Oct. 24, 2022


They're going to kill him!!

Two veteran Star Trek podcasters watch Babylon 5 for the first time. Brent Allen and Jeff Akin search for Star Trek like messages in this series, deciding if they should have watched it sooner.

President Santiago has died. Long live President Clark! Jeff and Brent are surprised by the return of the Shadows and Delenn is turning into a...butterfly?? This is the Season 1 finale!

Babylon 5 For the Fist Time podcast logo with the Patreon logo on top of it


Jeff: Welcome to Babylon five for the first time, not a star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin and I'm watching Babylon five for the first

Brent: time. And I'm jump ready day chuckle nugget. And I'm also watching Babylon five for the first time. Jeff and I are two veteran star Trek, podcasters watching Babylon five for the first time, searching for those messages, the hope of the future, those things that make people say, Hey, this is just a rip off of star Trek or star Trek ripped off Babylon five or whatever else that's out there.

We're overanalyzing it, trying to mine, this show for all of its yummy goodness. Uh, and, and just enjoy this show as we have been for the

Jeff: last season. And while this is not a star Trek podcast, we are star Trek podcast S and so to keep us honest, we have the rule of three, each one of us has only three star Trek references that we can make per episode up to three.

And whenever we happen to make one of those, you're gonna hear that buzzer. Once we get to three Brent, no MOS, no MOS. Um, carry on, carry on one of my favorite things that happens out in the world, in the community of the people that watch and listen to this podcast are when people buzz themselves. When they comment, when they send in an email, anything like that, and they make a nice, fun reference.

You doing okay? Are you, are you all right? Yes. Carry

Brent: on carry. Is it, is it cold in here? All of a sudden, is

Jeff: anyone cold in here? Let me just move my picture of water right here. Oh God. keep that thing in your

Brent: shirt belly. I, I still can't believe it. Jeff. I'm still on full frontal

Jeff: lawn from last week. He slapped it on the carts multiple times.

I don't wanna touch those. Ooh, burn them, burn them with fire and run seating.

Brent: Give me hand sanitizer, but can you appreciate

Jeff: the innovation? He's like, wow, what can I do to grab some well, you know, I got these things that aren't doing much

Brent: else did, like he ever have to go in and like measure it and see if it was long enough to reach around.

Jeff: And is that a thing in the Anari thing? And like, what do they measure? Like, is it from the base that they go in and just make sure it can go or like, how do they even do

Brent: that? Is that, is it a thing in this entire culture? Like, do you know how long my tentacles are? I can reach all the way across

Jeff: the table.

Well, you gotta stop

Brent: Jeff. This is a family friendly show. You're skating,

Jeff: really close to a couple

Brent: of things. It's we're just talking about tentacles, man. He's a, he's an octopus pod

Jeff: thing. Send, send, talk. Tous sure. Something like that. Yeah, sure. Hey, you know what? People often will buzz the. In their, uh, their references to things they said, normally in this section, we like to read the reviews that come in for us.

We're holding off on that right now, because we have a lot coming in. Brent will talk about it in a minute, but we have a super, super cool giveaway coming up next week right here. And it'll tell you how you do that, but it involves doing, uh, reviews. So I'm gonna share with you just a message that came in from our website and one from YouTube.

On YouTube. Chris Nielsen gives us a little hope for the future of Babylon five. He says, I can say with no spoilers that in future seasons, the acting is noticeably improved. Maybe they add more money for casting. Whew. I am really glad to hear that. Me too. Yeah. And then our website, Babylon five first.com.

That's the number five and the word first.com mark sends and says that there's a lot of background explanations for many of the things that happen, like cast not being available or developing problems or some stuff is a background joke. Some of the actors have real life relationships that juxtaposes jokes when their characters interact.

I don't know of how much of that you need to know, cuz it could lead to spoilers. But once your project is done, looking that stuff up could be a really good time

Brent: that I'm down for. Totally. Yep. That I'm

Jeff: down for. Absolutely. And what I know, so I'm gonna call out not by name, but some of our YouTube, um, people who we like Brenton, we love the comments.

Love them, please. Please know, spoilers and, and, and, and you might not think this is a spoiler, right? But this is a really good example. Here's what I. Uh, Jerry Doyle and the actor who portrays Talio winters are married. So are they? Oh yeah. So they're married. And, uh, so this thing that mark says totally makes like now it's kind of hilarious, like the really cringy, creepy, horrible way that Garabaldi treats Talia is kind of funny when you know that, like it changes it a little bit.

