Falling Toward Apotheosis

Jeff: Welcome to Babylon five for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin and I am the one who was,

Brent: And I'm Brent Allen and I am the one who will be.

Jeff: and we are watching Babylon 5 for the first time for you, the one who is.

Brent: Jeff and I are two veterans, star Trek podcasters, searching for what we call Star Trek like messages. That are being done in a uniquely Babylon five way.

Jeff: And while this is not a podcast about Star Trek, those references are very likely to make their way into our conversation. So to keep us honest, we play the rule of three. That means that each one of us gets up to, and no more than three references to Star Trek per episode. That's it. Three. One of those three.

No substitutions. Exchanges a refund. Hey, Brent.

Brent: Hey Jeff.

Jeff: We have a five star review. Oh yes. This one's from Apple Podcasts and it's from Roasted Salamander.

It's a fun name.

Brent: up Sal?

Jeff: Roasted Salamander says, I came to this cast late and ended up binging all of the old episodes in less than a week. Yeah.

Brent: That's a lot of freaking episodes in a week. Holy

Jeff: I hope. I hope they're doing okay. Like

we should do a welfare

Brent: Jeff. Is, is this one of our like banked uh, reviews from like

Jeff: We are, we are a couple of, I think we're a few months out to be fair, but we're still like, that's

Brent: That's a

Jeff: lot of Babylon

Brent: Yeah. What's up roasted Sal? Thanks for hanging out with us. It's cool.

Jeff: It is a good thing too, to call. I thought we want to be transparent. We don't want to spend 40 minutes reading reviews. And so we do two in each one of these and you all are so amazing and you leave us these reviews and we love them and appreciate them, and we wanna honor you. And so time to balance those things.

We're a little behind, but you know what? We got a lot of road in front of us. All right, so Roasted Salamander says, I came to this cast light and ended up binging all the old episodes in less than a week. There was frustration at first because they were coming from a Star Trek perspective. I do, I do love Trekk and Babylon five does not fit in that mold, but I figured that would be the case going in.

So, so I just gritted my teeth and endured, they made me angry and they made me laugh, and then they showed me something new about the show I had never noticed. And I've watched it repeatedly since it first aired, and in that same episode, they also showed so much humanity that I teared up. It was a spectacular cast and earned five stars from me just for that episode alone.

I'm here until the end, guys. Thank you so much, much love.

Brent: Wow. Uh, Love that. Love every single bit of that. And welcome to the Journey Roasted Salamander.

Jeff: I'm very curious what that episode was.

Brent: yeah,

Jeff: It's very touching, humbling, really. Well, hey Brent,

Brent: Hey, Jeff

Jeff: we have a four star review that doesn't get an Oh yeah. What?

Brent: That was Brent. Who pushed that button, by the way? Not Jeff. Uh, no. At Four Star Review. Okay. Jeff, we read them all. Let's go. Four star review.

Jeff: Well, this one's from Spotify now.

Brent: Only the fives get the, oh, yeahs

Jeff: right, exactly. Yeah.

Brent: okay.

Jeff: yeah, this one's from Spotify. Spotify doesn't let you leave a comment, but uh, this person, Jesse, was kind enough to email us their comments. I was super excited to have found your podcast on B five, and I became giddy. With every new episode you put out your correct guesses, get me excited, and the incorrect guesses make me laugh.

I'm a longtime watcher at Babylon five and started watching the series when I was about eight, which was early season three. Since I was behind by two seasons, I had to use my parents' library cards to borrow VHS tapes of the show to play catch up. It's been a favorite of mine ever since, and I'm a devoted.

The show's made a lasting impact on my life. It's inspired me to be the person I am today. The most notable influence in my life was len's character. There are many things I can't say so as to not spoil the show for you, but Dalen made a huge impact on my personal growth from youth to teen to adult.

When Mira passed away in 2021, I felt devastated. I've always been saddened when a cast member passed, but hers was the most difficult, and even though I never met her, her portrayal of my favorite character not only helped me get through a lot, but taught me a lot. There was no better teacher than to lend the, you know, I'm not finishing that so as not to spoil.

I honestly could go on and on, but I should probably chill out. I look forward to every Monday listening to each new episode and even though I've seen the show more times than I can count y'all surprise me when you bring up something I didn't catch over the years. I can't forget and will never forget your talk on confessions and lamentations.

I never viewed the ritual dinner that Dalen held as a kind of Passover, but it makes so much sense. Keep up the great work.

Brent: Uh, thank you. Thank you for that review. Um, that's really cool. I I, I love that, that you're going back and doing that. Jeff, I, I, I have to ask though, oh, one, who was, oh, one of the memory, what was Confessions and Lamentations?

Jeff: Oh, I'll never forget that one either. You, we tried to forget it and block it out. That was the, the plague. The, the, the, uh, marab. The marab

Brent: Oh, oh yeah. Oh, it's like shin's list of of season two. Good episode.

Jeff: might, I might have just activated Brent, like,

Brent: it, but only once.

Jeff: One time. One time is

Brent: Good episode though. Good

Jeff: Fantastic. Fantastic. It's like,

Brent: that the one I said Franklin's? Right? It's the first time I gave Franklin props, right?

Jeff: Yeah. That's, uh, that, that episode is what every TV show should aspire to be and should never actually achieve.

Brent: And PS jms, please stop killing children. Let's go. Well, on the backside of that, uh, Jeff, you know, one of the things that makes me happy when people leave us, uh, reviews of any star status, uh, one of the things that makes me happy is getting to play games. I love games. We play our rule of three. Uh, we play a game at the end of the show where we try to guess what the next week's episode is gonna be about, based on title alone.

Never having seen it before. No descriptions, no thumbnails, nothing. Well, this is the part of the show where we look back at what we said last week, that this week was gonna be about and pay the piper. Jeff, what did you say this week's episode, falling towards apotheosis was gonna be about?

Jeff: Well, we were gonna get the shadows coming to Carta wanting more and more. I thought they were gonna want more land, something like that. That's not quite how that went. They just wanted them to sacrifice themselves. Uh, to protect them. But I also thought that Sheridan was gonna go for Kosh. I thought it was gonna be like, set up as Sheridan versus Kosh, but it sure ended that way.

So I'm, I'm gonna give myself a, a good solid half credit on, uh, on my guess on this one. Maybe a, maybe a smidge more. What about you?

