Babylon 5 Season 1 Wrap-Up

Jeff: Welcome to Babylon five for the first time, not a star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin and I'm watching Babylon five for the first time.

Brent: Well, I'm John preday chuckle nugget. Still makes me laugh. And Jeff, I'm not watching Babbel on five for the first time. Whoa. I have watched Babybel on five season one for the very first time.

That's right.

Jeff: We did it. We watched all of season one, all those people early on that all drop out. They'll watch infection and we'll never see 'em again. Hey, uh, we are still

Brent: here. Yeah, we made it. We absolutely made it. And we are having a bit of a celebration today. Jeff we're we're taking a time out from our watching party, which this is honestly killing me because we sort of left everything in a, in a loop.

It wasn't quite a cliff hanger at the end of last week, but there was definitely some threads that were not complete, but we're taking them. We're taking a week just to catch our breaths and look back on the entirety of season one and just sort of. Wrap the whole thing up, uh, you know, uh, chew on it just a little bit before we get sent off into this next chapter.

I think it literally is like, the next chapter of is yeah. Of the show. And, uh, with that, um, we'll be talking about that and we're also going to be doing a super cool giveaway. Yes, we

Jeff: are episode. This is awesome. Awesome. Tell him about it. Tell 'em about it. Yes. What do you give away?

Brent: So, so our buddy wash, who is one of our great listeners here of the show, um, he designed and printed a 3d model of the Babylon five station.

And I think I've had it sitting backwards on my shelf back there. Like I've had, um, The back end pointing forward because I just realized this is actually see, this is what I'm still trying to figure out. What's what on the station. But apparently this is the front. Here's the command globe area and the launch.

Anyway, this is super cool. If you guys are just listening to this on the podcasting feed, you need to go check this out on our, um, YouTube video. Jeff, we should also take a picture of this and post it up on our social medias. That's

Jeff: a really good idea.

Brent: Why haven't we done that yet? I blame

Jeff: you. You should.

You totally should. I'll blame my team. I'll just throw them right under the bus. There you go.

Brent: So we're gonna be giving this away to a lucky listener who has sent in a, um, a review, one of those things review. Yeah, that that's it right there. One of the reviews, uh, you guys have been sending in, uh, your emails and stuff here over the last couple of weeks saying, Hey, I'd sent one in and uh, we're gonna, we're gonna give this one out, although I gotta be honest with you, Jeff.

I don't wanna. You're gonna, I want, oh no, I want keep it. Yeah. Well, wanna keep it,

Jeff: give it aways. Cool on YouTube. I got it right here. I got a bag and in the bag it's uh, can, I'm trying to get it on camera. Like it is full of names in here. These are all the names from, uh, oh my gosh. I'm having a hard

Brent: time with how many is that?

Because honestly, on camera, it looks like three. How many is actually

Jeff: in there? So I'm trying, I know when I, when I printed these,

Brent: I, I don't need an exact number. Look at me a ballpark, like

Jeff: there's around, there's around like around 40, 42

Brent: in here. No way it seriously looks like three on camera. Really?

Jeff: Yeah.

It doesn't look like that. I needed more than one piece of like sheet, like a more than one sheet of, of paper to print, print it off in a way I could, my old man eyes could read it, so

Brent: okay. Well, we'll, uh, we'll give this one out, um, later and Jeff soon, we'll give it

Jeff: out later. I mean, I, we're gonna talk about a lot of won't we're we wont.

we will no, maybe we won't may maybe, maybe we

Brent: will. It's I should add it also comes with its own little stand too. It's like, it's a freaking Eagle Moss station over here, man, right?

Jeff: Yeah, no, I'm excited. And also like we've talked about in the last couple of weeks, we haven't been reading the reviews that have come through because like I just showed you.

There'd been quite, there've been a lot of them keep 'em coming in. right. Yeah. We're gonna have other stuff. And what's cool is not only do we have a bunch of new reviews come in, but people who had reviewed us in the past are also included. So the ones who, some of 'em took screenshots and sent those in as well.

So they're included in the drawing, who knows when our next drawing is gonna be or next giveaway or whatever. So make sure you get those reviews in. So when we do another one, you're entered it, it really

Brent: just depends on when wash, you know, prints at least two more of these stations. So I can keep one the next time and then we'll give the next one out or whate whatever.

If anybody else wants to send something in for us to give away, guess what? We'll give it away. We'll totally do. I think we can confidently say it will at least be on the season two wrap up show. It may or may not happen before then though. I don't know. Never know. We'll see, you know, Jeff, I really wanna keep this one for myself though.

Jeff: I know you do well. Hey, if you, if you, uh, well, not no were gonna, we're gonna send it to an awesome, awesome listener.

Brent: Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. All right, Jeff. Um, Hey, let's get to talking about this season. So we've just wrapped up season one and I'll, I'll toss it to you first over here. What are some of your overall impressions from the season as a whole?

I really enjoyed

Jeff: this. We've talked a lot about, um, and I guess an excuse like a past that we've given more than once is, eh, it's nineties sci-fi first season kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I think of the nineties sci-fi that I've watched. This is about as good as a first season. Gets like right now, there's kind of like, there there's peace, but there's not peace.

We've talked so much about why are they even trying to do this? But mm-hmm, the season kind of gave us a really good idea of, of why, right? Not only are these races clamoring for each other, but the race themselves are fighting. The Centara feel like they're falling apart. The men, BARR have stuff going on in earth.

I mean, woo Brent. They killed the president. they killed the president.

Brent: Did and installed their own dude. I mean, this sounds like something that may be happening here in real life sooner rather than later.

Jeff: Yeah. May but no, I think this was definitely nineties season one, it had a slow, had a slow start. I'm not gonna lie.

And I might say this a couple more times, but there were in some of those early episodes. I wasn't sure I wanted to keep. Soldier and through like, I mm-hmm , you know, we had a couple conversations about like, oh my gosh, if this doesn't turn around, but, but I mean, between episodes like Babylon squared, mind war Chrysalis, like this season, wasn't meant to be like, here's the whole story.

This season was meant to be like, here's the table. That's now mostly set for the story that's coming. Is it though really mostly set. I'm gonna guess it mostly there's only four more seasons. Right. And

Brent: right. They gotta get to some stuff now. Right. Yeah. Right. I mean, I guess if you think about it in terms of like a five act play mm-hmm a lot of times we think about a three act play, but let's think, talk about it as a five act, play.

Typical episode of television is in five acts. Yep. Right. That first act very much is let's introduce you to the characters and let's set the scene. Yeah. You know, the next, the next one, exactly. The next one is where they really introduce the problem. Maybe that's what season two is like, we're really gonna introduce the conflict, like the big conflict of what's what's really going on.

Like, we've kind of said that. So I, I don't know. Um, I'm with you though, uh, for me out there wondering Jeff and I don't share notes and talk about this stuff beforehand, we just don't. But I literally started this office said as far as the first seasons of 90 sci-fi television go, this one was really good.

Yeah. It was better than next generation season one, it was better than se quests. It was better than DS nine might even be better than Voyager. I really like Voyagers even in season one, but I have a really soft spot for Voyager, more so than a lot of trackies out there. Voyager

Jeff: was Voyager, I'll say the, the pilot for Voyager and also by the way, we're suspending our star Trek game for today.

Yeah,

Brent: absolutely. Just, yeah. Yeah. I'm not even playing along

Jeff: with that, but I think, I think when you look at, when Voyager came out, it got to learn from DS nine, TNG Alon five and so many others, and, and that shows like it was a PR. one of the mostly, well put together first seasons. I think it

Brent: was too. And honestly, I think enterprise had a pretty decent first season as well before it got all weird.

And, and even enterprise, even enterprise had some, some low points. I don't know that it was better than Stargate okay. Than that first season. But even stargates first season was still a first season sci-fi show season. Yeah. So this one, I mean this one ranks up there. It was really good. There was a lot of mystery in this season.

There are a lot of what the heck is going on. Mm-hmm that carried through the episodes. There was intrigue. There was lots of laughs, which I think is important for any show like this. And probably is one of the places where honestly, star Trek misses a lot is there's there's the levity just isn't often there.

Um, and that's not to say there's no levity in star Trek. There certainly is. It's. It's

Jeff: few and far between, and it's not always done very well. Exactly. Yes,

Brent: yes, exactly. Um, there are characters that have, we've already become endeared to, like, there are characters that I absolutely love. Yeah. Care about favorites.

Yes. Mm-hmm yes, absolutely. Usually don't get that in a season one just yet. Um, lines have been drawn and we have chosen sides of like where we are on, on many of these lines. Um,

I think this season one has given me everything. I need to confidently say that we are going to make it through this whole series, not just because of the podcast, but like, I will watch the rest of this show just based on the quality of season one. And I think Jeff, that we just need to stop asking ourselves if we should have watched this sooner, because it's an unequivocal.

Yes. We should have watched the show sooner. So I don't agree. Oh yeah. Okay, go ahead. No, that's fine. What

Jeff: I think. I mean on one hand. Yeah. Because it's great and I'm loving it, but I don't know that if I watched this, when it came out yeah. With my age, with the other stuff that I was watching with my maturity, how I could look back on it, I don't think I would've appreciated it the way I do now, you know?

Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. I think it hits well because, because essentially I have trained my entire sci-fi life to be able to truly appreciate babble on five.

Brent: See, now what you're doing though, Jeff is you're giving me the like, okay, listen, I made a lot of bad choices in my life, but those are the choices that led me to become the person I am today.

No, I don't really regret it. That's the answer you were giving me. Yeah, man, come on. Now. It is,

Jeff: but it's true. and, and I know this because 17 year old, Jeff watched one or two parts of these episodes and laughed it off and never looked back.