You don't know that it's still just really creepy. Thanks for sharing that mark. And we look forward to looking back and seeing the other cool relationships, Brent. Yes. Tell people how they can win that incredible model of Babylon five you've got there.

Brent: Right? Well, I, I gotta tell you, this model is gonna be so hard for you guys to win.

You're not even, it's not even gonna be worth it to do it. It's it's not like Jeff. I might just have to keep it. Yeah. Because like, nobody's gonna want to do what we're requiring of them to do, but I will tell you guys, here's what you gotta do. You gotta go over an apple podcast or anywhere where you can leave a review.

That's what we, that's what we would like to ask you to do for us. Go leave us a review at whichever platform you have done. So, and then here's what we need you to do, cuz this is how we're gonna like know we need you to take a screenshot of it and email it to us at Babylon five first. That's the number five, the word first Babylon five first gmail.com.

Or if you don't want to email it, tweet it at us. DM. Just tag us in the tweet that'll work too. And as long as you do that, then that will make you entered into win. And I hear some people out there saying, well, I've already left a review. Well, you know what guys, if you've already left a review, yours counts as well.

You're in just go take the screenshot and say, Hey, this one was mine. That's all you gotta do. And you're gonna be entered into when this super cool 3d printed station replica of the station of babble on five. This is gonna be. Our good friend wash, designed and printed and sent this out for us to actually use as a giveaway.


Jeff: is awesome. You can check him out on Twitter at the David wash. And if you're listening to this on your, your podcast app, you don't normally come to YouTube, just come in here and hit the little timestamp. And, uh, look, just come look at the station. Like it's incredible. A little, a little, one other piece of logistics.

So the we're gonna name the winner in our recap, which is on Halloween. It's on October 31st. Is it really? It is. That's when we're

Brent: doing it. Okay. Wow. Yeah. I guess it's like a week

Jeff: from now. I know we're there. Wow. That's that's Halloween. Okay. Gonna happen, but so

Brent: wait, wait, how's that gonna work? Because my kids are gonna be like, dad, dad, we're gonna go trick or treating,

Jeff: you know, we have babble on five to talk about.

I think your kids can wait. That's fair enough. You tell him, Jeff said, tell him that right. Kids

Brent: candy will still be there. There's not that many kids out right

Jeff: now. Yeah. It's not a big deal. It's fine. But to help us out so we can be fair. We'll probably be taking things that we receive by like, you know, that Sunday, the 30th to the latest we can, but like if you send it in it, like, you know, I don't know 2:00 AM on, on Halloween.

We're probably not gonna get to it in time. So what I'm saying. Go do the re in fact, in fact, go ahead and pause. It's cool. We'll wait, we'll sit here. Pause, go and do the review and then come back and just hit play again. So we'll give you a couple, couple seconds to do that. Well, for those of us, let's get, let's get to the matter at hand.

And it's quite a matter for those of us who have not watched this in quite a long time. Possibly as many as 28 years, those who aren't watching at all are just simply listening along to with us here. Tell us what Chrysalis is all about. Buckle

Brent: in guys. This is a long one I had to actually put on my glasses.

You look smart just to get through this. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much happened in this episode, guys. I I'm actually going to and try to, instead of walking through the episode, I'm just gonna try to put the storylines together, if that makes sense and not try to cross them over, like always it's an ordinary normal day on Babylon five.

How do we know that it's a normal ordinary? Well, lawn and Jaar are fighting this time. It's over quadrant 37 as usual. They're arguing over who gets to use it and how they use it. And lawn says, well, it was a part of the treaty we get to be there. And Jaar is like, yeah, we don't really recognize that treaty since we had to sign it under duress.

And it's not really a treaty at that point. Well, they're going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. When, who shows up, you remember that dude who was walking around going, Hey, what do you want? Hey, what do you want? Remember him? Yeah, he was going around to all the ambassador. Well, his name is Morden.

We find out and he's back to say to lawn in this case, Hey, I know what you want. How about I give it to you? No price. It's all for free. Just remember this when we may or may not come asking you for a favor one day, lawn's like, sure. And the next thing we know, Morton's cloaked ships are taking out all of the Narn.

In quadrant 37, like they're on the Narada Jaar is devastated by the loss of over 10,000 NAS from the sector. And he heads out to find out what's going on. Leaves a message for Sinclair. There is no going back now. Lawn is shocked by Morden, but he's gonna be a hero. And Morden says to some of his shadowy friends.