Brent: Well, I, I said that. Never having heard this word apotheosis before in my life. I thought it sounded a lot like aposty, which is the idea of like somebody leaving their faith. And I think I landed on the Volans being up to something who basically, they've been a force for good in the universe and now they're gonna leave that faith and go be a force for bad, which by the way, is exactly what's going on.

I don't know how much of it was really a prediction because it's what was happening at the end of the episode. It was just more of that and amping everything up. And so I was right. But there was other stuff that ha that was kind of the backdrop of what was going on with everything else. So, you know, a 10th of a point, maybe I don.

Jeff: Yeah, that sounds good. But with that backdrop of everything else that was going on, Brent, for those people who haven't watched this episode in a long time or who are just dying to hear your description of it, why don't you walk us through falling toward apotheosis.

Brent: Well, the vlan are continuing their attack on other worlds, worlds that have been touched by the shadows. They're showing no mercy. It's only a matter of time before they turn their eyes on Babylon five. And as Mr. Garabaldi says, once they do, there isn't Bku anyone can do about it. Speaking of Gu Baldi, he's getting real tired of just sitting around not doing anything, and he's still pretty cranky, but K Nicki isn't having any of it.

And he tells the chief straight to his face, Hey, you're being a, and because they're such good friends. Zach can say things like, Hey, stop being a straight to his face, and Gu Baldi can turn around and confide in. Zach, what's really bothering him is that before everything happened, he and Sheridan were buds, but now Sheridan hasn't even talked to him. Well, there's no time for that.

Dr. Franklin wants one more examination before fully releasing Garabaldi back to work, and that's when the glove comes out. freaks, no, doc, please stop that. Anything but that. I really, really hate that. And just as every man who's over 40 or 45 or 50 these days starts to have their own personal flashbacks to their time with the doctor in the glove, Garabaldi has his own flashback to that time when he was cellophane wrapped to a table.

Weird, but he doesn't really mention anything to anybody about it, and Franklin clears him for duty. Well, let's go check in on Londo and Kar, shall we? Londo is meeting with Carta in the garden set, which has been redressed to look like a garden on Sumari Prime and who would show up Mr. Morden. Now Morden lets them know that the Volans are attacking everyone out there and he wants Londo and crew to put up a blockade around Sonari.

Prime Londo doesn't like this idea cuz he wants to get the heck out of there, but Carta agrees with Londo. Carta doesn't want to send any ships to scare off the vlan. He wants to let the Bolon bird Sonari prime to the ground where he will ride off into Godhood upon the flames of his own planet. An idea by the way that he got from his shadow cabinet, you know those severed heads that he likes to talk to.

Yeah. This dude's crazy. Rolando has some quick thinking and he gets Carta to agree to head over to the Narn home world with Kar for his trial and execution that way. There will be a number of people who can see and remember Carta before he heads off to his godhood. But just before they go, Carta says he doesn't like the way Ja car is looking at him, and he orders one of his eyes plucked out which one you ask.

It doesn't really matter any meany mighty Moe. That left eye has got to go well back on the station. The crew are trying to figure out the overcrowding problem that is now happening because you see a lot of refugees are arriving every day from these worlds that the Volans are oblating. Well, they're gonna stash some of those folks down on Epsilon three for the time being, but there's a bigger problem.

And that bigger problem's name Kosh two Electric Boogaloo. You see, they can't plan a move or do anything with him around, so he's got to go. And that's when Sheridan reveals Tague Baldi. That's why he's been kept out of the war council meetings so that Kosh two couldn't read Gu bald. He's mind when he gets sent to ask him to leave.

And by ask, we mean demand. And by demand we mean escort to his ship with guns drawn. But oddly, that doesn't really seem to make Arab Baldi feel any better. Well, things don't go so well for Garabaldi and the crew as they hightail it out of there with Kosh two going old Darth Citius and sending electricity on him.

And the next thing you know, Litta is jumping in the room saying, gosh, we gotta go. There's a plan to attack you. So let's get you outta here. And on the way to the ship, Kosh Two Senses, something is off with Litta and he's right, but it's too late. Kosh two has walked right into their trap, a big old Tesla coil, Faraday cage thing, and Kosh two is electrified holding his own for a bit.

Eventually his encounter suit gives way and and explodes. And the real Kosh too, like the actual Kosh two emerges. Not all angelic, like globby, but he locks Sheridan into sort of a tractor beam type thing. And that's when Lori yells now and sh out of Sheridan's. And out of Sheridan's body comes another yellow globby thing that nobody else recognizes.

For a moment, it kind of looks like Jarvis fighting Ultron, but this is what it is. Kosh one has come to fight Kosh two, the two are, ding it out in Aloy. Circular kind of a thing, tearing through the station out into space where they catch up to Kosh two's fleeing ship and properly, which promptly explodes.

So they're gone. But so Sheridan, he's c, he's out cold on the floor. Lori comes back to give Sheridan some of his own life energy. It isn't much, but it will give she in another 20 years or so before he will simply be no more. Dylan is understandably sad at this. She thought she'd have at least 60 years with him.

Not 20, but hey, at least they get this much. And without any further ado, Sheridan digs a box out of the couch cushions and presents to Lynn with an engagement ring in a proposal that is worse than even I had for my own wife. She never actually says yes though. But as soon as he put a ring on it, she's making out with him in a way that made my 10 year old go, Ew.

So I think that's a yes. Jeff, what'd you think of this episode? Falling towards apotheosis?

Jeff: Brent, this is, this was a good hour of tv. I wanna start off by saying that I wanna say that this, I enjoyed this episode. It was, it was great. It was good. It had some, uh, had some big peaks in it, and then a lot that I just kind of wasn't all that blown away by

Brent: Hmm.

Jeff: like, uh, the Kosh fight. That, that was great.

I really liked the Kosh fight. I especially liked the music in the Kosh fight. We don't talk about the soundtrack enough actually. I don't know that we really ever have, but like, especially on the second watch through of this, the, the, the, the soundtrack, the music really made that fight matter. Made it big ja car's eye, holy crud.

Like it's happening, you know? Wow. Wow. That thing that we knew that was gonna happen, uh, we, we saw it, we, we, we saw it start to happen. I've been dying to know more about what happened to Garib. Baldi. I still want to know, but he is slipping into annoying really fast. Like I, in this one, I was just like, oh my G God.

I get it. I get it. You feel slighted, you're mad, whatever. But I think we, like this one, just kind of moved things forward. You know, my little funny Carta is falling, Sheridan is being hurled, but they're both on their way to apotheosis on this big, Messiah complex for Sheridan in this one. Um, I, I loved Zach.