Brent: Right, right. I that's probably true. I mean, I didn't come to sci-fi as a whole, until I was in my twenties, often doing my own thing as well.

So. You know, should have watched this maybe 30 years ago. No. Should I have watched it 20? Yeah, probably. Yeah. yeah, totally agree with that. Yeah. Um, let me give you some of the negative stuff though. Over the season. I don't wanna say negative. Just the not glowing stuff. Yeah. Um, I still don't feel like we know much about the future or how things operate in this world and how things are laid out.

Like, I have no idea, like what's close. What's not where me, you know, like I think I saw a map one time over the course of the season. Somebody sent it in. It's like, it's not a spoiler. Just here's the map of the future of, of where all the spaces are. I don't, I, without that, I would know nothing. Yeah. You know, and, uh, you know, I compare that to, to other things.

You still tend to have somewhat points of reference. You also get these clues SMA smattered in of how did we get from us today to them tomorrow? Mm-hmm . You know, and we don't have those connective tissues just yet. Those haven't come through and I feel like I'm missing those. And there's probably a lot of people out there.

Like it doesn't matter. Or of course they did. Here's where they said it. Okay. I just didn't pick up on it in this one. Yeah. Um, we don't know really what caused the war between earth and BARR. Like I think we got a pretty good handle on the Tari Narn thing, but I don't like, we don't, we have no idea what really happened with earth.

Mbar

Jeff: yeah. We know that Duco was killed. That's all we know. Right. But

Brent: like, but who was Duco and okay. He was the leader of the great council. Awesome. Why, why were they even talking to earth for at the time? How, like, where is all of that? Um, how does

Jeff: that launch into a holy war that lasted exactly as long as it did with as much, you know, violence has happened.

Yeah, exactly.

Brent: And we know absolutely nothing about the VLAN. We just, we, you know, like, I've, I've come to a point by the end of the season where anytime something comes on screen that I don't know what it is or something's coming outta the jump gate. It's a VOR long ship that might not be, but that's what I , that's what I'm thinking is it's a VOR long ship.

Right?

Jeff: Well, I think it's hard and maybe this isn't fair. Right. But the, the pilot was built around the mystery of the VLAN. Mm-hmm so on, on one hand, yeah. They're, they're mysterious, but we got that. And I think we saw K six times in 22 episodes, and sometimes we saw him and he did nothing. So mm-hmm, , it's like, Hey, we built our house on this thing.

Right. You're not gonna see this thing again.

Brent: Right. And the times we saw, but when we saw Kash, he obliterated people. Exactly. You know, like he comes in and he's like, yeah, I just killed death Walker. You guys aren't ready for that. And then he bounce. He's

Jeff: the one who looks Morden in the face and he is like, you know, he's like, they're not for you back off.

Brent: Yeah, exactly. Or, um, you know, Len goes to him and he's just sitting there breathing like Darth Fedder and she's like, I need to see you. And he, he doesn't say anything, he just does a thing. And she's like, okay, I got it. And she's like, walks away, like, who is this guy? Yeah. What are, what is this people group?

And, and that's where, you know, you said that the table's set and I'm like, is it really because I still have, have these issues. And I've got one more. And I really am wanting to discuss this as far as what we have seen on screen, not what's going on off screen our captain, our commander mm-hmm whatever he is.

We don't really know him. We don't know much about him. Um, he has these walls up, but he still is kind of awesome sometimes. There's there's, there's a block. I feel like to this guy, and I don't know if it's supposed to be like that or not. Um, I find him to be very stiff and I, again, I don't know that it's his acting as much as just the way he's being written, what he's given, given to work with.

Mm-hmm , you know, um, I almost wish that he was the kind of character that they actually wrote him so that you didn't like him very much. Yeah. But then he was awesome from time to time. Like you're like, okay, I see why he's the captain. I see why he is in command. But I really don't. I really kind of don't like him.

Like, I like, if they're gonna go this route with him, like he's gruff he's mean he's, he's, you know, he's damaged goods, you know, he's got this mystery behind him of the, of what happened to him with the earth Manari war. And he's like, I kind of just wanted to be a jerk sometimes, but then be right. Kind of like, kind of like you would buzz me if we were actually keeping track of these captain Angelo mm-hmm , you know, like you're a jerk.

I don't like you,

Jeff: but you are right. So almost more of a captain Pierce who got it right? Sometimes. Yes. Like, yeah. Yeah. I think were, I, I almost feel like I'm the jerk instead of him, because for a lot of it, I did not like him mm-hmm and it wasn't that I didn't like him. It said, I didn't know enough about him.

Like you were saying, it didn't know enough to like him. And so yeah, like me, I'm the one who decided to not like him and then every now and again, he was awesome. And it's like, am I the jerk for thinking this guy not cool? Or is he a jerk or is it just not well, well done. Yeah. I think the whole Sinclair thing was just a mess in a lot.

And, and I don't, I think there was issues with his writing. Not gonna speak ill of Michael O'Hare personally, but I don't think, I don't think, I think if he got his hands, like his mind wrapped around who the character was, it took him 18 episodes to get there. You know, it took it cuz through a lot of it, I just, I don't feel like he knew who he was trying to be.

And so it just turned into a lot of you and you and I talking a lot about like, he's a terrible leader, he's doing this awful thing, but he is then in closer to the end, but he's also a really great human mm-hmm and he is also experienced extreme trauma

Brent: mm-hmm but then he does something like awesome, like by any means necessary where he ends the strike in the way

Jeff: he did and yeah.

And hooks up Jaar and lawn both and like just literally solves everything in a magic awesome way. Exactly.

Brent: Exactly. So, um, now with that on the other side, they've nailed lawn and Jaar. Yeah. They, they are the gold of this entire show even to Lynn I, the actress that they have portraying to Lynn, I wasn't sure about her at first.

But I'm, I'm like for what she is supposed to be like, I'm, I'm, I'm great with her. Yeah. Perfect. I'm big fan. We, you and I both were big fans of the sidekicks totally here. Veer, NATA, Aldi. Is he the sidekick of, of Sinclair?

Jeff: I guess when the spinoff happens of the side kicks. Yes. Garal he's gonna be, he's gonna be in there with him.

Yeah. Right,

Brent: right. And we, and we don't and Kosh doesn't have one, so whatever. Um, and, and I want more of them

Jeff: and I think they were so well done also, cuz I remember, I remember hating linear. I had zero patience for the guy. And now I'm just like, mm-hmm, especially when we got up to, I think the quality of mercy, it's just like, I love this guy.

Brent: Hey, he's, you know where it turned, you know, where it turned for me was the episode where he put together the, the motorcycle. Totally. It was totally the, was that eyes, it was eyes or legacies. It was one of those two, I think. Yeah. Um, and, and he, uh, yeah, that's where he turned for me. And then by the time we got to quality of mercy and then even into Chrysalis, like, yeah.

He came into his own finally. And it's like, we liked him in the very last part of the season. We didn't see veer hardly at all in the last part of the season. Like, we fell in love with veer, like right in the middle, like in those middle couple of episodes. And like, if you remember the time where like, lawn was just embarrassing him in front of other people, and then all of a sudden he grows a backbone and you're like, hell yeah.

Veer. And then he is a complete idiot again. And you're like, that's funny too. But like, I wanna see something happen with VE and then NA Toth, man. Yeah. I mean, the moment she beat the ever love and snot out death Walker. I'm like, I like this girl and I'm so glad they recast, whoever that original at attache person was that came in.

In that one episode, I still liked her.

Jeff: Did you? Oh, I did. I liked her right away, but, but when we got NATA, it's one of those things where I, for me, that first one came in, I'm like, oh, this is gonna be great. And then NATA came in. I'm like, oh yeah, she wasn't that good. Like, I'm glad she got pushed out an airlock.

Yeah. And talk is so much better.

Brent: So Jeff, we don't have this in our notes. So I'm gonna call an audible here. Let's talk real quick about some of the recasts in this, in this season that we saw, mostly these are gonna go from the pilot into the regular show. So we just talked about the Atache for, um, uh, bridge car, car mm-hmm right.

Uh, but we also know that the doctor changed mm-hmm I don't know that that was a good change visually. It was good, but in the end, I don't know that it was a good change. I

Jeff: loved everything. Was it was, what was it? His name? Was it Dr. Walker? no

Brent: Ben there's Ben something. Yeah. Let's just call him Ben.

Jeff: Yeah. I, I loved everything about that guy.

Mm-hmm everything. I, I had no complaint right.

Brent: Whatsoever. He had that. He had that doctor in Benga feel to him. Yeah. That I loved. Yeah. And then they bring in Dr. Franklin who I wanna punch. Like I don't, I am not on the Dr. Franklin train at

Jeff: all. At first. I was, I was okay with it at first. I thought, sure. He looks good.

He sounds good. I, I liked that initial, um, attitude. Mm-hmm , you know, that, that, that he had, but then we watched that attitude grow and change and let's just like, oh, you're an objectively horrible

Brent: person. yeah. Like when we got to believers and then, uh, was it quality of mercy? I think it was quality of mercy was the one that put the cap on it for me.

Mm-hmm and I was like, I'm done with this guy. Yeah.

Jeff: It's literally like, you know, I'm the only guy who can run an illegal clinic around here, like, whoa, who do you think you

Brent: are? Right. I just, I mean, you know, I need, this guy needs to turn to like house. Did you ever watch that show? Oh yeah. I loved house.

You know, where he, the complete, let him be the anti-hero let him be the guy that you don't like, kind of what I was talking about the way I felt like they should have wrote Sinclair, let him be that guy and just let him be hanging around and be a source of, of tension and friction. So there was that. And then probably the other biggest one was recasting the, the Takeshima lead, the yeah.