Lawn fits our needs perfectly. All right, let's talk about the, now she's building some sort of tinker toy thing in her quarters, whatever she's doing, it's making Lanier extremely anxious. Apparently it's all about a prophecy and if she's wrong, it's gonna mean her death. She goes to see caution. And when she's there, he opens up his suit to let her look in because she wants to see it with her own eyes, whatever it is, she agrees to keep a promise that we don't really know what the promise is and says that he'll never see her again as she is now.

Hmm. Back in her quarter, she finishes her little project and uses that little Triforce thingy to turn it on. Cause it's gonna do something weird. Cause her to go into a cocoon or a wait for it. S you know, that word we heard a few episodes ago, or the title of this particular episode. Well, I'm sure we're gonna catch up in season two.

Exactly. What's going on here, because that's where her story ends in this episode, she's inside the thing and maybe we'll see where her wings look like. All right. Let's talk about the command staff. Now we'll get to it. GU Baldi gets a warning from an informant that they're going to kill. But then the informant dies before he can find out who they are and who him is.

This sets Gary Ball off on a quest to find out who's gonna kill whom. And while he's doing that, Sinclair is in his quarters with Christine. Remember her? The girlfriend? Yeah. Where's she been for the last, like half of a season? Anyway, they're talking and there's stuff on TV about the president going to Jupiter, for some reason that has to do with aliens, because that's what the president does.

And that's when Sinclair turns around and proposes to Christine and it even worse proposal than I gave to my wife. Just learn on that out there, but now they're getting married because she was like, of course you're stupid idiot. Well, while that's happening, the president is still doing more things to, to piss off home guard and GU Baldi finds.

Information about a smuggler named DEO and he discovers a crate of de row's cargo. That's gone missing inside that crate communication, jamming devices that are set for the area around, wait for it, Jupiter, right where the president's going to be. Aldi is off, but he leaves one of his lackies to guard the crate saying, don't let anybody touch it.

Unfortunately, that lacky is actually working for de. He winds up shooting Aldi straight up in the back at point blank range in the med lab, Aldi is able to do what the informant couldn't do. He tells Sinclair that someone is going to kill the president. Well, it's all for not because the president's ship blows up, like really good on TV ushering in the vice president as the new president.

Who immediately signs on to earth first ideology. This just leaves Sinclair in his quarters using on the idea that nothing is gonna be the same anymore. All right. So let's recap Jeff, at the end of season one, here's where everybody is. Earth has a new president. Garal he's on a table in the med lab. Jaar is flying out to quadrant 37.

Lawn's a hero, but he's kind of feeling guilty about it. The lens wrapped up in a cocoon and Lanier is really, really nervous about. And Sinclair is in bed with his girl. I'd like to be Sinclair in this situation, to be honest with you, Jeff, what did you think of this episode? Chrysalis? Great job

Jeff: on the recap.

That was, uh, that was, there was a lot that happened in this one and I'm super good. Like, I am really good with how, like everything ended in this one. It was a good season. One finale. Totally. Right. Like it brought the threads together. Set 'em up for the next, like, it was just this really great tee off for everything, but I'm excited because back in war, prayer, I expected.

So they were rushing in right to, to, you know, stop when Sinclair was trying to be, you know, infiltrate, home guard. I fully expected babble on security to turn on Garabaldi in that point, you know, be like, oh, we are home guard that happened here. like, I saw like the seed back in war pair. It happened in. I love what's happening with lawn.

We've watched lawn in a couple of episodes, born to the purple is one that I really think about where he's, he's at a crossroads, there's the theme right in his life where he's like, you know, all this BS I kind of grew up with. I don't know if I buy into it anymore. And he is at that like moment where he is kind of considering, but then.

Morden comes in. He is like, no, dude, trust me. Like your status matters. Like here it is. It's all. So I think, I think that the, the, the Morden stuff really came at a really fascinating time, uh, for, for lawn. It seemed to me like Jaar, starting to question some of the Narn tactics in, in, just in, in general.

Like he seemed very pensive and very thoughtful and not quite as aggressive as he was. Like, I, I feel like there was a real shift. In Ja in, in,

Brent: in what part? Exactly. Are you thinking?