I loved Zach in this episode, he's stepping up, he's handling Garabaldi. He's being a really, really good friend. But, uh, I'm done. I am done with this sappy version of Dylan. I, I, I miss hardcore get stuff done. Sati, Tolen. And I, I am not a fan of this one, and I know that's not a popular statement. It's just a me thing.

Um, I'm, I'm ready for her to get back to being, being tough again, I guess. What about you? What were your first thoughts on this one?

Brent: I kind of feel about this one like I did last week. Um, I feel like not a lot happened in this episode, but at the same time, a lot happened in this episode. Once again, my notes are really sparse for this episode. The, the folks on Patreon who get our notes beforehand will note my, my notes are really short this week, much shorter compared to previous weeks, and I'm sure much shorter than your notes are,

Jeff: Well, mine are a lot of like, this happened, this happened, this happened. I have like two

things that are

Brent: but there's no thoughts on it. It's like, yep, that happened. Right? Jeff, do you remember back in season two when we kind of like took that heel turn and a bunch of episodes were bad? One of my constant complaints was that the ball wasn't moving down the field and you, you'd be, yeah, so this episode happened, but what did it matter? What's going on? And, and everyone's answers are like, oh, it's world building, or, oh, it's character development, or, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this actually feels like some of those episodes to. Except I can say for certainty the ball is moving down the field. We're closer to Car Tai's assassination. We are on the precipice of Jaar losing an eye, or he's already lost his eye. By the time we see him next, he's gonna have that bandage wrapped around his head. I'm sure

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: we're closer to Dalen and Sheridan and Little baby David. We're closer to Sheridan becoming a God and having to leave his brand new wife and probably his new baby.

See my prediction from last week when Sheridan told Deln that he would never leave her. Cuz I think that's absolutely where this is going. . Um,

Jeff: I mean, I'm not gonna count this one against you, but just so everyone knows,

Brent: yeah,

Jeff: that's, that's how a certain series kind of

Brent: I, I, I think, but I think that's where it's going. And when people, when people compare Deep Space nine to Babylon five, and they say, oh, look where it ended. If this ends with Sheridan ascending. Somewhere and having to leave Dylan and everybody behind, uh, because here we try to stay spoiler free, Jeff.

Right. Okay. The, the words that I have heard about the final episode is amazing, awesome. And heartbreaking. I don't know if that's a spoiler to you. I'm sure you've seen those same

Jeff: I've heard it and that and that basically it's a hundred percent guarantee you that you will watch it and cry.

Brent: Yeah. Like, that's, that's, I mean, yeah. That's, that's exact. I, I saw j m s actually tweeted something out a while ago, like a while ago, where it was like, yep. Thought I was ready to watch that show or that episode. Turns out I wasn't.

Jeff: Oh, wow.

Brent: Now that could have been more him reliving the show itself and, and not so much what happened, but maybe it really was what happened as well.

I, I don't

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Uh, but I'm just, I'm. My prediction at this point, putting two and two together as spoiler free as I possibly can be. I think that's where we're going. I don't, I don't think we're gonna see Baby David on this show or maybe, maybe he will have just been born, but Sheridan's gonna have to leave.

Um, we've taken out the VLAN on the station, which is necessary to be able to move on with whatever's gonna happen with the VLAN next. And Kosh one is now gone, gone, gone.

Jeff: For reels.

Brent: I'm kind of upset about it.

Jeff: Yeah,

Brent: Yes, because they made such a big deal that there's a little bit of Kosh remaining in Sheridan and it was the little bit of Kosh that like saved Sheridan when he jumped down that hole in Zaha Doom and now he's out of Sheridan to fight this Lon just to get him off the station.

Like that's how we're like, it feels like Ka should have been around more than just that to me.

Jeff: yeah.

Brent: um, I, I feel like it was just, it was pumped up way more than this exit didn't seem worthy of the, of the gravity of Kosh being there to

Jeff: Of Kosh, right.

Brent: yeah, yeah. Um, so like you said, and I wanna be very clear to everybody out there who's just firing off comments about this.

I liked this episode.

Jeff: That was

Brent: I will watch this episode every single time it is on tv or every single time I'm doing a rewatch of the series. This is not a skipper, but I promise you though, this episode is gonna get lost in the mass of episodes. That will be season four when we do our ranking

Jeff: Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, really, how could you not love an episode that has Carta dusting the nose of a beheaded minister while Londo sits holding his

Brent: knows because they have to.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Can you imagine what the smell of that is? You got what? Six severed heads sitting right there and he is there talking to them. Do you think, is he really crazy? Like does he really feel like he hears voices

Jeff: think he

Brent: from these guys? I think

Jeff: like that was this whole thing. He was like, I was talking to Minister Dari here and he had this great idea that we should do this. And it's like, oh yeah, yeah. Your Highness. That's great. Oh my God.

Brent: seen him have those conversations when nobody else was around, so, yeah. Um, so Cartio wants to light Sonari prime on fire as he ascends.

Jeff: Yeah. Why not? Why not? I mean, that, that, that's what you do. That's Godhood right there. That's how it works

Brent: Jeff, here's, here's a question. Um, this is mid nineties. What cult was really big at this point in the mid nineties that this is emulating?

Jeff: was this? Heaven's Gate?

Brent: this David Kresh?

Jeff: Oh yes, that'd be the, uh, branch Davidians, right?

Brent: Yeah. Or Heaven's Gate. Was that the, was that the one with the um,

Jeff: The Nikes. Is that

Brent: something like that? Well, there was, there was the, the asteroid that's flying by and we're all gonna kill ourselves and, and

Jeff: hail bop, the HaBO com. I think that was Heaven's Gate. I think Heaven's Gate was HaBO. Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. Uh, yeah. I don't, I don't know if any of 'em that said, Hey, let's set the world on fire while we become Gods, uh, but

Jeff: Maybe that we just haven't heard of them yet. I mean, maybe that's what's happening, uh, on the West Coast, you know, and with all the, with our, with our as, as our world burns, uh, you know, every, so every summer now, right on schedule, they're, they're just waiting for it to catch for

Brent: fire. Um, yeah. So we, Jeff, how, how much longer are we gonna have before Lando actually kills this dude? In a sense, the throne, I can't imagine we're too many, we're too far out, away from.

Jeff: I'm gonna put the over under at three more episodes, and I'm gonna take the over, but I think it's gonna be like four, like within three or four episodes.