Takeshima road. Mm-hmm the exo role. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. We went from Tokushima to VVA. A lot of people out there. Apparently don't like Tokushima at all. I know you and I were big fans of her. I was a huge

Jeff: fan. Yeah. That. V's better. Yeah. I would trade nothing for a VVA. Ivan's amazing.

Brent: Yes.

Abso freaking lutely. A VVA is amazing. All right, Jeff, let's get back to our notes with where we are. So how about this? And I think this would be fun and I don't think this needs to be a terribly long, uh, exercise. Um, I wanna rank the season. Okay. I wanna go through, and let's just talk about the, we're gonna talk about all 22 episodes and, and we're gonna go real fast through these mm-hmm , but, um, let's just put them in an order of ranking and, and, you know, I, I think you, and I probably have some sort of consensus, but I here's, the way we'll do it is, is we'll, we'll throw out the name of the episode and we'll put it on and then you just have to decide, is it better or worse than what, like, which episodes does it fall in between?

Okay. If that makes sense.

Jeff: It will when we get into it. yes.

Brent: So hold on. I need a map of the, here we go. Okay. So number one, we'll, we'll just put it straight out there. Um, I probably should have done some graphic here for the YouTube folks. Sorry, YouTube.

Jeff: I know. And I feel like we need like some game show music or something.

Right. We we're very unprepared for

Brent: this , you know, you know, having, having transition bumps for the show as a whole, Jeff would not be, would not be horrible. All right. Uh, we'll go with episode one, the gathering. That's gotta be the first episode. Okay. Okay. Now we'll go on to the next one. Midnight on the firing line.

That's the episode where Kars people blew up on Orlando's planets. Do you put that above or below? The gathering above. Above. Okay. Um, the next episode is, uh, soul hunter below, below the gathering. So we we've got. Uh, well, we now I think the answer is

Jeff: just below low.

Brent: right? Uh, so, so we've got gathering.

We've got, um, midnight fire line, then we've got soul hunter. Nope, sorry, midnight and fire line gathering soul hunter. I'm not gonna do this for every single one. All right. The next one was born to the purple. I believe that was the one where lawn, uh, fell in love with a girl. Yep. And she stole all his stuff.

Jeff: uh, where do you hasn't been there? I mean, my goodness, like, right.

Brent: Uh, where, where do you put

Jeff: this one? I put that one just below midnight on the firing line, but above the other

Brent: ones, I put that one above midnight on the firing line. Did you really? Yeah, I like that one a lot better. That one. And I tell you why, because it, it, it like that one touched me.

Like I remember cuz that was the one where Orlando was like, I don't want to be an old man. This was a different episode, but the same idea of he forgot how to dances. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like there, there was a little bit of, of, of, uh,

Jeff: it led to that. It made that work. Yeah, it did. It did. So I won't argue with that.

Brent: Great. I'm glad you saw it my way. All right. Moving on. Uh, we now have, oh, our second favorite episode of the entire season infection.

Jeff: Yeah. I'd put that one above soul hunter and that's it.

Brent: I'm with you. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then the next one then becomes, all right. So our top five, then our

number one is born to the purple, who is midnight on the firing line.

Three is the gathering

four then becomes infection and five is soul hunter. Okay. So that's our top five. Yeah. Now we've gotta talk about where we're gonna, where we're gonna drop these, these next ones. Okay. The next one is parliament of dreams. I believe that was the one where we talked about the religion across the station lawn, got up on the table and kissed his God's butt.

Um, where, where do you place

Jeff: this one? That's going on the top right now for me. Is it above born to the purple above?

Brent: Born to the purple above. Born to the purple. Okay. I did not have that one that high, but I'll give it to you. I think

Jeff: that sets so many of the tones for what happens throughout the rest of the season.

Brent: Just for, not like in the episode, I just, like, I remember that episode was just kind of blah, blah, blah. And then it came down to like this one line from Sinclair at the very end, that was like, okay, that was pretty good. You like yourself, but also lawn flailing on a table. Like you just can't and wasn't that the one that Sinclair also got married to Mbar or something like that.

Yeah, possibly. Yeah. Yeah. Possibly. Right, right. Our next episode is mind war. This is the one to check off and the whole CYOP people. Yeah. An iron

Jeff: horse. Yeah. Or iron iron, Jason iron heart Uhhuh. I think, I think I'm gonna put this one just below born to

Brent: the purple. Hmm. I had this one below the G like I had it just, I had it between the gathering and infection.

Yeah. Like I remember not liking this one a whole lot. Like it had check off. That's cool. Taking that out of it. I was like, yeah.

Jeff: There's nothing else.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you said you had it, you had it under born to the purple. Yeah, that's right. I,

Jeff: I, I initially have it, but I could drop it underneath the gathering.

Okay. We'll do

Brent: that. I do that. Um, not, not that I think any of these are gonna stay in the top five except for maybe one of them. Um, we'll see.

Jeff: That was a very threatening thing for me to say right there. It was, it was,

Brent: it was all right. Next episode. The war prayer. Let's go to the top. Absolutely. That was our first, uh, DC Fontana episode, right?

Yeah. Hang

Jeff: the first time we were both like I loved this episode. Exactly,

Brent: exactly. Um, cause, oh, that was just a, a fantastic, fantastic episode. All right. The next one was in the sky full of stars. We got a little bit of, uh, Sinclair's backstory in this one.

Jeff: I'd put this one just underneath the war.

Brent: Prayer. I think I had this one just underneath, born to the purple.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Um, but I'm gonna go with you cuz I, again, these are all kind of running, running together with me. Right now. So

sky full of stars.

Okay. So currently we are war, prayer, sky full of stars, parliament of dreams, born to the purple midnight on the firing line. The gathering has dropped out of our top five. It's a much

Jeff: better top

Brent: five. It's it. It's getting stronger. All right. The next episode is death Walker. I'm gonna put that at the top

Jeff: of our list so far.

Oh, above war, prayer above

Brent: war prayer. I had it just below war. Prayer. Yeah. Yeah. So, so sell me on, on overriding war prayer. I'm trying really hard to . It was a fantastic

Jeff: episode. It really death Walker was just so good. And I think this is the star Trek fan in me because it just, it just put that, like, it literally asked the question that, Hey, if Hiller showed up, but he could cure everything.

Would we be cool with Hitler walking around? You know? Right. Oh God, that was so good. Yeah. But I think in the context. Babble on five. I think the war prayer really did a lot more setting the tone and mm-hmm without the war, prayer, nothing else in season one, almost would've made sense.

Brent: Right. But what was a better episode?

What was a stronger episode? A, you might be right. Death Walker might really God, it was on its own death. Walker might have been a stronger episode. I mean, death Walker at the top. I'm gonna, I was gonna

Jeff: say even like the, the actor that play played, it was so over the top Uhhuh, but it worked for death Walker, you know, like, oh, it's just it.

And it hadn't a to beaten her down with a wrench. Absolutely.

Brent: Oh, right at the very be and yeah. Cause, and we'd been having that conversation about like, how do people just punch each other on the, on the, the Zocalo and nobody bats an eye like right in front of Aldi in the station commander. Nobody's like, eh, whatever, unless you're

Jeff: in a talk, then

Brent: you get brought in.

All right. Next episode. Our favorite episode of the entire season believers, where do we put this one? Jeff,

Jeff: I'm gonna put this one. So we've got. We've got death Walker and then the war prayer

Brent: sky full of stars, parliament of dreams, and born to the purple. I'm gonna put it just

Jeff: under the sky full of stars

Brent: that high.

This was a great episode that high, no, this was not

Jeff: a great episode. I mean, it was horrible. It was a terrible episode, but you know what? You and I both watch this. And I mean, the emotional reaction that this elicited from us, mm-hmm , I mean, that's great storytelling,

Brent: which is why I also have it right below sky full of stars which puts it into the number four slot on our list pushes born to the purple off of the top five.

Wow. Yeah, I know. Right, right. But yeah, I mean the, the emotional hit that that episode took. When you think about it, just as in the context of an episode itself, I, I will be perfectly happy if I never ever see that episode again, I'll be perfectly happy if I never ever see similar's list ever again. It's a fantastic movie and everybody should watch it.

It's a great, but I don't ever need to see it again. You know what I mean? All right. Next episode survivors with Leanna and uncle Mike.

Jeff: Yeah. Um, I think this one's gonna go below midnight on the firing line for

Brent: me. I'm with you. Yeah. I'm with you. The only thing is I have parliament dreams way below. Yeah.

This was not a great episode. Overall. The, the Garabaldi stuff is what made this episode watchable, um, and, and memorable. The rest of it was just,

Jeff: yeah. And specifically Jerry Doyle's portrayal of Garabaldi stuff like, sure. And this is, we're gonna talk about this in a couple other episodes coming up too, also where like a person's performance.

Is what saved this episode. Yes. Yeah.

Brent: Yes. And that, as opposed to a person's performance, which almost killed this episode in the same episode, coexisting that almost canceled each other out. They really did. They really did. All right. Next episode, by any means necessary. That's the one with the strike.

Jeff: Yeah.

And I, and I still have feelings on this one. My, myself, I would put this one. I think I would put this one just above survivors.

Brent: I'm gonna argue with you on this one. Okay. This one needs to be way higher. Really? This was a good episode. So this was a good, this was a union leader. This was

Jeff: a good Sinclair episode.

I'll say that. Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. And the way it wrapped. The way he kind of pulled stuff out and what he did with, with lawn and Jaar and, you know, I even, I really loved the little touch of, as the episode went on, he got more and more ragged looking mm-hmm he had the five o'clock shadow. He did his, his uniform was like unbuttoned and stuff.