Jeff: So there was this stuff with him in lawn, you know? Well, no we're gonna do, like, he was literally wearing a Cape in the council chambers, which I thought was pretty, was pretty nice touch.

Right, right. And just being the Jagar that we've come to know and love. Right. Well, when you're ready to talk seriously about this I'll come in. But then when Sinclair came, you know, NATA greeted him and then the three women shuffled out of his thing, like he just seemed a lot more thoughtful. And when Sinclair was like, you used to be peace.

Before this Tari came just, yeah, the look on his face. And then the way he kind of approached at the very end with when he had the realization that there was another player, right? The, the minbar wouldn't have attacked us. The Warland don't care about us. Uh, earth wouldn't do a thing like this, the Tari aren't capable.

There's someone else. Like, I, I think it just kind of changed the way he saw things. And I don't know. I, I just, I felt a shift in Jaar and right. But the moment, like the moment you saw was when he and NATA and Ivanova were on the, the train right after the president was died. And he was just like, I'm really sorry about that.

Like, I, I don't know. I just felt it was a different Ja.

Brent: Interesting that line where he goes, there's a different player. Mm-hmm , there's someone else out there. Um, I think up till now, cause I, I remember this guy Morden. I didn't remember him that well. Okay. I just remember going around asking what's up, what's up, what's up being kind of creepy and then he does something for Orlando at the very end of the story and he goes way and I think we.

Kind of, um, speculated that there might be something more there. And then we've also speculated about these shadowy guys. Mm-hmm, the guys that kind of blip in and out and different things like that. And we don't really see who they are. And I think we've associated them with home guard. And I don't know that they're actually associated.

I think these are two completely separate things. Like, I don't know that these shadowy figures are even like Morden is human. Yeah. Well, Peter, I don't know that the rest of them are human. Yeah. You all very good point. Good point. He appears to be, but we don't know that he is. So here's

Jeff: my thought. Right?

So in, uh, Babylon squared, I was like, oh my gosh, earth force with their little cloaking devices. They're the ones attacking Babylon five, I think. Right. So it was in signs, importance when. The shadows. I think they called them, the shadows took out the Raider ship and the Sentara guy and lady LA was like, yeah, the shadows were gonna get 'em.

And that was, I think we speculated there was a connection between Morden and these guys, I think, I don't know if this confirms it, but in my mind, like Morden says, we're gonna take care of it. And then those big shadowy things show up and blow up the Narn mm-hmm but then we get those cloaked things. I wonder if it's these, I think earth force can.

Home guard with earth force technology can cloak these things are somehow do. Maybe these are the things they're fighting in that Babylon squared future thing that we saw. Do you believe, and maybe this is diving into a whole conversation point, but do you believe that the vice president. Is involved with what happened 100%.

And when did you think that? When

Brent: he gave his speech? Okay. Okay. You know, I, I mean, it occurred to me when the whole thing blew up and the like he's getting sworn in and you're like the thought fluided through my head, but I didn't stick with it. But when he said, uh, we're gonna honor his legacy in this thing.

Um, We're gonna go with earth first. That's when I was like, oh yeah, he probably was very much a part of this. Now I, 100% believe that this vice president, this is probably always who he was. He's always been an earth first. Now I know the president people have rightly pointed out in comments that the president did not run necessarily on a platform of earth.

First, he ran on a platform of preserving earth cultures. That's very, very similar, I think to earth first. But if we wanna get technical, those are a different thing. Mm-hmm I, 100% believe that he would've. If assuming those presidential elections work the way that ours here in America work in 2020. In 2012 or 2008?

Maybe not now. I don't know.

Jeff: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Let's not, let's not. Yeah,

Brent: I don't know. But historically the way that they work here in America, 1994, when this show was made, yeah, there you go. Um, presidential candidates choose a vice president. Not because of what they can do for the administration, but because of the voters that they can bring in.

Yep. That's the only reason they're really chosen. And I, 100% believe that that president Santiago mm-hmm, , mm-hmm, , would've chosen this guy to be his VP to get that group of people, to come vote for him. And it's actually kind of dangerous that, that San yoga's gone. and I could, 100% believe that when the vice president saw that Santiago was doing all this stuff for, he was kind of playing kissy face with the various alien cultures that, that made him mad and that he somehow very well could be involved in that.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like even if he ordered it or if he's, even if he didn't order it, but he's. He's sympathetic to, to their cause and like, it's kind of what he wanted to happen. So,

Jeff: so it's been a while since we've busted out the cork board with pictures and red yarn stretched all across it.