Brent: Yeah.

Jeff: It's done. I don't know that he's gonna send the, the throne right away. Like, I don't know what the rite of succession

Brent: Right, right. But Carta is done like this is, this is not gonna go well for him real soon. Like he, he is barreling towards this.

Jeff: yeah. Well, I guess, you know what, we actually have a timeline seven days, and so there's a chance it could be the next episode. I don't think it's going to be the next episode. Um, I think it'll play out probably the one afterwards. So now I'm, I'm changing my

Brent: No, you're kidding. Cause I was getting ready to take the under. You're not allowed. I was gonna take the under. You already said over

Jeff: Damn it. Fine, fine.

Brent: All right. Two more episodes then, Jeff. Two more. I cuz I was, you said that and I was already on the under, like,

Jeff: then you We'll, we'll,

Brent: one to two episodes. I don't think we're that far away from it

Jeff: no, I don't think so. We'll play it. We'll play it out. It'll

be good. I did,

Brent: they have to get like, We're, we're barreling towards the end here. I don't know what season five holds, but season four is, you know, in the falling action of, of what all's going on.

Um, I feel like this whole war thing has to be wrapped up by the end of the season and then whatever season five is moving forward, I, I'm not sure, but, uh, uh, yeah, like, we're getting there. We're barreling fast,

Jeff: Fast. I loved, uh, I loved Car Tai's. Um, sense of irony, calling all those severed heads, his shadow cabinet and just being like, aren't I hilarious? Look at, look at what I call them. Look how funny I am.

Brent: right. Uh, Londo. Let's talk about lawn's. Silver tongue.

Jeff: Mm.

Brent: Feeding everything to Carta. What Me? Stay behind to remember you. No, I'm gonna burn an hell. I'll just send you on your way. I'm, it's not me, it's everybody else. But think about it. We have to remember, you can remember you Majesty and he's, he's, uh, and he's feeding it to him.

Jeff: He's so good talking. Dir dir. He wasn't even talking to Carta. He was talking directly to his ego. Right. Just bypassing everything else. Just like, oh. And it was, that whole scene was so good too. Cuz at first Carta is just like, you're, you're, oh, what? You'll leave. And so you can spread the, the, the word of, of me Londo.

Oh no, of course not. Of course not. I was never, I would never, oh, so good. So good. I just love the way he laid everything out. The plan is so brilliant because, One, he's gonna set it up so that when the wars show up, he's probably not on Tari Prime. So nice self-preservation there.

Brent: by the way, we saw Centara Prime burning in the future with War Without End.

Jeff: And that's 20 years in the future or something like that. Right? 17, I think it was years in the future. So whatever happens, like it's gonna, ooh, it's gonna be rough, but uh, it puts, it puts Cartia and Lando on Narn. What we know why that's significant is we know Lando has allies on Narn. See, and when the Rock and the Rock cried out, he was able to

maneuver. Exactly. Exactly. He's, he's, he's changing the, the rules, right? It's like he's literally, this is his Cohi Maru, and he's curing it by going in and changing the parameters of the. He's like, if I try and kill car Taji here, me and Jaar will be dead in 2.2 seconds. Gone. We go to my home court, we go to Kars home court.

Not only are we gonna get away, Scott free, we're gonna get held up and celebrated.

Brent: say lawn's, home courts battle on five, but you know, yeah. You're going to,

Jeff: Well, maybe, I don't know. I, that dude's burned a lot of bridges.

Brent: Yeah, but he still has his good dear friend, Mr. Garda Bolty.

Jeff: Uh, maybe he had more of a friend in Sheridan in this one.

Brent: Yeah, he, he did

Jeff: I love that when he, he called Sheridan. He was probably calling collect

Brent: You know what's funny is, okay, I know all of our listeners out there totally understand what the idea of collect is. Our kids would have no, like what's collect dad. I dunno what that means.

Jeff: We used to have to pay for phone calls.

Brent: Right? What?

Jeff: it's like, I.

Brent: Here's a clue, son. We still pay for phone calls. We just put the phone in your pocket so you can call anytime you want.

Jeff: Do you remember the commercial where they're like, uh uh, we have a collect call from, we ought a baby. It's a boy. Do you accept the charges, I did that when I was in high school. I'd call my dad collect and I'd be like, the game's done. I need a ride for my name. Hey, do you come the call from the game's done? I need a ride.

Brent: Yep.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: So speaking of Garra Baldy, well, I guess before that, uh, Ja car's getting his eye plucked out. This is how it

Jeff: you, so did you though catch the significance of that moment?

Brent: This is how it happened.

Jeff: No, this was big. This was big. Okay.

Brent: lay it on me.

Jeff: I gotta make sure. So first off, before, well I'm looking, I just want to plop an image in your mind just to fester there for a minute. Imagine the guard who has to pluck the eyeball out.

Brent: Oh, okay. Let's, I know where you're going with this. Go ahead, Jeff. Do.

Jeff: Yeah. Well I was just gonna start there. Just imagine that, but then let's think about this lady who plopped by plopped. I say plopped and plucked. Let's think about this lady who stopped by Babylon five some time ago, told Londo three really important things. One of one, one of them was that he must not kill the one who is already dead.

Right? Who we're guessing is Sheridan in the future. Seven at the, uh, war without end timeframe. The second

Brent: dead now.

Jeff: the Uhhuh. Yeah. Cause Sharon's Sheridan is already dead. Uh, the last one she said was, he'll have to surrender himself to his greatest fear. But the first thing she said was, you must save the eye.

That does not see. He had a chance to come up with a punishment for Kar. He said, I trust you, emperor. I trust you. You, you do your thing. He's yanking the eye. Lando has strike one.

Brent: Oh.

Jeff: and he doesn't even know it.

Brent: Hmm.

Jeff: Where did you think I was going with the guard and plucking the eye out? I just thought it was gross.

Brent: Oh, I thought, I thought you were going to the next station of the cross.

Jeff: Oh no. Cuz you know what this is, we're, we're still, we are still in, in station one. Like I feel like, I mean, I've got my segment ready to go, but there's no additional

Brent: there for it. Okay.

Jeff: here, which is too bad.

I just, I just imagine that guy going home. His wife's like, oh, Zari, bill, how you doing? How was your day? And he's like, I really, I really don't want to talk about

Brent: Yeah, I

Jeff: Um, how hot can you get the water in the shower? Oh my

Brent: like I had to pull a dude's eye out and I don't, I mean, think, think about it, Jeff. If you had to pull somebody's eye out right now, what would you do? I don't even know how I would do it.