And is this the one,

Jeff: is this the one where lawn got in the elevator and me to Kar put up his, oh, did the, the hoo

Brent: that one. Yeah. Um, was that this one was, yeah, I think it was, this was the, yeah, because this, uh, cuz Jaar was doing the whole Jaquan F thing. Yeah. In this episode. Oh God. Yeah. Where did you, I'm saying I have this one on number three.

I really liked this episode. What? Yeah, this is above in the sky. Full of stars for me. Wow. Hold on. Jeff job on the floor folks.

Jeff: I, I, I, I, I, wow.

Brent: You can, you can negate me. We can, we can meet this in the middle and put it somewhere, but it's not going as low

Jeff: as survivors. I could see this being in our number five in our current top five.

I don't even know where that puts it, but I could see it being there. Okay.

Brent: That's gonna knock believers. That's gonna knock believers off the list, which I'm a okay with. Yeah, I think so. I am a okay with that. Gosh. Um, I just did not like this one, but no, I'm sorry that knocks parliament of dreams off the list and leaves believers in it.

Number four. Okay. I will give you that. I'll give you that. Okay. Next episode then moving on, uh, signs importance. What's our top three right now the top three is death Walker, the war prayer sky, full of stars, believers, and by any means necessary. So

Jeff: I kind of wanna put this one just below in the sky full of stars.

I had it just below believers. Okay. Yeah. I can agree with that. Yeah.

Brent: And. While I personally had, by any means necessary above this one, I will, I will slot this right in between. So that pushes by any means necessary out of the top five, I feel good signs and importance at number five, which means it's on the bubble of top five anyway.

Yeah. Signs. Yeah. This was the one about, they found the I the sari eye and we got, what do you want, dude?

Jeff: Um, yeah, this was, this was like, this was the season one mid finale essentially, right? Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. Would I, you know, I just, it was a, it was a fine episode. It just wasn't super memorable to me. You know what I mean?

Like I think there, like maybe looking back on it, if we look back on this episode, when we get to like season three and four, and we know more about the impact of that, because there's stuff that has to do with. This, what do you want guy? Mm-hmm which we saw come back. Um, the ship that just obliterated everybody, which again, we, we came back, uh, introducing those kind of pieces.

I don't know if there's gonna be a coup well, no, there can't because that dude died. Um, so I was gonna say there's gonna be a coup on sari or something like that, but that died. So that's not an issue anymore. Um, yeah, I just, I, I don't know how impactful this episode is going to be overall.

Jeff: I think this episode overall is gonna be very impactful, like I think almost, and I think it's gonna be impactful in this coming season in season two.

You think? So? Talk about at the end a little bit. Yeah. But, but as an episode itself, I, yeah, I don't know. It just you're right. Like it had, it had moments. Yeah.

Brent: But is that full? If, if that episode is impactful, I'm gonna say it's like that one episode in deep space, nine where they first mentioned the dominion sort of offhandedly at the end of the episode.

like the episode wasn't about that. They just mentioned it and threw it in there. And all of a sudden that became what the holding show was about by the end. Like, yeah. But this was the first mention. Like that would be the kind of impact that I would foresee this one having. Um, although I don't know. I it's gotta be, what do you want

Jeff: guy?

Like, I think it's got, yeah, I think it's got the Morden stuff. And then I think it has the, the babble on five station blowing up whatever that thing is, are gonna be the, and the

Brent: more stuff which they totally waffled on. They waffled on. At the end of that episode, though, Jeff, they did, this is only a possible future.

The future's constantly being rewritten. Oh, I hated that part.

Jeff: I loved that. But then also that's, that's, that's reading through the dun series multiple times like that. Magic

Brent: scifi that sci-fi 1 0 1. That's a here's the future. You can still change it though. Mm-hmm it's unwritten the future's unwritten. I mean, we've seen, we've seen it for anyway.

Let's move on. Move on. Move on, move on TK. Oh, this is the boxing ma nailed, nailed the prediction on this one. You did the boxing episode, but also this is, uh, rabbi Kolo and Ivanova, uh, doing her grieving process for her dad. So

Jeff: in preparing for this mm-hmm gave some thought to like, what were my bottom couple?

What were my top couple? Yep. TKO for me overall was my number five favorite episode of this entire season. Really? I to this day. Yeah, loved TKO. Loved it. I'm not gonna die on that hill though, because I understand. Understand my taste and your taste, or where, where did you have

Brent: it? Okay. I wanna, I wanna do something that's probably not right.

And you, you can negate me on this one. Okay. I wanna slide TKO to number four. I wanna leave signs, importance at number five and drop believers to number six. We're gonna flip flop believers in signs, importance God. Okay. Okay. Cause it, I I'm I'm with you on, I really did like the episode. I didn't have it as, quite as high as five, but I, I did like the episode.

Um, but I don't, I don't know that I wanna lose signs importance out of the top

Jeff: five just yet. Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree with that. Um, okay. I'll tell you in my, in my ranking of all of them I did, or that I did there, I had TKO at number five and signs importance at number six. So okay. This lines

Brent: up for me. Okay.

All right. Number four. Well, let's find out if this, what is your number four or three or two or one grail? This is the episode of David weer, uh, where he comes in in jinx. So, and the EDS, we met them and then he had the hillbilly extortionist dude and, and all that. Where'd you put

Jeff: this one, I'm gonna put this one just above infection.

Really? This was a terrible episode. What this was, Hey, hold on. Let, let me hit the, the rewind button here. There are some episodes saved only by the portrayal of the actor in the role Uhhuh. Okay. Back up to, yeah. If, if David Warner was not in this episode, it would be borderline unwatchable, but

Brent: David Warner was

Jeff: in this episode.

Yeah. Which is why I don't have, is

Brent: below soul hunter, which is why I had it at number four on that list. What I loved this episode, I, I, I loved the whole, like taking the acting aside. The the, the, the not Kosh, the Egger suit of that, that thing that was like, that was a brilliant piece of storytelling work.

The, the EDS getting to meet him jinx. So his whole storyline of being the curse of Babylon five, the dude coming on, looking for the fountain of youth or the holy grail or whatever he was looking for. But in reality, he's passing on his, his mantle, literally his mantle, his staff, his, his cloak, and jinx.

So's gonna do something with this, unfortunately, I don't think we're ever gonna see jinx. So again, no, he's just gonna go off and do whatever, but I would love to see him come back around and have this be a part of the story later on, you know, this real Peter, Peter PUE worm, tail looking dude, uh, just be awesome.

Cause he remember he left the episode wearing Uhhuh David Werner's uniform and he looked like my kid wearing my suits. Totally, totally. You know, like, like I wanna see him grow into that and, and become that. So. I quite liked this episode. Um, but we've gotta decide where we're gonna place it in our unified right.

Uh, unified deal. Um, I'm okay with it not being in a top five. What, what I'm okay with

Jeff: that. What does our, like what's six through 10 look like

Brent: right now. Okay. Six through 10 currently is believers by any means necessary parliament of dreams, born to the purple and midnight on the firing line. I could live with this

Jeff: right above parliament of dreams.

Brent: I was just thinking that, yeah, I, I can put it under, I can live with it under grail or under, by any means necessary. Yeah. But I'll die on the, it's not better than parliament of dreams or burned to the purple or midnight on firing line. Okay. Despite your protestations, that it's number three from the bottom.

You crazy? I just, all right, moving on. Yeah. All right. Eyes. This was the one with, uh, the two CYOP guys coming in Uhhuh and doing their thing. What'd you think about eyes?

Jeff: Well, hold on. I'm gonna rewind here really quick again. Some episodes are only saved by the portrayal of the actor in the role Jeffrey Combs.

Yeah. If it wasn't for Jeffrey Combs, this, I mean this, and even with him, like, um, what do we have at the bottom? We've got soul hunter and then infection. Is that what this is? Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna put this just above infection.

Brent: Well, I had, my bottom was soul hunter infection and then I actually had mind war cause I really okay.

Didn't like that. And then I had eyes. Okay. So yeah. Yeah. I'll I will, uh, I'll we'll put this or, and actually that's how we have it right now is we have mind war now, eyes infection in soul hunter. Look at that. So we'll, we'll leave it right there. We are lining up mostly. All right. Legacies. I think this was the one where we found out about the little psychic kid.

Mm-hmm like she went all Jubilee and her powers manifest. I don't remember anything else about this episode though.

Jeff: I think long enough about it. Yeah. I think that says a lot, right. That we, it was like, what was this one even about?

Brent: Right. Right. So where'd you have this episode?

Jeff: So I think I have this one just above or just below if I, if I'm seeing your list, right.

I think I have it just below parliament of dreams.

Brent: Yep. Me too. Okay. That's it. This was, this is a very, uh, and, and I don't even know, remember what this episode was about that much. I remember it being a very middle of the road episode. Mm-hmm I didn't hate it. I would totally watch it. If it came on, this is the laundry I call these laundry episodes.

Oh, this was the one.

Jeff: Um, With the Menari war leader who died and was Dylan. Yeah.

Brent: Dylan sold. Yeah. He did had to go apologize to sin Claire at

the

Jeff: end and all that. Yeah. Naroon had that. Awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brent: Yeah. And again, I would, I'm doing housework while this episode's on TV. Yeah. Kind of a thing like it's that, it's that type of an episode for me, which by the way, tons of star Trek episodes are like that.

Mm-hmm all right. Moving on. Um, we're getting real close here to the end of the season. A voice in the Wilder is part one. I'm not putting these together because these are two very different episodes. Voice in the Wilder is part one. Where'd you

Jeff: have it? I have a voice in the wilderness part one just I'd say just below survivors.

