It can also help introduce people that only listen or watch to one of our things, to the other stuff that's out there. But most importantly, it's going to give us a space in which we can read reviews. We can talk about emails. We can- We can read comments back. Exactly. We can have those interactions. Yeah. All those things that make you, the community, a part of the show. Because, Trey, you couldn't be more correct. Part of what made the first time so magical wasn't just the bubble we lived in. It wasn't just that we were watching Babylon 5. It wasn't just you and me, Jeff. It was every single one of you that are listening or watching us right now. That you were just as much a part of this as, as we were. And this is going to be our way to pull you back in. Yeah. And, and, you know, listen, we're still going to put the video on YouTube. That's still going to exist there, but the show has become so video heavy. This is going to give, particularly those who are still around as audio folk, this is going to lend to the audio side so much better than, than, and I think we're doing a pretty a good job on the audio side with what we've got going on because we want them to hear our interactions in those discussions but this is really gonna you know for the people who are.

[55:14] Listening to us while they're driving or getting ready in the morning or working because they're in a factory or a warehouse or something or wherever i don't know wherever you work people pop in earpods and listen to us all the time so i was at the hospital last night there was a guy whose whole job was to sit there and watch the wax dry yeah they were relaxing the floor and his job was just watching it to make sure it was dry yep you know his little earpod in i was like he's listening to a podcast could be exactly so we'll have more to come on this we don't know when what's going to start we don't necessarily know the frequency of it but um this in a way is kind of our backdoor pilot for that uh for that the the concept we're not saying this just off the cuff what there's a tremendous amount of intention and planning that goes into some of the things that we do some of the things some of them do you have anything else from the patreon crew that's it from from them cool we love our but which let me let me say if if i didn't read your comment it wasn't encapsulated in that one that i said hey a lot of these just kind of had this.

[56:11] Either A, it came in after Jeff and I recorded this, or B, I just missed it and I apologize. But I really tried to pull in all of them that were a part of that show, a part of that. So if I missed it, I missed it. My apologies. And we may catch it in the Bad Nerds, the podcast. I was just getting ready to say that. Yeah, that could be totally a thing. Which, by the way, by the way, will most likely have early special pre-releases exclusive on our Patreon exclusive podcast. Right? Yeah. Which you can access from your favorite podcasting app of choice. We've got an RSS feed that's just been sitting there.

[56:49] This whole time. It's great. Waiting for this. I want to say thank you to all of you, every single one of you that are watching or listening.

[57:00] Special thank you to all of you that have been with us since the first time. That's a big deal. It's been a long road, and it's been awesome being with you. It's what, Jeff? It's been a long, long road. If you say it, you got to sing it, man. No, I do not. You know what people don't like? Jeff singing. You know people don't like us talking about star trek and a babylon five thing that too that too but uh no i just want to we thank them but we can't thank them enough just our community at patreon our council chambers and everyone else on patreon it's a incredible being able to interact with you but your support is why we are still here and why we're doing this and all of those things so if you're not currently a subscriber to our patreon that's fine we understand it's not an option for everyone if you're able to, and you want access. I mean, there is.

[57:52] I think we're approaching thousands of posts. There's stuff that you don't see here. You watching Andor, me watching Jeremiah, Acolyte, Timeless. There's a lot of extra content. There's a whole list you have of undone stuff that you and I both have of like stuff we want to get to. It's a lot. But that's over at our Patreon page. There's a link down in the show notes, patreon.com slash. Bad nerds. It'd be great to see you there. If you're not in a position to subscribe to our Patreon, that's totally fine. I get it. And you want to support the show, there's still so many ways that you can do that. Leaving a review, right, so that we may be able to interact with you here. Commenting, liking, subscribing is a big thing. The single thing that you can do, though, that really shows the most support for this show and costs you nothing whatsoever, but means the world to both myself and Brent, is to share. Share this show With someone who's into science fiction Of any kind, right? Just share the bad nerds Share us, the bad nerds, with all of them So Brent, this has been a lot of fun Until next time We are the bad nerds I mean, we're not some deep space franchise This station is about something.