Jeff: I don't even know how I.

Brent: do I stick my finger in and like just grab and pull? Like I don't, I don't know how I would do it.

I really,

Jeff: You know, when I was a kid they said all you had to do was like pull down and blink and like too much and it would pop. Maybe it's super easy.

Maybe I, you know what? I hope I pray desperately. . Neither you nor I ever know the answer to that question.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Uh, GU Baldy. I wanna talk about Gu Baldy. Um, yeah. You said you were really over delin. I'm really over Gu Baldy right now. I am this moody snippety. Gu Baldy. Now that being said, what I don't know about Gu Baldy right now, what is talking is, is this actually Gu Baldy who is upset and miffed at all the injustices that he feels like he is experiencing and he just doesn't care anymore and he's missing his friend and he's being, uh, out.

Or is this whatever cycorp plopped into his head? And I'm gonna stick by it with Cyco, Jeff. Not, uh, not anyone else. Uh, I, and I, I'm not sure, and it might be a little bit of both, but, uh, regardless, I'm kind of tired of this Garra Baldy, but I think this is the gu Baldy that we need right now for whatever's gonna happen.

I don't like where this is going with him.

Jeff: I agree. I this episode more so, especially at the end when he was talking to Ivanova and uh, she was like, oh, I just can't wait for this to be over. And he is like, , what, what changes? You know, when, what's the big deal? We win and then we have nowhere to go home to. We lose and we die. And so, I mean, what's the big deal?

He had the line. Uh, I don't know what scares me more, uh, winning or losing.

Brent: yeah.

Jeff: I, I think that he's got control or whatever the, you know, and a, you know, spider's web thing going on. He's a, he's a cyber zombie and he's there to, so discontent. Mm-hmm.

Brent: Yep. I, I highly agree and I, I don't like where it's going with him. Um, by the way, don't be that guy.

Jeff: Seriously?

Brent: Just don't be that guy. Don't be the guy who goes in and, and just craps all over everything because I don't want you around. And honestly, if you are that, if you are in my circle and I'm a Sheridan or a Nirvana or something like that, and you become that, You're not gonna be around me much longer because I'm, I'm not bringing that kind of energy around.

Especially not when we need to be moving forward, cuz of what's the stakes are, you

Jeff: Because they're huge. It's everything. Zack. Zack gets it. Zack, again, I said it in my opening thoughts, but I'll say it again. He was so on point. You know, I, I thought it was great, a great moment of vulnerability for Garabaldi to be like, dude, me and the captain, we were getting tight. Like it was good.

What's going on Zack's? First thing, he's like, well if you're not overreacting

Brent: Mm-hmm.

Jeff: sure he is. Got a good explanation and hey, turns out he did. He had a really good explanation. Sheridan did, but Zach was calling him on his stuff. It was great, but he was doing it in a cool and care. And even after he stormed outta the War council, which I also get cuz Sheridan was basically like, yeah, I know you're gonna get beat to hell and I'm okay with that.

It's gotta happen. Oh fine, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Zach went after him and behind Z behind Garibaldis back stood up for him and I thought that was awesome. He is gonna get punched in the mouth though at some point if he keeps calling. Ivanova Ivanova. go well when you call her the wrong name,

Brent: Now it's Ivanova. Ivanova is the one that's not not good. Ivanova, we've heard people say Ivanova. Marcus says Ivanova.

Jeff: But he has such a great accent that makes it

Brent: It makes it okay. Right? Um, hey, question about, well, first. Okay. What I loved about Zach when he walks into that, uh, that, uh, quarters for Gar Baldi, and all he is trying to do is, Hey, Dr. One C.

And then he is gonna clear for work, and Garabaldi just starts going off on him. Zach just looks at him like, like, it's not even phasing him. He's like, I'm not, you're doing nothing to me right now. You just keep talking. I don't care. And uh, he's like, are you done yet? I'm gonna let you talk. Are you done?

He's like, if you stop, you know, being a jerk to everybody, maybe you could actually hear some stuff. Um, I loved that. It's, it's, was it last episode, Jeff? We were saying like, we're watching Zach, like take some steps forward. Didn't you predict that Zach's gonna be the new chief of security? Something like

Jeff: they break the control thing and they have to kill Garabaldi, Zach's gonna be the new guy.

Brent: Hmm.

Jeff: God, I hate that. I, I've just accepted that. Like I just said it, like that's gonna happen,

Brent: Well, listen, we saw in the vision of the future girl, Baldi going and she, uh, Sinclair tried to prevent it, but I don't think he's gonna prevent it in the end. Hey, question. Uh, the girl that was being trampled on in the opening scene, uh, very, very, very nicely trampled on by the way.

Jeff: Very gently.

Brent: Yes. Very gently. Um, was that Kiki's?

Jeff: I don't know.

Brent: like, I need my husband. I need my husband, I need my, and Sheridan like grabs her and takes her over to Zach and Zach's like, Hey, what's up? How you doing, babe? Like, I was like, are they in a, and then at the end it didn't seem like they were, but then it seemed like they were, and I'm like, uh, that's, I don't think she was supposed to be, but it seemed a little more familiar than just, Hey, let me help you get to your husband,

Jeff: it might not have been her husband, but it is Kik

Brent: Yeah. I wonder if she's had a hickey from Kenne. Huh?

Jeff: Right.

Brent: Um, so Sheridan, uh, speaking of that whole scene, people are looking at him like he's a freaking God having come back from the dead

Jeff: Yeah. Her exact quote. My God, that was him, wasn't

Brent: Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, I don't like it. I don't want to be that. And Lori's like, you've got to be that.

You are going to be this. And I'm sitting here think. I know of another station captain who didn't like being a religious icon.

Jeff: Yep. But ha, once he wore it, everything started moving the way it needed to go. And that counts for an earlier buzz. So I'm gonna ride that one

Brent: I was wondering if you're gonna let that attach. Um, yeah.

Jeff: But I have a theory because, and this builds off your theory that, uh, he's gonna, you know, leave, leave his pregnant wife and go off to become a God somewhere.

Brent: He'll be a second one.

Jeff: huh?

Brent: be a second one

Jeff: I think he'll be a new first

Brent: or a third one.

Jeff: because I think Lorian, we got hints that he's using his life, he's shortening his life to extend Sheridan's life. I think that he's lorian is grooming him not just to lead this war, but to replace.