Ah,

Brent: meet too. That's exactly where I had it. Wow. Way low. It was a horrible. Like nothing happened in this episode. If I, everything happened all at the same time, I

Jeff: have it rated above soul hunter, obviously. But soul hunter has more of a place in this season than this first part episode did.

Brent: Yeah. But I didn't want to shoot myself from watching this episode the way I did soul hunter, you know?

Um, so yeah, no, I'm, I'm a hundred percent with you now. Let's go to a voice in the Wilder, in his part two, where I correctly predicted that the dude was gonna become the new battery.

Jeff: Hey, you nailed that one. Oh dude, I've got this one just above and the sky full of stars. Oh, I have

Brent: this one way higher. Yeah.

Yeah. This one was my number five. Wow. On the season I liked this episode. It was a fun episode. It was, yeah, it was a lot of fun. It wasn't very star Trek at all, but it was a ton of actually it was very star Trek. It was a ton of fun.

Jeff: Yeah. Had this top 10, but not top five.

Brent: All right. Here's our top five.

Yeah, death Walker, war prayer, SI sky full of stars, which I still can't believe that that's a high anyway, TKO signs importance. And then the bottom five of the top 10 is believers by any means necessary GRA parliament of dreams and legacies. I would venture to say this needs to at least be above believers.

I that's where I, yeah, I was gonna slot it there, but is it above signs? Importance? Don't try to think of signs, importance as important to the whole story. Just as a standalone episode, what's better signs, importance for voice in the wilderness. Part

Jeff: two. I'm gonna watch voice in the wilderness. Before I watch signs

Brent: importance.

Are you gonna watch TKO or voice in the wilderness part two TKO? Are you gonna watch sky full of stars or voice in the Wilder? In his part two?

Jeff: Probably a voice in the wilderness.

Brent: Yeah. So I'm gonna do one of these little swaps weirdy yeah. Yeah. One of these weirdy woo things. TKOs moving up to number three. Voice in the wilderness is going to number. Four two. And then I'll, I'll ask you here. What do you watch first sky full of stars or signs?

Importance, sky full of stars. Okay. Sky full stars that knocks, uh, signs, importance out of the top five. I know we just upset some people , you know, I don't get it's a better, but it's a, you talk about a standalone episode. Yeah. You know, what's the better episode. This is, this is the one we're talking about.

Okay. Moving on Babylon squared. This was the one where we found out about Babylon four and that Bing in and out of existence. And then they rescued everybody except for the one guy or something like that. What's our top two right now,

Jeff: death Walker and war prayer. I'm gonna put this right above death Walker at number one, I loved Babylon squared.

Really

loved

Brent: it. Really. I had this one at number nine. I had it in my top 10, but I didn't have it at number one by any means necessary. look at that. Uh, I don't think that's what I meant. What did I mean by any means? Yeah, I don't know. Anyway. All right. So you're putting it out up at number one. That's where I'd put it, convince me that this episode was better than death Walker.

So

Jeff: death Walker is so amazing because of the questions that posed the huge, like intergalactic political stuff and the, the questions, PAB and squared. Yeah. Was just a fantastic episode of science fiction. Right? You had time travel, you had phasing in and out. You had weird aliens that weren't explained you had mysteries around.

The one is the one Sinclair, is it Tolen why is there a blue space suit? There was so just so much going on here that was fun and exciting and only made sense because of the entire season leading up to it.

Brent: That's fair. I'm gonna slide it in at number one, you convinced me. I think you remember this episode better than I do.

um, okay, moving on. Then we got two more episodes, the quality of mercy, where do we drop quality of mercy?

This is the one, this is the one where you just referenced earlier. Franklin had a illicit clinic, but then so does this other girl in Franklin's all like my clinic's better than your clinic. Right. And, uh, somebody was going on trial something. Oh yeah. We had like the whole, yeah. Murder thing with Talia winters, which I don't actually know what came of that, but go ahead.

Jeff: I, I feel like, and I I've, I've lost track of where we are, but this is like, uh, 13 ish for me. Like not quite bottom five, but

Brent: yeah, I had this one at number seven on my list. Yeah. Yeah. I, I remember like, like it's a good episode again. I can watch this episode anytime it's on TV. Um, I liked it more than I did born to the purple.

One of the purple was real emotional. Like this one still had some, some beats to it. Um,

Jeff: you know what, you know what saves the quality of mercy for me though? I mean, honestly, right. It's lawn, lawn and line. Yeah. Like that's.

Brent: Yeah. Okay. So, so let's, let's do the litmus test. All right. What do you watch first signs, importance or quality of mercy.

What's a better episode. It's okay. To say signs, importance. Cuz we had, what do, what do you want dude? And that whole thing, right? I think

Jeff: that's where I'm going is. Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. Okay. But is it better than believers? It is. Yes it is. Yeah.

Jeff: There you go. Yes

Brent: it is. Which puts this at number eight than on our list.

Like believers should

Jeff: should be so much more, but also, I mean I think believers,

Brent: believers should be so much lower cuz it's objectively not a great episode, but it hit so emotion hard. That and, and it asked such wonderful questions and it did, it did everything that you need a sci-fi episode to do.

Mm-hmm , even though it's not a fun episode at all, like it's. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I can hear people screaming at it's like, how would you put that episode this way? That's why, that's why our last episode then Jeff Chrysalis, where do we place Chrysalis? The season finale. I really

Jeff: like this episode. Yeah.

What's our, I, I think I've

got

Brent: it. Here's our top five. Here's our top five Babylon squared death Walker. The war, prayer TKO voice in the Wilder in is part

Jeff: two. I want, I, I, I see it either just above or below war prayer.

Brent: Ooh. I'm gonna knock it down a couple spots. Yeah. I don't think it's in the top five, but I do have it at number six.

Yeah. And here's why here's, here's my reasoning for the, episode's not done. We watched this whole episode and it left so many things open. Yeah. It didn't leave us with any sense of completion, but it's not a cliff hanger all at the same time. So it is its own episode. As an episode of TV, it was a good episode.

Like that's why it finds itself so high, but it's not one that I just want to come back to wa like it, it it'd be like watching. Um, let's see. I can't even really say that it's like watching the first half of a cliff hanger and then not watching the second half. Well, I feel like

Jeff: it's, it's a season finale.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And so, like, it is, it does that, it's a seasoned finale. It's not a cliff hanger, which there's not a lot of examples of that, you know, in, in, in our, in our sphere. Right. But I think, I think that, I think it was a fun episode. It was great. It did cool stuff and it ended exactly how it should end for a season finale.

Like mm-hmm, it set everything. Moving it like, you're not gonna just watch this one as like it's a standalone episode. You're gonna watch it as it's a standalone episode that ends a really packed season. All

Brent: right. So let's apply the litmus test Chrysalis or voice in the water. Iners part two

Chrysalis. Okay. TKO or

Jeff: Chrysalis. I wanna say TKO TKO is

Brent: just, I'll give you. Yeah, no, I'll give that to you. I'll give that to you. Yeah. You wanna say TKO up, up top? I think by the way, I just here's my guess. There are gonna be people yelling at you about TKO being a hundred percent. I think there's Ely people yelling at

Jeff: you, but I'll them.

The I'll meet them in the Muto dough and we'll, we'll see.

Brent: all right. Let me run through the list and then we'll move on. This took way longer than I thought it would, but that's okay. It's 22 episodes. All right. At the top, we got Babylon squared, death Walker, the war, prayer, TKO and Chrysalis. That's our top five from season one.

Jeff, that's pretty good. And then our rounding off the top 10 is voicing in the Wilder and is part two. Sky full of stars. I'm sorry. I know folks and the sky full of stars, signs, importance the quality of mercy and believers, and then rounding out the bottom of the, of the season. Uh, the middle to the bottom, by any means necessary grail parliament of dreams, legacies, born to the purple midnight on the fire line survivors voicing the Wilders part one, the gathering mind war, surprise that one wasn't higher eyes infection, and then no surprise soul hunter at the very, very bottom.

Jeff: Well, now that we've put together the definitive rankings for Babylon five C definitive one, no one

Brent: can argue, bring it all.

Jeff: I think from here we should, um, I think I know who yours was, but let's talk about who our favorite, uh, regular or recurring. Characters were in the first

Brent: season. Okay. I have two answers here. Mm-hmm I have the, my favorite character. And then which character would I want to be? Oh, wow. Like if I was cast in this show, which role would I want to play versus who's actually my favorite character in the show.

You said you think you might know who mine is. Who do you think it

Jeff: is? I'm gonna say it's a VVA.

Brent: You think I wanna play? I VVA? No, I think that she's your favorite. No, you're absolutely right. IVA. I, and that's no surprise. If you guys have been listening to the show, I've said it so many times absolutely have fallen in love with IVA.

And I don't mean that in a creepy, I got a crush on her kind of a way. She's a beautiful woman. I think I made a comment in one episode where she's waking up in the morning. I'm like, how is she waking up this beautiful every morning. She has no bedhead her MAs in perfect. Her mouth tastes like carpet apparently though, but whatever um, no, like she's a great character.

Yeah. She's funny. She's got wit she has all those Russian sayings, which I just, it it's such good writing the way she, she goes to that. She kicks ass when, when Sinclair's like, get these people off the bridge or the commands bubble, whatever that thing is called. Um, how many times do we see her do that?

Like kick people off the SA at least two or three times throughout the course of the season. And they like where they wouldn't listen to Sinclair, they followed her. She looks at somebody at one point and said, I do hope you're going to resist you know, or what was it? It was, uh, Leona. She's like, you know, we're doing all this stuff.