Mm-hmm but, uh, yeah. Allow me to dust this bad boy off. Here we go. So they made a, a short news announcement, and first I love how this show uses media and background noise and things just to drop these little pieces through. Oh, the vice president's gotten off of earth force one at IO because he has a viral infection.

And so he's gonna rest here. Um, while the president finishes his trip to Jupiter, right? Oh no, the vice president's in on this whole thing. They got him off now. Okay. Red yarn gonna go across mm-hmm in and the sky full of stars. So there's a scene where I think it was Gar Baldy was reading universe today.

He was reading the newspaper. Okay. And I made comment on a couple headlines in there and one of them was that Cyco was in hot water. For publicly endorsing vice presidential candidate, Morgan Clark. Oh. So this then ties back to what we've talked about a couple times where I've really hung my hat. That Cyco is behind all of this.

They're manipulating things politically they're using their Cyco telepathic powers to, you know, kind of amplify public sentiment in those things. Uhhuh. I think that they've taken a guy like Morgan Clark. Like he, he, you know, he's probably earth first, like you said, he was sympathetic, whatever. He's kind of Frish, you know, enough where he can he's electable, but also, you know, far enough over where, um, where he could be swayed, but they, they, through their influence have pushed him over the top.

And now he's like, I'm the man, and stuff's gonna start going my way. I think this is all going back to Cy

Brent: core I'm I'm for Cy. I still need this stuff to come together. you know what I mean? Like there's so many different things happening, like, uh, you know, we have four more seasons trying track of, of it all.

There is definitely still four more seasons, but yeah, man, I'm with it. I'm with I'm, I'm feeling everything you're laying down, I'm picking

Jeff: it all up. And I think this guy Clark's gonna be a thing, you know, with Santiago, we saw his picture twice. Um, you know, he came to the station, we didn't get to see him.

Clark. He got TV time. We saw his face. He had lines. We're gonna see president Clark going forward.

Brent: Right. That, that was one thing I noticed. I was like, wait, we never saw president Santiago. Yeah. Like ever, didn't see a picture of him. Didn't see him on TV ever. We immediately saw this dude. They actually cast an actor.

Yep. And gave him lines and paid him money for that. Like, this will be a guy we'll see him physically on the station at some point. Yep. Totally, totally. Overall for me, Jeff, this was one of those episodes where I didn't have a lot of notes. Like hardly any at all, it was just, yes, all this stuff happened.

The notes I did make was the president got blow up real good. We just talked about that. Uh, Gar Baldi took one to the back. Yeah. Okay. Which,

Jeff: which, yeah, one of the things I love about the episode is how it brings so many threads from the other episodes together. And I caught, I feel like I caught quite a few.

I know there's so many more out there, but I, I loved that episode TKO and I've watched it a couple times since we watched it before. One of the last things Walker Smith says to garal. Watch your back. I don't know if it's just coincidence. I don't know, but I sure when I watched this, cuz I literally watched TKO maybe four days ago, so right.

It was in my head and I was just like, oh, oh, that that's cool. It's horrible.

Brent: But cool. I, uh, don't think that's related at all, but cool. I I'm glad that you did. I haven't put the court board. It doesn't mean yeah. The, the, what you want dude is back mm-hmm like that's a, that's a note, you know, uh, Morden, we now get a name.

And I mean, man, they, they owned the NORNS. I mean, these guys came in with Lon type power and then just scuttled away. Uh, so I think this is a thing, a big, bad that we're gonna find is Cyco attached to these guys. I don't know. Maybe we'll find out, uh, delin does the Chrysalis change, but again, that's an unresolved storyline right now.

Like, okay, there you go. But I think what we got, and this was the note I had. She did it because it's part of the prophecy. Yeah. But the great council didn't want her to do anything about it. And they're pissed at her in, in this line that the dude from the great council said is now she's committed us to this path.

If she didn't do this, did this leave options open? And is this forcing their hand to do something or like, I still wanna know more about this prophecy again. Yep. That happened. What does it

Jeff: mean? My question though? Is it the same prophecy? Cause I feel like in Babbel or in, in Babylon squared, I feel like the prophecy was really focused on humanity and Sinclair.

I mean, I could've been just, you know, assuming that with the, the context and then here she starts talking about prophecy. Most most, especially deeply religious, you know, cultures have more than one prophecy. Right. So she's

Brent: gonna go on those Chrysalis. Mm-hmm okay. What is, what is this gonna do to her? She, she goes to, to, to Kosh this, this is honestly probably the most interesting thing she says.