Brent: this is, this is what we saw happen. Withdrawal a much bigger.

Jeff: Yes. Yeah, that's great. That's good.

Brent: Sheridan's, the new battery of the universe.

Jeff: He is. Yeah. We got draw on Epsilon three. Sheridan's got the whole thing.

Brent: right. Um, that's interesting, Jeff. I hadn't thought I, I, I hadn't, I hadn't played it forward, what it actually would mean, but yeah, that, that could be an interesting, here's a, I don't think that Sheridan is when he leaves at the end.

I don't think he's dying. Right, because here's What did he say? He said he, I gave him 20 years and then he will be no more.

Jeff: He will stop.

Brent: He'll just stop. He'll just cease. He, he will be no more. Do you know who else is referred to like that from the Bible? We know j m s likes to pull his references in from the old, old, old Testament.

Enoch.

Jeff: Wow.

Brent: a guy who was, who the, the, the way it's phrased is, is he walked faithfully with God. And then he was no more. And the implication being that he never died. He was just taken whatever, whatever that actually means. He never died. He was just taken and, and, uh, that is the vibe that I got when Lo Lauren was very specific with his words,

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: you know?

Um, so yeah, I, I had didn't quite go to the next side of what he's gonna be taken to or where he'll be,

Jeff: Yeah. Cause it's apparent he's grooming him for something, right. And

Brent: Yeah. Like, like, uh, jinx o was groomed to replace the seeker guy.

Jeff: mm-hmm. , David Warner.

Brent: Oh. Oh. Does, is David Warner still the singular best guest star that Babylon five has had so far?

Jeff: Yeah. I think soap and, and, and, and this is why he's, he won't be beat because, because he elevated a, a rubber adult toy. he legitimized it on screen.

Brent: He acted against a dildo.

Jeff: he did did better than most, any actor on this show is done against a human like

Brent: I don't know if you need to bleep that or not, Jeff. This is a family friendly show. Sorry, sorry to everybody out there.

Jeff: it's just have, this is what you make a pickle cake out of. That's all.

Brent: What the, anyway, um, . So, yeah. Uh, and Lorian is giving his life to Sheridan, just like that machine from quality of mercy.

Jeff: Yes. I had that

Brent: We're pulling all of these pieces, like we saw this little thing and this little thing and this little thing, and this little thing that kind of preps you for what's getting ready to happen with

Jeff: Right. It's weird. It's almost like that's what people have been telling us all

Brent: Oh yeah. Foreshadowing, right? Yeah.

Jeff: We had this scene with, uh, Dalen and Sheridan, right? Where they kind of had their apology thing. And I loved, I, the thing I loved about this scene was the, a big theme that we picked up heavy in the third season, but throughout Babylon five is the theme of forgiveness. And when she's like, the worst thing I could imagine is you coming back and not being able to forgive me, and you could just watch his body collapse.

He's just like, oh my God, I can't believe you'd even think that. You know? And he's like, of course I forgive you. Of course I do. I thought that, I thought that was pretty cool. I am, I am not qualified to dive into the next thought that I have, but the, the. An interpersonal conflict. The best thing you can ever do, and we've talked about this on the show before quite a bit, but the best thing you can do is talk to the other person, talk to them.

What we all know from our life experiences is that when a thing happens and it causes a rift and you start having that talk in your own head without the other person, it never goes well. Right? And you spin yourself outta control. That's what Dalen has been doing. From the time that Sheridan left for Zaha Doom, from that moment forward, she's been having this conversation in her own head and not being open to considering anything else.

And the minute he walked in, he's just like, dude, we are so cool. Like the only reason I'm here now is because we are so cool. She's like, oh, and they hug. And my just, all I could think was I, I wanted to be better. Then working herself up in a vacuum. And now that they've got it out in the open and they've hugged, get over it, move on, move on.

Stop, stop with it.

Brent: I think that is just your cold man heart

Jeff: it might be, it might be, I, uh, this will might resonate with people. I am an Enneagram number three. My wife is very into Enneagrams and yeah, I, there's a phrase and a book on them that just says, emotions are not productive. And that is a phrase that has come out of my mouth before . So you, you might be dead on

Brent: I, yeah. Uh, Brent is not that. Brent is the other side. And I was sitting there watching that whole scene going, Sheridan's a romantic. And he's a good dude. I, I mean, he sucks at, at proposing to his wife, and so did I, but like, he's there, he's got it. He thought about it. He went and bought her a ring and he's gonna put a ring on it.

And he's awkward and weird, but he just, he's got his, he, he's got his Wesley Crusher hair qu going, and he looks good. And he's just a good dude. And this is a solid relationship. And you know that she really, she's just been informed that her dude is, is gonna die on her in 20 years, like she knows.

Jeff: Which, seriously? 20 years and she's freaking out. 20 years is a long

time. They're going to,

Brent: now and 20 years,

Jeff: yeah, they're going to war. Right. Against an existential threat. . It could last two weeks, and she's like, I can't believe it's only 20 years.

It's

Brent: what he just said. That's literally what Sheridan said in the.

Jeff: Yeah. He's like, I'll be 60. I've had a good run. I thought in that moment I.

I'm older than Captain Sheridan. I don't know how I feel about that.

Brent: Yeah.

Jeff: How, how bad was your proposal to your wife?

Brent: it was bad.

Jeff: Really?

Brent: It was really bad. It was really bad. Uh, do we have extra time? We've got

Jeff: I, I, we have like two more notes to talk about and then we're diving in probably so I think.

Brent: You know what? I'm gonna save it. Oh, remind me. I'll tell you the story one day about, uh, about me proposing it was bad. It was so bad. I, it's a miracle that I actually got married because of that thing. Like,

Jeff: It'll be fun because mine was epic.

Brent: was it

Jeff: It was epic. Yeah.

Brent: my head it was going to be epic, but then it just, no

Jeff: All right. Story for another day. All right. So they got the big plan to go get new Kosh.

Brent: And I mean, they, it's, it's, this is what we were talking about earlier, Jeff, like Yep. And they did it and it happened. Kaha is off the station and now they can plan to do whatever they can do without him interfering.

Jeff: So I have three thoughts on the whole thing. One is New Kasha, complete idiot falling for lead's, little like . Oh my goodness. You look at this thing over here. Did you, you No, no over here. Walk this way this way and look at this . And he's like, okay, it's what? Are you serious? Wow. Secondly, um,

new caution, old Kosh plus Sheridan plus Lorian wrap up and they shoot out the, the station and they wrap the station and they go to the ship and it goes and blows up. How come that didn't happen when Old Kosh got. He just got beat down and there was no big BOGO that happened. Thought that was weird and just like Sheridan carried a piece of the katra of old Kosh.