You could have asked and she go, okay, fine. I'm gonna ask. Nope. Still can't do it. I was like, yes. Um, but yeah, she's, she's a great character. She's an absolute great character. Yeah. How about you, Jeff? My favorite was GU Baldy. Um, Yeah. Yeah. I can't, I can't, I can't hurt you with that one too. He's great. I

Jeff: wanted, I wanted really bad to say like lawn or Jaar, but Uhhuh.

They were, I mean, they were in like less than half of the episodes. That's true. You

Brent: remember how many episodes we went through were like, yeah, there's just no lawn or Jaar in this episode. Yeah. I wonder if we go through this list, how many of these episodes at the bottom just don't have lawn

Jeff: and Jaar? I know it's what is the common factor in all of these,

Brent: right, right.

Somebody out there is doing the math on it

Jeff: right now. Oh, oh totally, totally. but I think, you know, we talked a lot early on about gear all these specifically and how we didn't know him. And what we did know about him was creepy. Right? Like the, the, yeah, yeah. Creeping on Tolia, winters, the duck Dodgers stuff or whatever.

But as they developed him, I think of the three, right. Garal Sinclair Ivanova. I, he and Ivanova for sure are the most developed of them. Mm-hmm but I think, I think that we've gotten the most dives into Garabaldi.

Brent: I, I think I could say this Ivanova and Garabaldi are developed, but the difference is Ivanova was fully realized from her first episode.

Oh, immediately

Jeff: you

knew

Brent: exactly who she was IVA didn't change from episode one to episode 22, we just found out more about her and it all made sense. Aldi seemed to change over the course of the season, meaning like they just rewrote him a little different here and there and there might have been stuff like, they always knew, like if you go back and watch, he's probably drinking water the entire time.

Yep. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's probably something subtle like that be rule. No, they knew who he was. They wrote him as creepy mm-hmm totally. And he got way less creepy by the end. I mean, dude's building a motorcycle in his living room for God's sakes, like, you know, Gerald always great. What they didn't do that with or who they didn't do that with was Sinclair.

That was that's our problem with Sinclair. Like they tried to develop Sinclair, they tried to do stuff with him. It just never stuck, you know? Yeah. They didn't and we still, still don't know. Okay. I'm gonna give you my other one now. Yeah. Who do you wanna do? If I was casting the oh, lawn, I wanna be lawn. He, he is by far the funniest, just the he's got so much emotional range, like cuz we see him like down and out depressed at some points and you see him.

Absolutely. Just sticking it to Jaar. You know, Jaar has no sense of humor. Like Jaar is a little baby and, and lawn's just, and then we get full frontal lawn at some point in the season. Oh yep. That happens. Which is weird. Thanks for bringing that mean this man's he's in the casinos. He's in the bars. He's in the, the, the other joints, adult only joints, which.

Is not okay. Maybe I don't wanna be, I don't know. I , that's not my scene. That's all I'm saying. Like in real life, Brent, that's not my scene, but it's a fun character to play. I think lawn would be an absolute hoot

Jeff: to play.

I don't know who I would want to play to be honest. Like lawn's the easy answer. I think for like, for all the reasons you just said, you're like, oh my gosh, that'd be so much fun. That'd be great in a way. I kind of want to be cautious cuz apparently I just sit in my room and watch TV all day. like just stare into the guardian of forever and call it there, go.

So those are our regular and recurring characters. But I think, I bet we could agree on who the best. Guest star of the season was yeah. Mm.

Brent: Yeah. I mean you, yeah. How many times did you say this episode was saved by somebody's? Uh, acting Uhhuh yeah. And by somebody being on and it's, I mean, it's, it's gotta be check off, right.

Well,

Jeff: I think you can totally check that box off real quick. Yeah, absolutely.

Brent: Yeah, no, it's not him. Uh, all due respect to the greats, whatever his

Jeff: name is, Walter kig.

Brent: Yeah, that guy right there. I should have known that. Wow. I trees are like here. I, sorry, I just, there you go. Mind, mind blank. Right there. It got wiped.

Uh, no, it's it's it's David Warner. It's gotta be David Warner. What he, the gravitas he brought to the show in one episode has carried through so many episodes, a hundred percent. And you know, I had him, I had that episode listed at four, truthfully on the strength of his performance alone, alone, alone. But I mean, I do, I, I meant every word of what I liked about that episode.

But his performance sold it much in the same way. I guarantee you, if somebody else had played that, uh, Kardasian torture in chain of command part two mm-hmm , that episode would be entirely forgettable, except you had David Warner going against Patrick Stewart in a torture chamber. Oh my. I mean that episode just Sears into your brain.

Did

Jeff: you know, he only had like days to prepare for that role. He was a last minute plugin. Yeah. Cuz

Brent: somebody else was supposed to do that episode and they had to back out and he just brought like he was reading the line, like he had cue cards yeah. For his lines. Cuz he didn't have time to memorize his lines

Jeff: and he defined, he defined that role.

And in this one he was playing. A rubber flappy, tentacle thing. , you know, and he sold it. Like I

Brent: believed everything, both, both in real life, a rubber Flay tentacle, but also as an actor, cuz let's be honest, jinx. So was not our, it was not a stellar casting spot either.

Jeff: Not at all. Hey Brent.

Brent: Yes.

Jeff: What do you think?

Is it time? Should we do the, should we do the drawing? Should we do the giveaway? Uh,

Brent: no, I think we should. No, I don't think so. Let's save it for the end. No, I'm not ready to get rid of this thing yet. You're you're precious right there. Yes. Hi bras. Yes, it's mine. It's mine. He shot my dad. He's

Jeff: Trixy we are Brent.

We are going to give this thing away. No, it's gonna happen, but yeah. Yeah. Why don't you hold onto it for a few more minutes. Okay. I'm a generous, I'm a generous person, you know, it's cool. Is that six months ago, you and I didn't know anything about this show. Mm-hmm at all, like nothing. Now, here we are.

We've watched an entire season of it and we still have so much that we don't know at all. Yeah. What would you say, um, on the season, like the biggest questions you still have open or, or what were kind of the biggest reveals that that really, really hit you?

Brent: Um, so I, I think the biggest question of the entire season has been, why did the Mumbar pull back during the earth war?

Yeah. What happened in that 24 hours with Sinclair and that dead hole of his memory that caused the Mumbar. To pull back. We know that, that the other side of that, just to further that question mark quite a bit is that there was a whole list of people, much higher than Sinclair that the Mumbar said no to.

And they gotta say, and who was gonna command the station. And they stopped with Sinclair and said, he's our dude. You know, mm-hmm um, and, uh, we, we know that the dude came out and is like, Hey, if he ever remembers any of this, then we're gonna have to kill him. And you got the whole great council and what's going on there.

Why is Dylan here? And not part of the great council, uh, and that ends in this whole prophecy thing and her going into the cocoon and all like this is all wrapped together somehow mm-hmm . And I think that's, that's the biggest mystery. And I am unsatisfied with what they have told us about this mystery.

So far, like, I, I, they, they continually like try to answer something, but then they drop a whole bunch of new questions and they never actually answer, like, I'm okay. If you answer a question and that develops into a bunch more questions mm-hmm but they never, they never really felt like they answered.

They never told us what happened in that 24 hours. We just found out that it did. And we know that Sinclair remembers. Yeah. And we know that the lens's part of the great council, but like, we don't really have any answers just more and more and more questions. So

Jeff: it really is like the click bait thing.

Right. Of just like, Hey, you know, there's a missing 24 hours in this thing where a lot of things happened. In fact, what we know is that the gray council eventually, uh, called for a, for a surrender mm-hmm , but let's talk more about what happened in those missing 24 hours after this. When we talk a little bit about this, it's just, they kind of keep reframing and stretching out, but.

Yeah. They give you this little nugget each time where you're like, oh, okay. So there, there was a triangle cross. He was hung up on, oh, now he knows it's that was doing it. My fear on that. Cuz that's my big question as well through this. But my fear is that this is the next four seasons. Yeah. And I really, yeah, I really hope we get, I maybe not resolved in this one or whatever, but I got just, just tell us what happened and start telling the

Brent: rest of the story.

Just tell, tell us what Sinclair remembers. You know what I mean? Like yeah. At like at some point, okay. I'm gonna go back to the Harry Potter series. One of the, one of the things that works so good about the Harry Potter D regardless of how people feel about the author right now, what makes it such a masterpiece is there's the story of what's happening right now?

And then the mystery of what happened prior. To the story that we're reading right now mm-hmm and there was like, we didn't get the whole story, really, even, even all the way through the, in, through like halfway through book seven, you know, but we got enough answers from through book one, and then we got a few more answers in book two, and we got a few more answers in book three, like actual answers that led that questions piece together and they led to more questions, but it was piecing things together.

Mm-hmm currently we don't have anything to piece together. We just have more questions upon questions. So I need to know, I, I, I need the answers to start coming to this question. Yeah. You know, um, to justify what, like, why did Dylan go into the cocoon? Okay. It's a prophecy. Okay. What's the prophecy like, like, I, I need answers as to why not just she's doing it because, you know yeah.

The other one that I have, and, and I think this is really the, the other, I don't know if this is. Two separate ones or, or not like there's the one, like S a mastermind of something like, what's his deal. Mm-hmm . And we've talked about that a little bit. Like, I mean, the man just comes in and says no, and, and, you know, like I said, it's come to a spot where anytime somebody comes through the jump kit, I think it's the Rolon yeah.

About to do something, but delin mentions a few times the, the, that, that prophecy lady that came through and signs, importance. Yeah. Laira Laira yeah. Um, she talked about the shadow, the shadows coming, and then, and like, I, I, there is this really cool part that I don't think I talked about it on our episode, but I did on the recap or the, the, the watch video, Jeff mm-hmm , there's this part where he's in the, the, what do you want guy?