I need to see it with my own eyes, or I need to see it for myself or something. Mm-hmm and he. Reveals himself to her. That's what it seemed like. He showed her, her, he went lawn on her and showed her like, I don't, I don't know. He just

Jeff: took his helmet off. It's always started well, knows what else happened.

And she's like,

Brent: cool. I'm gonna keep my promise. Now my promise not to tell anybody. Yeah, my promise. What, like, what is that? And then she's, you know, and she obviously says, you'll never see me again in this form. I think clearly that means the Lynn is not going anywhere. They're just gonna cha like, are they just changing something to make makeup easier for her as an actress I could imagine.

Or like what, like, what is it, uh, do I care? Is this, is this gonna, is it just, is this why she's gonna look different than every other men bar out there now? I guess I'm not saying she is. I'm just speculating. Mm-hmm I don't. So we leave that. And then Sinclair and Christina are supposed to get married. I'm gonna make a bet.

They never actually

Jeff: get married. I think something Horrible's gonna happen to one of them, because if they get engaged and get married in the same episode, then it's generally pretty. Okay. If they don't, TV's taught us over the years that somebody's got something bad coming their way. Right. Right. And between the two, between the two, can I just say this?

Uh, I I'd prefer Katherine S. To survive. I really like her. I

Brent: do too. Jeff. I just found another way that Babylon five is like deep space nine. Oh, okay. The commander gets a girlfriend. Who's. Space runner. Although deep space nines didn't happen until like season four or five or something like that. And that relationship took a really long time to develop.

And here's the other thing that I got, and this really isn't that big of a deal, but it bugged, it bugs me to no end quadrant 37. Yeah.

Jeff: Quadrant. I don't know if anyone knows this, but quadrant. What does quadrant mean?

Brent: Means four. Yeah. Means four sections. Uh, an, an entire thing is divided into four parts. Now you could name them, whatever quadrant you want.

I mean, I guess if you have quadrant 35, 36, 37 38, and that's how you delineate. 'em fine. But that's weird. Like it's, you're talking quadrant 1, 2, 3, and four, or quadrant alpha beta gamma Delta. That's

Jeff: not a star Trek. It's not, that's literally the

Brent: alphabet. That's literally it, right? Uh that's that's the quadrants, that's it?

That's all you got.

Jeff: And after being so like precise back in Babylon squared with T eons and all that stuff, like. Got you, you got your sci-fi chops. You got your cred. You sh you shouldn't let this one slip.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah. So whoever their science advisor was on this one just didn't do his job or hers. That's all I had on this episode, Jeff, like, I hate to short, sail this episode, but it was really just a lot of yeah, that

Jeff: happened.

I think there's a couple things like, I, I wanna dive into just a little bit on, because that's pretty much what I got as well. Yeah. But like starting with Thelen and Kosh like that to me. It was big. It was really big, but mm-hmm it didn't mean. So, I mean, here are the things, right. Um, is the change that she's gonna become a VLAN?

Oh, like are VLAN the next step, the next evolutionary step. Boom, boom. Yeah, that was my thought. I'm like, oh, she needs to see like proof evidence, sum something. And then, and then she does. She's like I'm in, I'm gonna make this thing happen. Yeah. Could you imagine what that would do to the universe? Right.

And just the balance of power to find out that the VLAN are evolved men bar. I mean that literally that is, um, that's the, the, the IANS in star Trek discovery. Through whatever choice they had a cooling that didn't allow them to evolve to the next level. If they went, they had an encounter where Saru realized I can pull these ganglia, they come off and my change, I forget what the change was called.

But when I go through it, I actually turn into like a pretty, pretty badass dude out of that whole thing. Mm-hmm was, have they been somehow artificially holding their evolution back so they don't become VLAN? No, it could be. I appreciated that she went to Sinclair and offer. To share what happened at the battle of the line.

I, I thought that was a really cool thing of hers. And I think the flip side to that cool thing is that he had stuff to him that was more important than that. Like, I think Sinclair 20 episodes ago might have walked away from some of this stuff going on because he was, seems so much more. But now, like he's grown as a person, as a leader, as a commander, and he's got bigger fish to fry than figuring out what happened 11 years.


Brent: really, really was disappointed in this moment. Yeah. Because I, well, I thought they were gonna really tell us what happened at the battle line and they didn't, it was just a, do you remember? Yeah. Well, parts of it. Okay. Well, let's move on. Like why bring it up? Honestly, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't pay off for me yet when they brought it up yet.

Jeff: Yeah. That's my thought. That's my thought.

Brent: It, it just, it's more like I'm honestly, this is, this is a problem I'm having. Babylon five right now. I know the world building. They're asking so many questions, but they keep asking the same question. And just leaving it there, you know, like it's not even, like, they're gonna answer a question and then that answer is going to ask another question.

They're sticking on

Jeff: the same question. You know, that's a good point, cuz they, they asked the question and then in and the sky full of stars, they did exactly that. They answered some and asked some more and they've been writing that train. That's it. Yeah, there hasn't been

Brent: more movement. Like the answer to a question should spur another question.

That's awesome. Yeah. When you're just circling around the same question again and again, and again, like, frankly, it gets boring. Like I need you to answer for this so we can move on. Like it's like we can't move on until we found out the source of the burn. And it takes over the whole damn show and it's like, that's not what this is supposed to be about.

And I don't care. Like you you've, you've beat it to death so much that I actually don't even care anymore.

Jeff: I actually want this to blow up in your face now, like right, right. Two, uh, two thoughts with, uh, in regards to Jaar. On this one. So we talked about him realizing there was another, I wonder if he, cuz he, I mean, oh my gosh, there's another, and then four seconds later he is packed.

His bag, got on a ship, sent a note to Natas being like, Hey I'm Audi. I wonder if she's gonna be like the interim ambassador. That would be fun to have a couple episodes of her, like in a council meeting, being NAAU, like mm-hmm, I'm down for that. Is she gonna beat somebody down with a wrench? Exactly. But.

In the war prayer, right? When, uh, he and Catherine Sakai had their little interaction. Cause Catherine ran into that. Mm-hmm , you know, those bigger things. And he was like, you know, there are, there are species out there that see us as ants. And so I wonder if that was his like, oh my gosh, we are not ants anymore to them.

I gotta go let home world know, cuz this is not gonna end well for us. And in his message to Netta. Did you notice anything about how he signed. To her? No, what'd he say, expect me when you see me. That's how he, okay. Gandolph yep, exactly. That's total fellowship of the ring. I picked up with that. I'm like,

Brent: oh right.

I I'll tell you something that actually occurs to me. All right. Kosh. I wanna talk about Kosh for a second. Mm-hmm uh, right after the president ship blows up, he walks in because he is very, like, he walks in, he says a lot and he leaves like he's done this all season long. He does it in this one. He walks in and he.

It has begun, or this is the beginning or whatever you said, like it has begun is pretty much what he said. What are we talking about? The lens and the prophecy mm-hmm , she's forced the prophecy to start this whole thing. Like, what has begun is, is Kasha a being out of time. What's his deal. I don't like I need that, that answer.

Jeff: I think it was I season five yeah, I think it was a death Walker episode. I could be wrong, but, um, yeah, I, it was death Walker. When Sinclair went to cosh and told him, Hey, we're gonna vote on what to do with this war criminal. You should be here. But he was busy watching the guardian of forever that had all the hi the footage in the history of, of humanity.

And Sinclair's like, what are you watching here? He's like, I'm studying. And. I don't know if that was like a time viewer, like the guardian of forever was, or if it was just a thing, a screen, he was watching stuff on, but. He sees, you know, history, history repeats itself. And he's seen this moment in history where he is like, so this hap has happened on earth, you know, before we had, you had a dictator that rose to power in, uh, in 2024, I mean, in, in 1939, excuse me.

And, uh, you know, led a massive racial war throughout Europe. It brought the whole world to war now. Mm-hmm, , you're on a universal you're on a galactic stage. It has begun, but I think now that we've talked through this, those are the notes , that's it that's and that's, that's me digging a little bit.

Brent: That's what I was saying.

This is an episode that it happened. Mm-hmm and I'm really E like I'm really kind of mad that we're doing a season one recap next week. Because I'm eager to get into the next, like, like, okay, is Lynn gonna emerge in the next episode from this Chrysalis? I, I wanna see what changes happened. What's Sinclair gonna do now that everything's different.

Yeah. Are he and Christine actually gonna get married? Well, he said April and she's like, how about June? right. So although I will know this episode ended at new year's Eve mm-hmm . Okay. So here's a theory for you. Here's a season two theory. This episode ends at, at, at, at new year's Eve, uh, going into new year's day.

And we're told within like this episode or the last episode that season one, the events of season one have occurred over about the course of six months. So if they're gonna get married in June, does that mean that that's when season two is gonna start, is in June and season two is actually gonna be the wedding.

That first, that first episode of season two, do the wedding off of that. Yeah. Like our like is real time gonna pass while we're in the season break.

Jeff: I like that. I like it because it's a great way to kick off a season, right. With a, with a, with a wedding in there. But then it also gives time where it's not like, Hey, Dalen was in her cocoon yesterday and today she's emerging.

Like, no, this was, she was in there for six months. Like this is a rebirth for her. I like that idea a


Brent: All right, Jeff, let's do the thing. Let's boil it down. Does this episode, give us any hope for the future. Does it give us any messages? Does it give us any, uh, that star Treky idea?

Jeff: This was a wild ride.

This episode? I think it was a great season ender. Like we've talked about it set up a season really? Well. Like, like you said, I am, I had to, I had to re restrain myself from hitting play next episode, cuz I want to see what happens in season two. It had action, right? Intrigued politics. It brought so many things together, but a star Trek message in this.

Not so much. Um, there's, Thelen, you know, it's always Thelen with me and the star Trek messages, but Thelen like potentially sacrificing herself again for a thing that she believes in. Yeah. Maybe Jaar and lado being cool after the death of Santiago. Yeah. That's no. Okay. Maybe, but this was. This was not a star Trek like episode.

This was 100% a babble on five episode and I loved it. I'm gonna give it zero deltas, but I am gonna give it five minbar air bender, head Pany things for being an awesome episode of babble on five .

Brent: That's the thing we're gonna use to represent Babbel on five. I don't know, air bender, head thingies. I like it.

We need a name for it. Wait. What's what's what's the Ang isn't that Ang. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. With the we're gonna call those ANGs you're gonna give them four ANGs. I like it. I think, I think that's important going forward. Jeff, we can give it deltas, but then we can also give it, Hey listeners out there. We need you.

Yep. Okay. What is the thing we're going to use to represen? Babylon five, please. Don't say lawn tentacles. Wait, please. Don't

Jeff: say that. I need LIO to wipe that from my mind. It's just gross. Gross.

Brent: um, you know, but like, like what is it that sort of is representative of Babylon five? Yeah. What, what makes that, because I think we should start doing this.

Jeff. I think we should add this to the show at this point, because as I said, a couple weeks. By the way I, 100% agree with you. This isn't star Trek at all at all. Great episode of television, the last three, four episodes of this, uh, Jeff have been great episodes of television and not very star. That's okay.

Yeah. Like I said, several episodes ago, I don't remember what was legacies or Babylons. I dunno, one of those, this is where Babylon five is making its own path. Yeah. And it's doing something different. It's it's message of the future is different than what star Trek is and that's great. I love. Having that there.

And so I'll give this no deltas, but I'll give it all the for now I'm gonna call it the ANGs. I'll give it all of them because it was a great episode of Babylon five. That's exactly

Jeff: what it was. It was well, that's it for Chrysalis? That's it. For season one, normally this is where we play our game and we guess what the next episode's gonna be about.

But our next episode here on the podcast is gonna be a recap of the entire first season. So we'll see you here for that. Thank you so much for joining us through this. Hey, don't forget to send us your reviews. Right. Head over apple podcast. Good pods, wherever. Leave a review, screenshot it. Tag us on Twitter with it at Babylon first, or email it to us.

Babylon five first gmail.com. That's the number. And the word first and Brent until next time, Jeff,

Brent: how many gods do I have to have upset? For you to force me to sit through this every

Jeff: single wow man. I mean, one that kind of hurts, but two, I don't know, like 42 of them, 47. Maybe I like

Brent: 47. It's at least 47.

Jeff: All right, fine. Fine. We'll skip it this week then.

Brent: Thanks Shaquan.

Jeff: Just kidding live long in Zaba Dhabi.

Brent: Ah, this is my first time.

Jeff: Leadership the final frontier. These are the voyages of the star fleet leadership academy. It's ongoing mission to develop leaders through star Trek, to boldly go where no podcast has gone before a leadership development podcast told the lens of star Trek, the star fleet leadership academy available everywhere you listen to podcast.