Does someone have a piece of new Kosh and are we not done

Brent: Is it

Jeff: with him

Brent: I mean, ostensibly it'd be Lida, right?

Jeff: maybe all those times that he was coming out too hard. He was leaving little traces inside of her or something.

Brent: I'm just mad that Kosh one is like, that's how Kosh one goes out like.

Jeff: Yeah. Seemed kind of disappointing. Are we there? Well, we have reached. All right, Brent, we have reached the part of the show where we boil this all down. We see if this episode has any deep morals, any messages to it. Maybe it's got a little message of hope wrapped us, a little message of hope wrapped up for us.

We're gonna figure that out. Brent, by you rating this episode on a scale of zero to five Delta theories, just to see how strong any of those messages are and how Babylon five, they were delivered. Why don't you, uh, lay your rating upon us.

Brent: Jeff, you know how when we first started this show and we started explaining the whole idea of doing Deltas to folks and, and we'd say, listen, there are a lot of Star Trek episodes that we get zero deltas, cuz it's just an episode and it's a good episode. Doesn't mean you don't like it, it just means those messages really just didn't exist in this episode.

This episode was pretty much plot, plot, plot, plot, plot. There's really not much in this category. You might be able to look at one little thing somebody said or something that somebody did, and make this really abstract pull of what that means, but it's not what was intended in the episode. The episode is not holding up a mirror.

The episode is not giving you hope for a future. The episode is telling a story. So for this episode, I'm going zero Delta Furies not a one. And I'm gonna remind folks, this doesn't mean that I didn't like it, it just means it didn't have any of that message. That we're looking for. And if it doesn't have that message, then it can't even do it in a Babylon five way.

But you know what it did in a very Babylon five way pulled the story.

Jeff: Yeah, and a great

story. It's a

Brent: not what Delta Furies are for. So, uh, I will, I will throw it to you, Jeff, if you want to make a case for any sort of Delta Furies to add to this one, be my guest. But for me it's none.

Jeff: I was just looking through my notes, thinking like, there's gotta be something here. And

you're right, there's little

Brent: that's the point. You're trying to pull something out that doesn't really exist there. Like I, you know, I could give you the, Hey, don't be a jerk guy. Nobody likes to work with that dude. But that that'd be me pulling something out that that's not what the show intended.

Jeff: Yeah. I could pull out Zack, be a good friend, you know, whatever. But again, it wasn't the point of the show. It was building Zack up,

Brent: stuff. I was trying to get you to push the button to beep. Jeff

Jeff: Oh, I'm, I'm

Brent: you're looking at your

Jeff: I'm still digging. I'm like, there's gotta be, but you're right. I think, I mean, One of, one of the things I, I have the ability of doing is taking that one little nugget and blowing it up into a big thing, but there really aren't even those

nuggets in this one. So yeah, zero delta furies, I, I cannot disagree.

Brent: Well, Jeff, uh, this season we are, as we have for our past several seasons, we are creating the absolutely 100%, completely accurate and definitive, cannot argue with it whatsoever. Ranking of season four of Babylon five. Jeff, the question, it falls to you this week, where are we placing, falling toward apotheosis?

Our current rankings are, number one, whatever happened to Mr. Garabaldi. Number two, the summoning, and number three, the hour of the wolf. Where are you placing this one?

Jeff: I find myself in a similar situation that you were in last week, right? Of just like, well, where am I gonna put it? It's, this is gonna get just like garabaldi. This episode is gonna get caught in the backwash of a jump gate somewhere and blasted 12 light years away. And that's fine. That's because the, I, I am fully confident this is gonna be an incredible season.

We're just ra, we're just telling the story. We're telling the story. So I'm gonna ask myself as I look at these that are just telling a contiguous story at this point, what do I wanna watch again? And I still love whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi. That is the most fun, most alarming episode that we've watched in this season so far.

Summoning, I think, was great. Our, the wolf, it was my favorite, my favorite season opener to date

Brent: I agree. I would. I would agree.

Jeff: and it says a lot that my favorite season opener is sitting the number three of three right now, that that's speaking to the caliber of this season. But I would rather watch that episode again than this one.

And that's not a, I'm not bagging on this episode. I just feel like this literally moved things along that we picked up and everything else. I'm gonna make this our new number four.

Brent: Fair enough, fair enough. Um, I think we're gonna struggle with this all season, Jeff. I really do. I said it last week and I'm gonna say it again. I think we have entered a piece of storytelling where the storytelling of Babylon five has changed. And we are, hi. We're in hyper serialized television right now. That is week to week to week to week.

And it's all gonna form one story and stopping to analyze at midpoint, uh, at each episode spot. Um, you know, prior to this, everything was a self-contained episode.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: it fit into a larger story, but it was a self-contained episode. And for the most part, with the, with the exception, a a few exceptions, you could kinda shake some of the episodes up and watch them in, in many different orders, you know?

Um, although again, there's a few you gotta watch in a certain way, but, but outside of that, most of 'em you could shake up. I don't know that that's gonna be the case here.

Jeff: we got a taste of it last season. What I'll call the severed Dreams trilogy.

Brent: Oh, yeah, yeah,

Jeff: Yeah. Like you got like, but those were self-contained episodes on their own beginning to end. That also had an, had a, an arc throughout them. These are self-contained episodes, beginning, middle, and end, but that arc that connects them is so much stronger that I don't have that satisfaction at the end of having watched an episode.

Brent: know, Jeff, I wonder, um, we were predicting earlier when Cartio is gonna get it right. , um, I, and then there's this whole thing with Lorian and Sheridan and the Lon and the shadows. I almost wonder if, do you, okay, do you remember last year, earlier this year, it was earlier this year when the new season of Star Trek Picard came out.

Jeff: Oh yeah,

Brent: All right. And you and I were doing the, we're doing the things, and, and at one point you get to, I think you got to like episode four and they, they like you and I had said that was the close of like the first act of the season.

Jeff: Like they actually had multi-episode acts that made

Brent: Exactly. I wonder if season like that would make sense to we season four, like, so, like let's say these first five or six episodes are the death of Carta and I don't know what's going on with Lori. You know, and then there's like a middle six, seven episodes and then there's a back six, seven episodes of the season and, and it ties those threads together.