Uh, Morden, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's in with the lens saying, what do you want, what do you want, what do you want? And she has that, like the triangle things coming through her head, and she's like, oh my gosh, And she turns around and looks at him and all of a sudden the lights on him go down and he's in a shadow and she's like, get out.

And then the lights come back up and he is like, what do you want? What do you want? So the, what is this shadow like? And my best guess is it's, it's a harbinger of death, kind of a thing, like, like a grim Reaper only they actually like are a form yeah. Of people like, but, but what is the shadow? Uh, does it have anything to do with earth?

What's going on? What does it have to do with Kosh? Cause I feel like there's gotta be a connection somewhere. Cause remember he Mor and KSH had that thing of like, yep. They're not here. They're not yours yet. Or they're, they're not for you. Yeah. They're not for you stay away. Like, like something there's a connect to there.

So I, those are probably, I think the two biggest ones that are outstanding to me right now, the Mbar earth thing. And then this whole, what do you want guy? Is he a shadow? What is a shadow in the future and what's going on with Kosh?

Jeff: Yeah, I think all I have to add there is on the quest. Cause I have the same questions.

I think I have three to add, well four. Okay. Three real ones. One is how does Epsilon three and draw plugged into that great machine. Oh yeah. How does that interact with all of this? What's the deal? What's the deal with Babylon for, and the great war and Zora and the one and that whole thing that doesn't really fit anything else.

It's literally like, Hey, here's the timeline? That somewhat makes sense. We have huge gaps and holes in it. Right. And then here, 40 pieces over you have one other puzzle piece and nothing, no connective tissue.

Brent: Would you be satisfied if you found out that what happened to Babylon? One, two and three was literally somebody came in and destroyed.

Like, they just didn't want it to be there. And by the time they got to Babylon four, like they were okay with it or maybe they weren't okay with maybe they were on their way. And then somebody B flipped babble on four.

Jeff: So that's kind of my theory on one, two and three. Is that, yeah, I'm not gonna throw it just on home guard cuz we've learned that there's a lot of other earth stuff going on.

Yeah. But I'll say the anti galactic movement on earth went and because earth dollars tax dollars were going to build these things or like, heck no not they went and blew it up and yeah. And then they went to do it to babble on four

Brent: and it was maybe it's the shadow thing maybe or something, I don't know something's going on.

That's gonna force it, you know, to happen. Um, anyway,

Jeff: the other, the other question I had was, um, How, how are they gonna show us that the great egg is actually the answer to every question that we have

Brent: yeah. I'm telling you no, Kosh is the great egg. He is he is, he is the guy. Like he is their God and they just didn't know it.

Right.

Jeff: And then my last one, that's, that's a little, a little dark that I don't remember if I said in, uh, Chrysalis are not, but Uhhuh, what TV taught us was if you get engaged and not married in the same episode, there's a good chance. Not good things are gonna happen to one of you. So is it Sinclair or Catherine Sai that gets, uh, I don't know, something not good

Brent: happening to them.

Sinclair's on the DVD

Jeff: cover. So, so pro yeah. Sorry, Catherine. Sorry,

Brent: Catherine. Right. Although I will say that, wait, that didn't quite happen though, with, um, Cisco and Cassidy Yates, but well, you could

Jeff: say, but it was like two episodes though, but you could say it didn't go well, because he, he left his literally pregnant wife to go live as a God.

Brent: Yeah. Well, and I think it was literally like you, they were, it was all a part of the, the, like the arc 10 episode arc. Yeah. So it was kind of all the same episode anyway, that it happened in. Um, but anyway, all right, well, Jeff, I think then we have reached that part of the show where we're gonna boil this all down and see if the show has any of that star Trek equality to it.

Maybe it has a deep moral message. Wait, this is sounding really familiar. Is this, are we trying to do this with this, uh, wrap up

Jeff: show with the season?

Brent: Oh for the season. Okay. Well let's, let's continue then. Yeah. We're gonna see if maybe it has a deep moral message to it, or maybe we're holding up a mirror to society.

Are we giving a hope for the future? What are we doing? We're gonna rate this season on a scale of zero to five deltas and Jeff, last week we talked about adding a new rating because we've, we've kind of said, we've come to a point where like Babylon five has now established itself as a Babylon five.

It's not a star Trek ripoff. It's not some sort of second rate sci-fi show. It really is its own show. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's, it's not an allegory, like what star Trek is, you know, we star Trek is allegorical. That's that's by its nature. What it is mm-hmm this is not, this is its own thing. And I know we talked about using, you talked about doing the, the Mumbar Ang thing.

Yeah. Little on the blue, on the that's that's a little weird. If I could make a change to that. Let's rate it in star furries, cuz star

Jeff: furries are awesome. Star Furies are awesome. Star

Brent: furries are awesome. So we're gonna rate this based on deltas. How star Trek is it? How much of a hope does it? Does it give us mm-hmm because that's sort of the gimmick of the whole show, but also how Babylon five is the show.

Oh yeah. And we're gonna, as people who've we are so well versed in what Babylon five is. We've only seen one season and we are now experts

Jeff: on the show. So we're veteran Babylon five podcasters. Now we did a whole season. So I think, and, and Brent, we published the definitive ranking of all of the season one episodes.

Yeah. Yes.

Brent: We get to do this. All right, Jeff. So what is it, how many deltas do you give the season and how many star furries do you give the season? I'm gonna stop asking whether or not we should have watched it before, because we just should have we've

Jeff: we've answered that. Yeah, I think it's, this is really hard because I think that the star Trek like messages that we get are rarely the intention of the episode.

It's a lot of times when we had this conversation a few weeks ago where they're just lines, you know, that are dropped like, oh, that's a really good, a really good line. And if I riff on this in my own brain for a while, I can get to a really good star Trek, uh, message. But there are definitely moments, right?

I go back to infection and Sinclair confront confronting that a Karin weapon guy, you know, mm-hmm Sinclair again, lawyering is way through the labor dispute, all those things. A lot of the stuff that de and draw set us up for it's really great star Trek, like moments. I think the season. I don't think it was like you said, this wasn't an allegory.

This wasn't meant as a series of lessons on how we get better as a species. This was a season about setting the stage for an epic, epic story just happens to weave in these moments of reflection in some honestly pretty scathing commentary of the state of the world today in 2022, even though it was released in 1994, given that I think I'm gonna give this, I'm gonna give this two deltas on the season.

Cuz I think that it definitely hit some stuff, but not a lot, but as star theories mm-hmm well, we just went through all the episodes and this was a pretty inconsistent inconsistent season, right? The highs were pretty good, but the lows were very, very low. So zero to five star theories is what we're doing.

I'll do three, three star theories for the season. What do you think? So

Brent: I would just like to remind people that Jeff and I do not share notes and how this works. Uh, I also gave it two deltas I did, I gave it two deltas and I said, this is what I said. I said, there were times where this show was so star Trek.

You just put it in a different universe and you'd swear that it was Jean Roddenberry's mouth out there talking, but it was usually very much its own thing. It was a single line or two out of an episode. Occasionally the episode would lend to the whole thing. But not very much. I can definitely understand if this show was pitched as a new star Trek series to Paramounts why Rick Berman and crew would've ultimately passed on it because it's not a, this is not a star Trek series.

This does not exist to give you hope for the future or to go that route Michael pillar would be like, yeah, this is we're gonna create a good show. We're gonna focus on characters like Michael pillar would eat this up. Yeah. But you know, as far as, as doing what star Trek does, this is they, there is some crossover, there's some, some layover between the two.

It's not very much. And so I, I say two deltas. Um, I think you probably could get two deltas out of, just about any show sci-fi or not, right? Like, yes. That is a lesson you should be able to live by. Yeah. I do still think that sci-fi more so than any other genre out there should be able to give us a hope for a better future, unless it's just trying to destroy your faith in humanity, because you have that sort of a, of a, of a outlook on life.

You know, I look at a battle star Galactica, uh, maybe one of the best, first seasons in all of sci-fi. I didn't even mention that one earlier. There you go. Yeah, but I mean, you talk about the scrappiness of humanity. Being able to stay alive in the face of ablation, like. You know, what do you do as humanity?

When you have infiltrators right there in your midst, and you don't even know who they are, you can't even tell the difference. Like it that's what sci-fi does. And, uh, that being said, I think that Babylon five has said its own course, but as you said, it was very inconsistent. I still don't feel like I really know what Babylon five is just yet.

Right. Is this political intrigue? Is that what this is? Is this, uh, go in space and shoot 'em up space. Are we, are we moving towards a big war? Like, you know, these space nine and move towards a big war by the end? Is that what we're moving towards again? That still could go back to political intrigue.

Mm-hmm is this a commentary on stuff at the time? Is this an original work? Like, I, I don't really know, but I do feel like Babylon five has said its own course. So like you, I gave it three star theories. Well,

Jeff: look at that,

Brent: Brent. Yes, sir.

Jeff: It's time. No, it's

Brent: time. No, just we got more to do, man. We got, I know, I know the show's getting long.

This is, this is a, this is a wrap up. This is a whole season wrap up. This is going to be a double length episode. We're pretty close to that. Anyway, we're getting there and we're not there yet. We still have more to talk about, man. I'm I'm I'm not ready to give this thing away yet. Well, you know what I

Jeff: think, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna flip a coin.

Wait, I don't have a coin, so we're just gonna do it. it's time. Brent. You've gotta let go. Can I count on you here? No,

Brent: God. Okay. Fine. We're gonna do this. So again, I'm just gonna sit here and pet its while you right. Destroy my

Jeff: dreams. There we go. A whole bunch of these in here, Uhhuh. So let me shake it up a little.