I wonder if if it's gonna happen like that.

Jeff: Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. Right. And I think I, I, I, I want to say it here, I wanna put it on the record, but acknowledge that, like you said, this is like, this is hyper serialized television right now. It is important to state, this is the first hyper serialized television that's not like a mini-series, you know, or, or thing that's out there.

This is weekly sci-fi episodic television that's hyper serialized for the first time.

And

Brent: And uh, listen, we thought Deep Space Nine was hyper serialized. We thought Deep Space Nine gave us serialized television and led to serialized television. I would maybe the success of Deep Space Nine, although what Deep Space Nine really considered a success. I

Jeff: it was not, it's a, it's a streaming success, right? But it was not an airing

Brent: time, I mean, it did make it all seven seasons, but you know, what are they gonna do?

So, Yeah, I don't know. I mean, was Babylon, Babylon five? I don't think given history was considered a success at the time.

Jeff: I don't, don't, not at the time, I

Brent: beautiful as a story as it's been so far, and I imagine it's even more beautiful as we continue. I don't think at its time it was considered a success,

Jeff: Yeah. I think it would, I, and I don't know this, I have no authority, but it's probably found a lot more success in a DVD and streaming world than it did on tv. I think we see that just like from people in Australia, in the uk, where the networks there actually treated it like a real show, and they, they, they loved it.

They're all about it. Whereas here in the States, it was kind of like, eh, it'll be on TV at some time. like, there you go. Well, Brent, that's it. We're falling toward apotheosis next week. We're watching the Long Night

Brent: Mm.

Jeff: the first time. We love to play our games here on Babylon five for the first time and one.

Is that I just told Brent the name of the next episode.

Brent: We've seen this episode before.

Jeff: You're thinking along Dark.

Brent: Oh, okay.

Jeff: So this is the long night and, uh, yep. All you know at this point is everything, you know, up to this point in Babylon five and the name of the episode, we're gonna guess what the next episode is gonna be about based on that alone.

So, uh, this is not the long dark, so don't worry about that. This is the long night. What do you think it's gonna be about?

Brent: I mean, Jeff, this is a title that is used in sci-fi or some variation of it. It's already been used in Babon five. Uh, but this is, this is something that's used when, uh, war is upon you and you have to bunker in for a while. Uh, this is an episode. The epic stuff I think is gonna happen in like this was, I think of, um, game of Thrones.

This is like the pen ultimate episode, or maybe episode four of six or something like that when the big battle was happening. You know, it was the long night, you know, uh, big battle scenes, epic stuff happening. Um, all out war, maybe between the Volans and Babylon five

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: B, the vo, I mean, they just destroyed Kosh two, they're coming for Babylon five and Babylon five's gotta make it through the night with the Voor.

You know, they're waiting for, oh Lord of the Rings references, right? They're waiting for Gandolph to come over the ridge at light on the first day or the third day or whatever it is, right? Like, um, and perhaps this is the episode where Orlando and Veer enact their plan to assassinate, assassinate, uh, Carta. What do you think, Jeff?

Jeff: I think we're gonna get very little of the Lando Veer Carta Jakarta. I think we're gonna get them landing on, because it's a, it's a three day journey to Narn, they said. And so I think that we're gonna get probably some of them on the journey and maybe them arriving. Um, there and then we'll get the trial and the stuff in the future.

For this one though, I'm gonna lean on the community a little bit. I remember, I don't even remember what episode we had come out and we were talking about how um, things all tied together and someone said, yeah, just like that sequel to the Long dark called The Long Night. Like they said, the Long Night was a sequel to the Long Dark.

And at the time I just thought they were joking. I was like, haha. And there's a sequel to the Long Dark. You're so funny. Well, here we are, There's a long night, so I'm gonna say this is a sequel to the Long Dark. I think

Brent: That, well, that was the episode that we put all the way down at the bottom and like it stayed way down at the bottom, right?

Jeff: This was the one with, uh, Lieutenant Broccoli on it. Amos, what's his name?

And did a, did an admiral job, admirable job of trying to address P T S D

Brent: Right.

Jeff: and

Brent: is also where Sheridan got, or, uh, Franklin got creepy with the chick who just came out of the thaw, right?

Jeff: yep. There's that.

Brent: She just lost her husband and he's all like, let's go make out in my quarters.

Jeff: you, you look pretty sick. I mean, I have med lab, but I mean, I've also got this extra bed, so let's do that. It, uh, it also had that really, really, um, poor, um, depiction of what I think was a shadow that they shot down, um, in the thing. So I think there's gonna be a shadow on the ship. I don't think it's gonna be morden.

I think we're gonna get a, a shadow, um, of some kind. And here's where I'm gonna go wild with the prediction.

Brent: Okay.

Jeff: The enemy of my. Is my friend.

Brent: Is Ster coming back?

Jeff: Oh, that'd be awesome. I wasn't even thinking that, but I lo No, I was thinking that we're gonna get a temporary alliance between the Shadows and Babylon.

Brent: No, no. Shut up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You just lost. You had me and then you lost everything. Like, I don't care how I, if you are right up to that spot, you still get zero points just because of that. No, no, no, no, no,

Jeff: you win, but you're still a loser.

No.

Brent: there, I gotcha Jeff. That is stupid. No,

Jeff: Hey, desperate times. They call for desperate measures.

Brent: are you done yet?

Jeff: Yeah,

Brent: Because the doctor needs to go see you before you come back to podcasting again.

Jeff: I need to, I need to get some clearance. Can I not go see Dr. Franklin though?

Brent: You wanna go see Dr. Fran? He'll put that little thing on your head and go, that's.

Jeff: the thing on my head and then I'll probably try to, Hey, uh, either way, we're gonna find out next week what this episode is all about. , thank you all so much for joining us on this conversation that only went south, I dunno, three or four times, uh, during, during the, uh, whole time of our conversation.

Listen, we love reading your reviews on here so much. Please keep leaving those, we'll keep reading them. But if you really, really want to help us out from the bottom of my heart, I am asking you, I am begging you to subscribe, to follow, and to hit that share button on your podcast app, on YouTube. Wherever you're listening or watching, there's a share button.

Just hit that. Send this show to someone that you know will enjoy it. Someone who needs to watch Babbel on Five, or someone who hasn't watched it in a long time, it would mean the world to us. Well, Brent, until next time.

Brent: Hey Jeff.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. What's up?

Brent: Y you know, they're gonna wipe the floor with us.

Jeff: Yep.