So, so just,

just

Brent: anyone who wrote in a, a, a review, whether it was on apple or good pods or wherever people, audible, any place where people could leave a review and then they emailed in a screenshot

Jeff: yep. Emailed or tweeted it to us. Yeah. So

Brent: our awesome, our awesome listeners, right? I guess I don't mind this going to an awesome listener.

I am, although I wouldn't mind keeping it to be honest,

Jeff: like as I'm reaching through here, I'm like, there are a lot of these, we, you all really stepped up for this. All right, here we go. I keep pumping my mic. When I do this

Brin it's Brin, B R Y N, Uhhuh Brin, TA TA Brin, TA like a Eagles talent, Bri. Brent Taan

Brent: well, okay. Taan uh, I guess we'll be sent, just email us in your, um, I guess, email us in your address. Um, and I'll get the jump mail to you.

Jeff: Jump Brent. Bri Taan is this yeah. Brent Allen, Brent, that did you, weren't

Brent: supposed to realize that,

Jeff: wow.

I'm gonna have a talk with my daughter because that's literally the only way this could have gotten in there. That's uh, .

Brent: Well, we do know that your daughter and my son are doing their own show here

Jeff: soon. So exactly I okay. Wow.

Brent: Wow. You can't, you can't blame me for trying. That's pretty. I told you

Jeff: what if I didn't draw it?

What if I hadn't drawn it like

Brent: Jeff, do you really think that we've gotten 42 or 47 reviews out there total? How

Jeff: if this one's Brent

Brent: talent, go ahead. Whichever name you draw next. That's the one that's getting it. Okay. This one real. And if it's Brent Allen, then it's staying with Brent Allen. I'm just telling you that right now,

Jeff: TSF 76.

What is that? Ts F you just wrote,

Brent: you just wrote a code. What is TSF? 70 TK, 4

Jeff: 29. Why aren't you at your post?

Brent: why aren't you let me look here. Alpha six you're in med lab right now. Like, is this a, is this so that's a person that's somebody's like handle

Jeff: or whatever. Yeah. That's the, uh, and this was, I'm gonna, oh, I should have prepped a little better for this.

Gimme a second.

Brent: Sorry. Yeah, you gotta be honest. That's an awesome, that's an awesome gamer tag. Isn't it? It is pretty great, Brent. Like, it's not, it's my name, but it's not my name

Jeff: brain. I feel like I remember this one. I think this was a pretty epic.

Epic.

Brent: Wasn't a LA it, it wasn't the guy who called me chuckle nugget. Was

Jeff: it or the, or the guy who called us? Uh, was it mucus, mucus covered,

Brent: covered Manchild, right. Or whatever. that guy? Oh gosh. Why is this so hard to find? That'd be hilarious. If that person is the one who won this thing and I would override it and say, no, I'm keeping it.

If he did. You're like, no, I'm pretty sure. Right now I am riffing for the folks on YouTube. While Jeff tries to look up the guy's review to read it, and this will get cut out of the podcast. So anyway, yes. If you guys would like to see me, actually keep this thing, please go ahead and comment down below and say, go ahead, Brent.

Just keep it, just keep it TSF 46, whatever his name is, doesn't deserve it. You by all means for all of your hard. Look how awesome this

Jeff: is, man. So if you remember this goes back, he, uh, he had sent this in, um, his name's Trevor, Trevor had sent this in before the contest, but he screenshotted his review and sent it in he's the one mm-hmm who shared the story of meeting, uh, Claudia Christian at a Babylon five conference and how oh yeah.

Sharing the impact that she and the show had on his life. That's I, I can't, I mean,

Brent: there's some great. And then like the next week sent us an email telling us why. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I can't think this is great. Yeah. Okay. Trevor, congratulations, Trevor. Uh, for real, uh, send in your email, just email us in, um, what's our email address?

Jeff: Jeff Babylon five first gmail.com or actually Trevor and I emailed, uh, back and forth. So he can just, if he's still got that around, he can respond to that. So he can respond

Brent: to that Bab your first we'll get this sent out to you or don't and I'll keep it. So send your address. Yes, you should not do that.

Yes.

Jeff: Well, Brent Uhhuh, that's it for the first season of Babylon five. Ooh, second season, the second season. So this was called signs. Importance was what the season was the second season Uhhuh. It's called the coming of shadows. Now, Brent, and I like to call dude. We just said

that

Brent: we did, we just talked about that a little bit.

This is gonna be a good one. This is the thing, this, this, so shadow is a thing. Like it's gonna be an important thing, right? I

Jeff: think so you get to guess, right? This is our game. We like to guess what's coming up based on the title loan, but today, because the season wrap up, let's give our thoughts on just what we think is gonna happen in the season in general, but also the next episode Uhhuh, which is called points of departure.

So what's your high

Brent: level prediction? The, the coming of shadows. I still think shadows have something to do with cash. Okay. And I think what this means is we're finally over the course of the season, like this is where things are gonna go bad, right? Like the Vorlon are gonna take over they're coming. Right.

They're the shadows they're, they're coming. Uh, where, where K said to, to Morden, he's like, they're not for you. We're gonna get the who they're for. And like, these guys are like, they're gonna take over and they're gonna maybe even take over Babylon five or shut down Babylon five or something of that nature.

I think that's probably where this one's gonna go. And we're gonna find out a lot about the shadows and you know, the harbingers of death that they are for society. And maybe this winds up, like everybody has to team up against the Volans by the end or something like that. I don't know. Uh, but that's my guess the coming of shadows, like maybe they won't take over just yet, but they're suddenly gonna be like a super forefront force.

Like they, they will be the clear and present danger of the show. Okay. If that makes sense, like maybe not quite big, bad, but actually I guess that's probably what they are. They are the clear and present danger of the show, the coming of shadows. I agree.

Jeff: Except I don't think everybody's gonna die. I don't think it's gonna be the war lawn.

I think the shadows are the end of, at the end of Chrysalis with more than going around. He was in a room and like these little invisible, weird walkie things came and like he told him, he is like, Hey guys, it's cool. These, these guys are lawns down. Like lawn's our guy. I think they're the shadows. And I think the conflict, I think, I don't think we're too far off.

I think the conflict is gonna be between these shadows, Uhhuh and the VLAN, but everyone else is gonna be kind of caught in the middle and they're gonna, you know, and I think it will come down to who is it for? Oh, are the Vorlon

Brent: gonna be the heroes. Maybe like, they're like, they're the jerks, but they save everybody right.

By the end. Like, it's like, they are the mastermind, but they're just holding it all together.

Jeff: Yeah. What do you think the episode's gonna be points of departure?

Brent: Um, I'm gonna say that this will be an episode where everybody splits. Okay. So, you know, Babylon five was the last best hope for peace, where everybody came together.

And so th there's gonna be like the, the Mumbar gonna go this way and the earthlings will go this way and the Centara go that way. And the Nan will go that way. And like, everybody will, uh, if, if not physically take their ball and go home, like from a political standpoint, like the align, the, the, the peaceful alliances are broken would be my guess.

Okay.

Jeff: What do you think. So I think this is gonna be like it's the six months later, right? Like, like there's gonna be a lot of time that has elapsed between Chrysalis and points of departure.

Brent: Will the lens still be in her little

Jeff: cocoon? I think it's gonna be her emerging from her cocoon for six months. I don't know if it's months cocoon.

Well, she's a pretty like fully grown minbar woman. Yeah. So I'm yeah. I don't think it's gonna be like a, you know,

Brent: caterpillar in there for, is it gonna be the same actress? Are we re-casting delin? Is that what's happening? I hope not. Are we re casting her? I

Jeff: really, I really really came to like her, especially in, in voice, in the wilderness, like that was there for me was, but, so we're gonna spend some time on her, but I think the points of departure are gonna be earth focusing on the changes that president Clark has been making in the couple months.

Oh wow. Since he became and how essentially this is where earth starts to depart earth force Uhhuh from, from Babylon five, like we're gonna stop sending you money. We're gonna stop supporting. this, and this is the points of departure. Are, are earth kind of,

Brent: is earth gonna, well, I mean, does that mean that earth is pulling out of Babylon five in which case?

Sinclair and GU Baldi. And Ivanova Ivanova Ivanova are, are,

Jeff: come on John Brady chuckle nugget. What are you doing? What are you

Brent: doing? No respect for the content or characters?

Jeff: No, I think they'll still be there because I don't think they're gonna pull out. It's gonna be one of those political necessities to still be on the station and participating, but we're not gonna okay.

Just go. They're gonna be the ni three of you know, or yeah. Yeah. We'll send David Warner out there to represent the Federation, but we don't care and you're getting no resources. There you go. Well, Hey, we're gonna find out right here next week. We next week, dive in to season two of Babylon five. Thank you all so much for being on this wild ride with us.

If you haven't already, please, please subscribe and then leave us a review. Cool things happen when you leave us a review and thank you to TSF 76 for sending your awesome review in, and don't forget to send us your info so we can send you your awesome Babylon five model. And thank you again to wash at the David wash on.

Yeah.

Brent: Super shout out to wash, man. Yeah. He's he's such a cool guy. I've I've, I've uh, known wash, uh, through podcasting for quite a while now. And, and he's a cool dude. We've had lots of conversations. He's he's a great guy. Yeah, it's

Jeff: super cool. Love, love the stuff. Really great. Well, Brent, until next time.

Brent: Hey Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff. Okay. We we've gotta settle this man. We've been doing this all season long. Okay. We get to this part of the show and we come up with some little gimmick. We don't really know how we're gonna end the show and we try to do we need to land, I, we just need to fix this for the coming season.

Like how we're gonna close this piece out.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree.