Matters of Honor | For the Second Time

[0:44] The year is 2025. The name of the podcast, Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. Do that again. My name is Brent Allen. Do that again. That was so clippy. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. And my name's Jeff Akin. I hope you're doing okay there, Brent. And Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters. Then we watched Babylon five for the first time. Everything changed. So now we're watching this incredible series for the second time, catching all of those things. There's no possible way we could have caught the first time around. Editor's note. Do not edit that part. Leave that in exactly as it is. You can edit this part out.

[1:38] But don't worry, folks, Folks, we are still going to be searching for those sci-fi messages that we find in the series. Are they the ones that JMS intended? Probably not, but they're the ones that we're pulling out. We're looking for things that hold up a mirror to society, things that give us hope things can be better in the future, or maybe they just tell us how to be better human beings to one another. That being said, this is your one and only spoiler warning. If you have not seen this incredible show for the first time yourself, stop this show. Because from this point forward, Jeff and I are able, we can and we will reference things from any point at any point in time from any part of the franchise.

[2:23] Canonical, extra canonical in the show, outside of the show, it is all fair game for Jeff and I to talk about. So consider this your spoiler warning. Brett, this week we're starting the third season of Babylon five with its premiere matters of honor. Do you remember what you thought of this episode? The first time we watched it? I remember really liking this episode. If you were to ask me right now, what happens in this episode i could not detail it out but i like this episode and why because pretty much there's there are very few exclusions to the rule of i like this episode going forward i i don't know i just i i do remember i think very very highly this might be my second favorite i don't know it's either my second or third favorite of all the, um.

[3:19] Uh, seasoners. Yeah. I remember liking this one a lot as well. The two things I remember out of this one are Marcus, right? He shows up and the white star. I'm pretty sure that we get introduced to the white star in this one. And as a, as a, has a big moment for everything. But yeah, I, one thing Babylon five does really well, our season premieres, the openers, they do things. Yeah. They're all great. And this, this one was, was no exception whatsoever. Yeah. I remember enjoying this one a lot. Well, Jeff.

[3:55] You know, we do a thing here. We do a thing where we go back and we actually revisit our original episode. I did that for this one. Oh, okay. I know what we thought. Oh, I'm curious. Would you care to take a stroll down memory lane? Let's do it. Let's do it.

[4:12] Jeff, back then, you were the one who started every video. I did. Yeah, for the first time around. And we changed for this round. And in this one, you were really, really excited in your opening. Wow. You were so inflective. I was like, what in the world? Also, hey, by the way...

[4:42] New opening for the show today yeah the opening for our show then i was not a fan no no like the the music was okay it was the music for season three is so tonally different and we were using the season music for correct me if i'm wrong we were using the season music for the current season we were in as the bed for whatever we put on top right we were yeah and season three is just so totally different but also jeff whoever that was that we had doing the the year is and by the way here was the year is 2023 wow that's when we watched it the year is 2023 the name of the show babel on fire whoever did that not the same person who does it now yeah was very distracting to me Really? Yeah. I got it. It was like, whoa.

[5:34] Anyway, that was just mine. Jeff, you had probably the greatest comment that you read in the history of comments that we read in this. I love it. I love when we do that. Yeah. What was it? I actually meant to text you and be like, hey, go find that comment so you could reread it. But basically the gist of it was this was a person who got it. This was a person who basically was saying to their, like they were talking to their fellow viewers out there and they're like, Hey, listen, we all remember a lot of stuff and they don't. And their first watch is their first watch. Let's let their first watch be their first watch. And it was long and it was glorious. And I was like, yes, preach, preach. It was so good. It was so good. And it just, it's just one of those. And thankfully I think I can truly say this. The vast majority of our listeners, the vast majority of our patrons, of our people in our council chambers, people in our Discord, they all would actually fall into this category. Like they get it. There's a very vocal minority sometimes who don't. Yeah. Particularly in YouTube world and comments and all that sort of stuff. So anyway.

[6:52] Jeff, you said this was your favorite season opener so far. Okay. Okay. which i can't disagree of the three this this is the best tops yeah i mean because you had midnight on the firing line and then you had points of departure we found out something about jeff in this episode that surprised all of us and i'm assuming it surprised all of the other people out there just as much as it surprised me jeff did you guys know jeff is a 90210 guy, and he declared it loud and proud for all to hear right here on the show marcus cole baby, in fact he said 90210 for the first time is our next show i declared it god it's so good i watch it on pluto i still love the show.

[7:37] If you've watched my reactions to Jeremiah on our Patreon, I think it's the third or fourth episode I double down on that fandom. Because it's got Luke what's-his-face in it, right? Luke Perry is the lead on it, and there's an episode with Jason Priestley in it. Jason Priestley, yeah. Yeah, and as Nia points out in our council chambers, which by the way, the council chambers are joining us live for our recordings here. And if you want to join us live for the recordings and maybe have your comments worked into the show, you can find out more about that at patreon.com slash badnerds.

[8:07] And uh we can make that happen um but uh nia points out that 90210 was in fact not our next show it was not stargate was and is our next show still happening right now uh jeff you made this and i want i want to i want to give you a little feather in the cap a little kudo because i kind of i don't want to say i jumped out of my seat but it was one of those moments where i sat back and i went to old jeff just you wait jeff said i have a feeling that the rangers are far older and way more expansive than we've been led to believe oh okay okay yeah yeah and buddy boy howdy do we know that because you and i up to that point were under the impression that This was something that Sinclair started when he went to Mimbar as an ambassador. But you said that you also said that season three is going to be a lot of glimpses into the redemption of Londo Malari. Okay. Okay. So, because apparently in this one we get a bit of, and I, I mentioned this about Londo is it's it, we get classic Londo in this episode quite a bit. And you're like, this is, this is going to be what it, what it takes to bring him back around.

[9:20] We discussed to quite some extent, extent though, Jeff.

[9:24] All centauri or specifically londo were telepaths they just weren't telling us now we did go into a lot of like they can see their deaths or at least they purport to see their deaths and then there's this whole thing about like well they can see a possible future for their death which basically takes all the teeth out of it which i won't rehash all that but um we we spent quite a bit of time i didn't necessarily fully catch the context as to why outside of um i think there's Because we just learned that – what's her name? Ivanova is a latent telepath. And so like are we seeding – are we using that to seed a bigger idea and moving over that? I said that this season – or that this episode did not feel like a big season premiere. It just felt like the next episode after Fallen Knight. Okay. Like this could have been season two, episode 23. I said it doesn't have to be a big bang, bang, bang every episode. Just take the right next steps and that's what this episode did for me. I quite enjoyed this episode. I also said that I immediately liked Marcus. Yeah. And even though he was in the opening credits, I hoped we saw him more than six times. Right. That was my hope. Can we please see this guy more than six times? Well, I am glad to say now. Yeah.

[10:39] You and I can say with quite confidence, we will see him more than six times. At least three more times than six. At least. At least. At least. I said that this guy looked like basically what they based Viggo Mortensen's Aragorn on. Because this would have come out five years before that movie hit.

[10:57] I talked about how this show intros the White Star. Yeah, okay. And how this is where the show gets really, really good. Because as we know from sci-fi whenever you have a station-based show gotta have a ship whenever well but they don't get the ship for a couple seasons right and when they do get the ship man the show just so this is the marking point of where the show turns down i think we could argue jeff and one of the things i love about re-listening to these is we can hear what we said and then we can interact with that i think we could argue that the show has already turned on its trajectory and is shooting up and it did that last season but markedly season three is a rocket ship north, you know and so we are here so i asked um well before i did that uh i compared the shadows taking over centauri apparently we see the shadows taking over centauri prime here okay um to what we saw when the dominion took over cardassia prime and then i asked because remember there's the whole Babylon five deep space nine thing right is Londo the gold Dukat of the show like he's the villain but at times he's a sympathetic villain and I said maybe this ends up with the death of Londo you said that Londo might be a little bit more of the Damar.

[12:18] Oh okay now and i thought that was very astute now before we get into that, i just want to go back to i said this show ends up with the death of london we did see the death of londo in war without end right uh and i think we also saw it in in the beginning in the beginning right thank you no but also what's the other one midnight on the firing line yeah gathering something like that we saw the we saw the vision right but we also know that in sleeping in light londo has since died but i don't know that we can say that the show ends at his death so i I'm going to get a little esoteric in here. It does, though, because once he accepts the Keeper, he dies to everyone around him. And when you read in the Centauri, the trilogy that dives in deeper on that, he actively pushes anyone who's important in his life away. So it's a death of self sort of a thing that he experiences. So, I mean, sort of? I'll take it. Yeah, because you're right. It's the thing that says you're right. I think it's good. Sure. I'll take something that says I'm right.

[13:25] But you said he might be more of the Damar, which, you know, the Damar pointing out that Damar is a guy who drinks quite a bit, but he does that because of a guilty conscience. He is the guy who initially is fully embracing of the alien influence. And eventually he begins to push that away and he leads the resistance to it, all of which really is Londo. I think Damar is quite a much better foil for Londo. Not foil. That's not the right. Analog. Analog. Analog? Yeah. I think he's far better for that. I had a new theory though, Jeff.

[14:01] Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Before I go to that, I made a declaration. And this was the moment, Jeff, I ceased being a Star Trek podcaster. Mostly because my credentials got pulled. Yeah. Because I made the statement. Go figure. My mouth getting me in trouble. I made the statement that one episode of Sheridan in command of the White Star was better than all the other episodes of Cisco in command of the Defiant. Okay. Oh, them's fine words. All right. Now, last thing. I had a new theory. All right. I had a theory and I want to poke on this a little bit and I want us to unravel this just a little bit just to see where we were. Let's engage with this theory. Okay. All right. I asked this question. I said, what if all the different enemy fronts that we are now facing, Home Guard, Ministry of Peace, the Mars Uprising, the Mars Uprising, the Shadows, Psycor, all of those guys, right? What if they're all actually in league with each other and it's all the same threat?

[15:06] And here's the red yarn. And I said, what if the shadows, which are these – what we understood at this point to be sort of these ghostly figures. We didn't necessarily think they were corporal beings. OK. Because the first ones and different things are happening. And we also saw the shimmering with Morden. Yeah. Right. So they're not necessarily – and of course I'm sitting here thinking because I have the knowledge to be able to go, oh, ascended beings and that sort of thing. Right.

[15:36] So what if the shadows are actually trying to get humanity to a spot where the shadows via the telepaths could take over the bodies of humans and transfer their consciousness into them and take over the universe through humans? And this was a little bit based on the idea of how Mimbari and human souls are mingling. So we know that humans can mingle souls with other beings and stuff like that. What if what if that's where we were going the whole psych or program i said what if that was just to build up a base for the shadows to come in and take over humanity's bodies wow okay, setting ourselves up to be the gods of the universe and like the psych or was in league with that like that was their their thing you connected it with the mimbari as a force for good and said maybe that's the vorlons and by the way how do the vorlons reproduce we don't know but is it by taking over the bodies of other folks oh and that's why we see angels and old angels for each for each of their thing now i think we can pull on that thread and completely unravel that entire thing yeah we could not not difficult but i that's a good little i thought that was a Fun little theory It goes absolutely nowhere Because it's nothing But Well I think where It is something though Is both The Shadows and the Vorlon Shadows more But they Manipulate.

[17:06] From behind, they don't take over the human bodies, right, like the shadows, but they manipulate them to a point where they're doing the things they want. Sycor and the shadows and President Clark's regime are all kind of connected as one thing. You know, they're just not physically taking over. I think you were scratching on the reality of the story and just went deeper. And I think given the lore at that point with the souls mixing and things like that, it totally makes sense that you would have put that together. I think that's exactly what we got to look at is that there's, as you say, the lore at that point. I didn't have another frame of reference with which to be able to come at – I'm just taking what I – the information I had at hand. Yeah. You know, which was not right. So that's okay. So Jeff, that's a lot of the stuff that I found for, from us, from our original, um, uh, viewing, listening, whatever.

[18:07] What did JMS have to say? I'm sure he had some stuff to say on this particular episode as we enter a new season. He sure did. And he starts off talking about Marcus. It's predictable that I put someone into the show, you know, a guy with thick, long hair. Since every time I look in the mirror, I realize more and more that where I'm concerned, thick long hair will always be an unattainable science fiction concept. Okay. So really, his hair was the reason he got cast. He talks about the significance of the turning heads in the opening title sequence. Okay. And I like this quite a bit. Because this is the one where you kept making fun of in your video. Yeah, I did. We have a viewer, Jim, who also has a similar theory. I like this. But he was asked, JMS was asked, what the significance to the turning heads was. And his response was, yeah, I don't think even I could manage to be that obscure.

[19:07] But Jim's theory, which I like quite a bit, is those who turn their heads to look at the camera have nothing more to hide or be ashamed of at this point in the show. So I want to kind of pay attention to that. this time. Okay. He addresses the changing line in the opening sequence. Ivanova does the voiceover on this one, but we have historically talked about peace. Now we talk about being the last best hope for victory. He says that peace can be a surrender as well as an achievement, especially when facing an enemy dedicated to something unpleasant. Peace is a byproduct of victory against those.

[19:52] Whoa, that's pretty deep. That's very deep. I think oftentimes when we think of peace, we think of pacifism, right? Or not fighting. But when you have people who are against that, you have to, through whatever mechanism or means, have a victory against them. Somebody asked him if Morden and his associates are equal partners. Yeah. And he says well he may sometimes think of his associates as equals and my cat think he thinks he actually owns this house basically saying morden is like their cat you know.

[20:28] Yeah my my dogs think they own this house and they kind of do they're kind of not wrong yes like that's the thing he does talk about uh that they they did update and change to lens makeup in the third season just to more seamlessly kind of merge the head bone with everything. It needed it. It needed it. Yeah. This is an interesting one that I would never have guessed. He says the White Star was always in the plans for the series. It's an outgrowth of everything that has gone before. We've seen big warships, dreadnoughts, smaller ships, and personal fighters. This thing fits right in with the whole thing. But on the design of it he hates it, it's not a pretty ship did I just lose my Babylon 5 credit it's really not pretty, it's badass but it's not pretty from the outside he says that he caved to peer pressure they did a design, a mock up of it and everyone around him loved it and he says it's the biggest decision that he regrets along the series, he describes it as looking like a plucked chicken See you soon.

[21:37] Yeah yeah you mentioned in our first viewing that it just kind of felt like the next episode after fall of night yeah well there's actually two scripts that were written for this episode, okay he turned the first one in and uh and then after that he turned in the one that we'll actually see p10 for whatever reason made the decision we've talked about this a little bit before but they made the decision to air the season finale and then the next week air the season opener. And when he wrote the first script for matters of honor, it was like a season premiere, uh, really big and kind of resetting some of the things to, to move forward. But fall of night set so many things into motion that the first draft would have killed any momentum that was built. So the second script actually does just pick up from the last episode and go forward. Nailed it. Yeah, it's very good. And that's most of what he had to say on this thing that really, uh, really was of note. I look forward to hearing more as the season progresses, because there are some pretty big changes.

[22:49] On things. Uh, what do you say, Brent? We watch this episode, say, let's do it. Let's do it. What's about to happen is we're going to watch the episode right here, right now. We're going to bring it up. We're going to watch it with you. If you are watching us on YouTube, you're going to see the edited, uh, like reaction style video thing that, that, that goes through and then all that good stuff. And, uh, if you want to see the full, the full version with all the conversation and all the stuff of us just watching the episode itself, you can get that over at our Patreon page. It's at patreon.com slash bad nerds. And if you're listening to us on an audio podcasting app, you're going to hear the reaction and then we are going to meet you on the other side where we'll share our thoughts, talk about new messages that stood out to us. We're going to rank it. Although I have a feeling this one's going to be pretty easy. Might be. Yeah. I'm not sure how the discussion is going to go on it, but it should be pretty easy. So with that, Jeff, let's go watch an episode. Let's do it. Accessing file.

[23:58] I remember loving this the first time because it wasn't just, oh, it's the next week and everything's fixed. I've been looking for you. I definitely appreciate that. Hey, so we should talk. Last week. Yeah. We had a little personal. I didn't really get a chance to thank you properly. Being seen by so many at once was a great strain. I return to my ship to rest. We basically just got more cauched dialogue than we have cumulatively through the show to this point. You're right. Everyone saw something different, something from the legends of their own world, but it was still a terrible risk. After taking such care to hide what you really are, why take that chance?

[24:45] It was necessary. Well, his answers go short to the point utterly useless and totally consistent with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon. Utterly Vorlon. I love how he says all of that right to his face. Yeah. He says good. You know, I just had a thought. You've been back and forth to your home world so many times since you got here. How do I know you're the same Vorlon? That's a great question. Inside that encounter suit, you could be anyone. I have always been here. Oh yeah? You said that about me too. yes i still say that ties to the whole minbari belief of the universe good good sharon's like damn i do love how he pushes back on kosh like he's not in awe of him i think that's a thing like with the land and the minbari is there is this sort of awe in dealing with the vorlon sheridan has none of that he's just another dude on the station yeah uh ben uh points out over in our council chambers chat it's a small thing but as an editor which by the way ben i didn't know you were editing um cool maybe hit us up might have a job for you um i said something that bugs me is the white balance and a lot of the first half of season three is way too green on the remaster and kind of the original didn't look like this so interesting little note once he said that i was like yeah the whole thing looks very green i can't not see it so you're welcome world are you Ready? Oh, I remember this part. There it comes.

[26:14] That's not our normal Trazi game. That's exactly. It's weird.

[26:21] Take the chops. Not yet. Get you all the way outside the barrier. Feels good hearing his voice, Marcus's. Oh, that is Marcus's voice. Oh, I didn't catch that one. Okay. So is Drazi neither a ranger as well? JMS actually comments on that. Oh, okay. The ranger colony was financially supported by the Minbari. The Drazi allowed them to use one of their colony worlds as a base. There's no other. It's just literally they're getting paid rent. They're not involved with the Rangers at all. All right. At this point. Fair enough. Destination Babylon 5. Babylon 5.

[27:01] And the show just upscaled. Right along with the graphics. It was our last best hope. Piece we're gonna do this the right way go through and list it place yeah babylon five all right so each one is a person who still has something to hide right or not or something to be ashamed of, bruce box lightner not turning his head so he has something to hide or something to be ashamed of is it one or the other or is it specifically being ashamed of it's one or the other what's he hiding or what's he ashamed of is he ashamed of the fact that he's starting to like to land and he's still in love with his dead wife i think i'm almost thinking he has that to hide that he's falling in love with her but he's also like it's that's not that's not monumental enough to be a no turning your head what's he hiding oh uh delen in the check gives up the resistance.

[27:50] I guess you have to answer the question hiding from whom he's not hiding the resistance from us he's not hiding the resistance from his fellow resistors well he's hiding it from everyone who's not a fellow resistor like it's a secret that he has hmm i don't know that i love that answer but it might be the best answer available yeah but i don't i don't think i love that answer okay moving on avonava nothing to hide yep she's got it all out there she's got it all out there late in telepath her all her stuff's on the table right garibaldi same alcoholic recovering is what it is right yep now he'll have something to hide in a couple a couple of seasons but today is not that day uh ben says that when he comes back in season four he says he finally said goodbye to anna at zahadum so maybe he's still hiding that he hasn't let her go yet and ron agrees with ben i like that maybe but again i mean that kind of goes back to what i was saying was you know he's kind of fallen for delin when he still is hanging on to the baggage from his wife i don't i don't love that one either i like it better because there definitely is shame you like it better I'm sorry, you like it better than he's hiding the resistance. Mm-hmm, yeah.

[29:00] Just because of the shame part of it. Okay. Is it really shameful though? Why would it be shameful to still be? I'm not saying it's shameful. I'm saying that there's shame attached to that because I'm still in love with this other person, but I'm also now feeling love for someone else. It's a conflicting emotion that often results in a feeling of shame because our society frowns on things like that. Deborah says that for Sheridan, it might be guilt over that. And Trey says, Trey, I always love when Trey comments. He doesn't comment enough. You should do that, Trey. When he does, it matters.

[29:33] It's kind of like Teal'c in that way, right? Right. He said it could also be interpreted as still has a story path to be explored more deeply and possibly no dropped threads promise, though. Interesting idea. Who's next? All right. Dillon, not turning her head. What does she have to hide? What does she have to be ashamed? Well, so a lot of what she had to hide or whatever got worked out of her. In comes the Inquisitor. but she still has just uh i i i think i know exactly what it is what's that i'm gonna see if you can you get there she she's hiding the fact she's ashamed of the fact she is the one who started the earth mambari war at least she carries the guilt for that for having been the one to start that war right yeah i think that is it i think that's exactly what it is um as she goes there she's still that's still her thing right okay although i still say it's boo to, if you fault her for anything just fault her for voting yes not being the deciding factor yeah exactly nia makes a good point too maybe it's because she knows anna is possibly alive oh possibly possibly possibly biggs he's got his addiction uh franklin he's got his addiction he's hiding yeah also he's hiding the underground railroad although that's apparently not on.

[30:53] He's also hiding his role in the inappropriate behavior of how many patients? He's hiding the assault of multiple, multiple people. Jeff, stop it. We like Franklin. Stop it. You can like people who made bad choices multiple times. We like future Franklin. Yeah. There is such thing as redemption. There is. For all. Even for the unredeemable. Yeah. He doesn't bother hiding that. It's true. He doesn't. Well, he's right, right? All right. He's proud of his game. Oh, he hates humans. He hates humans, but what else? He loves Dylan. His love for Dylan. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Oh, what's he hiding? So Marcus has, at this point, everything. But we have his brother. We have his relationship past. We have all the stuff with his family see you're going to sugarcoat that i'm going to just simply say he's hiding the fact that he's a virgin not that there's anything wrong with being a virgin at any age folks well ron calls it out it's his brother is what i say but it's his reason for joining the rangers he holds on that he holds that tight for a long time okay i will i will accept that i like that better than anything we came up with for sheridan honestly.

[32:21] Yeah oh veer turning his head completely innocent dude he is who he is who he is love it, same with zach dude we imagine put take the three zach lanier and veer and zach and veer actually have more in common than lanier and any of the other ones do you know what i mean right Right, exactly.

[32:44] Zach wears his heart and his night watch banner on his sleeve. Dude, Jeff Conway, man, he was looking good in that shot. This is like the... Peak health for him was this by the way peter drissett this this image of londo does not look good no it does not and he is hiding everything literally everything yeah like he should keep like he should like be moving towards well he he sets his face and stones his face harder than anybody else has true right all right jakar turning forward not hiding anything yeah i think he's.

[33:23] He's fully out there. He's making his transitions. That's not to say he doesn't have any character growth left to go. Exactly. It's just saying his cards are all on the table. And Jakar honestly has kind of always been somebody whose cards are all out on the table. You know, he just highlights different cards at different times. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Let's hold some weight. It's a good theory. Dude, that's, that's a good podcast episode right there. That's what that is. You trying to cheer me up? No, sir. Wouldn't do it. Good. I love a lot of them I love Ivanova also is she a little more free with Sheridan these days I think she's always been kind of like this when it's just the two of them not when he was new yeah because they they go back a long ways do they he saw her throw somebody off a third story window okay she was a lieutenant all right I hate being cheered up it's depressing so in that case, We're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths. Thank you. I feel so much better. Is that a Mass Effect line? I hate being cheered up. It's depressing. I don't think so. It should be, though. It should be. Also, why does that? That sounds way more like a Nivanova line than it does a Sheridan line. Because they're buddies and they are bouncing off of each other.

[34:35] Captain Janet. Oh, yeah. I remember this guy. Ndawi. David Ndawi. Earth Force Special Intelligence Division. Sorry to jump in on you at the last moment, but i only got my orders a few days i remember liking this guy and being like he's just doing it's not being a jerk he's doing his job you were all about him but he also was um a person on star trek i think he's been a person on like so many things right but he was something he and you kept referring back to him as that oh really it was yeah i didn't write it down i forget what it was i it was one of those i just thought i would remember and now that i'm here in the moment i don't remember what it was might come to me oh zindi he was one of the zindi please is this where he breaks up with him? Yeah. I have been doing a great deal of thinking lately. With the non-war This was a lot of reading the tea leaves as he kept saying. I think it is time that we reconsider our relationship. Oh, and now that we've done everything that you've asked, you'd like us to just disappear. That'd be great. Yes. I do believe you have got it surrounded, Mr. Morton. Aren't you being a little premature? That only happened once. People are still moving on several other worlds. That's not what she said. We have danced our last little dance. I appreciate Londo's confidence here. Mm-hmm. He is steeled in this. So go away. It's like, fine. I'll just go call Rifa. Yeah. Oh, heard the shadows there. They were like, not yet, dude. Here's one small detail, Ambassador. A little book.

[36:04] Associates but let's say we reconvene in your quarters later this afternoon to discuss it yeah no you'll go away you go away for as long as you want no that is not a good idea stay in a very public place before i leave i will be speaking but when you break up with someone you break up with them you don't agree to see them again right you just break up because of our current good relations with and because as one of the older races ben points out in the chat uh that that line now it is time for you to go away was used when you quit the babylon 5 cd rom encyclopedia back in the day which i love the fact that there was a babylon 5 encyclopedia cd rom yeah that i i would not have thought that they would have had that but i love the fact it totally makes sense yeah pick it up free in the mail you might have some knowledge of the subject at hand i will of.

[37:00] Oh, yeah, that's right. Some of you may already have seen this on ISN. We yanked it off the air since we heard about it. This is gun camera footage from one of your star furies, is it not? Yes, Lieutenant Keffer. He was conducting a series of unauthorized investigations into an unknown ship he'd seen in hyperspace. Cost him his life. And you have no knowledge of his investigation? That's good distancing. Unauthorized investigations. We heard about it and tried to discourage him from continuing, but he disobeyed. Was he authorized for first... He's not even on the show anymore, and they're still burying him. This is the first time I've seen a ship like this. Sure. Take a good look. It's like, yeah, I got closer. It looks the same. Mm-hmm. Yes.

[37:42] I assume nothing like this has entered Babylon. The Mambari never lie, right, Jeff? Well, protecting someone's honor. Something like that I'd recognize. Well, I shouldn't have expected to hit it right off the bat. I'll need to speak with all the other ambassadors. And maybe it's because it's the first time she's ever seen that one. This may take a while, so if you could find me a place to stay. That's already been taken care of. A few months ago, you told me about an ancient race, the Shadows.

[38:07] This is one of theirs, isn't it? I'm sorry I could not tell him the truth, but our only chance is in allowing... She flat out confessed to her lie. Why don't we prepare our own forces? But you said you'd never seen one before. That part was true. Descriptions of these ships have come down to us from the last great war. Okay. I have never actually seen one until this moment. That is the face of our enemy. We've never seen anything like it. Given its strength, its size, and its apparent hostility. Until we know otherwise... I almost wish we would get a shot of Londo's initial like reaction of like, oh, shoot. And then him playing it smooth. Oh, he's just being honest. Do you think he knew that those were shadow ships? That's the people he's been doing stuff with? I don't think so. This is the pieces starting to fall into place for him. Yeah. And there are ships just like this. Passing. Overhead.

[39:11] Now ask if there's alcohol on it. It's safe. I'll check it for you. Just Marcus. Of course it's safe. I know the effect it has on Minbari. But since most don't, I figured it would help prove I was waiting for you. Can I have it back now, please? No, I meant the drink. Do you know, I've heard that when these are made... Oh, this is the explanation. ...they're forged in white-hot flame, then cooled in three bowls. The first is some kind of ancient holy water. The second, Minbari blood. The third, human blood. They say that when a ranger dies, the figures on either side shed three tears, one of water and two of blood. And you. Where do they get the blood from? I know. If you're going to soak it in blood, that's a lot of blood. It is. Where are you draining that much blood from? It's part of the initiation. It's probably your blood. I guess. When you become a ranger, they're like.

[40:01] But then, yeah, you got to get one from the other species as well. And has Mambari blood also red? I don't know. Do you believe? Yes. I think we see some. I was leaving in miracles a long time ago, I think. Part of the heart goes dead. It's best to leave it that way. That's so sad. Yeah. I need your help, Delenn. This is Marcus. He's a ranger. They've been trained to fight the shadows and keep... Ivanova's great in this one. The rangers in this area are under the direct control of you, Ambassador Delenn, and Garibaldi is functioning as your liaison. I love Garibaldi's look on his face. When did you... How did you... Captain, the day something happens around here and I don't know about it, worry.

[40:41] That's in Mass Effect. Yep. That line's in Mass Effect. I love that you're drawing these now. This is so great. I just heard it the other day.

[40:50] I want to know if this if he always intended for avanova to know this stuff.

[40:55] Or like was it a okay i don't i don't have time to go through all that so i'm just going to make her know it because it's a bono and she can do that or has he been slow playing this since season two yeah you know it's a good question yeah nia says avanova makes the best ranger one when she finally takes over head cannon probably a lot of truth to that also so marcus fights a lot like lanier does did you notice that like their fighting style seems very very similar because we know lanier can kick some major bootay yes the lynn not so much and it makes me wonder about they're both raised religious class right or religious caste i'm sorry um is there some difference in their training is this part of his third chudomo are the rangers from one of the chudomos like where do the martial arts come from yeah and why well and why wasn't dylan able to like do some stuff. She was throwing that pike with some skill. Yeah, but not to the level the other two were. Yeah. I have questions now. I just have questions. Somebody's gonna be like, oh, it's in a book! We were surrounded by Centauri blockade mines. Any ship trying to leave the blockade is shot down. We need your help now, before anyone else is killed or the camp is invaded. All you have to do is break the blockade long enough for the other rangers to escape. Look, to lead an expedition into drowsy space to take out a planetary blockade you'd need a warship major ordinance a crew we don't have those kind of resources we're already in hot water with the centauri over the last we have the means.

[42:25] If you have the will. When I agreed to share command of the Rangers with Delenn, I became responsible for their well-being. I'm not going to abandon them now. Michael. I like that Delenn smile. She's like, tell him the right choice. Buy me as much time as you can. Will do. Fire up a shuttle, Commander.

[42:42] We've got work to do. Yeah, let's do it.

[42:47] Since you feel strongly about going our separate ways, I wanted to be sure we understood the terms of our separation. Yeah, the terms are you walk away and never come back, right? It's almost like a divorce. Like, no, we've actually got to have a legal, like, term. For all the worlds you like, we won't bother you. As long as it's understood that this area is ours. You can take anything you want over here and we'll take everything we want over there. What guarantee do we have that your forces will not decide to turn around and attack us? None. We both know what promises and treaties mean. All I can tell you is we have what we want. The rest is of no concern to us. What is it they want, Jeff? What is it they have that they want? So I was just trying to think. Like, is this a bluff? Is he, like, they have what they want. They've started the war, and that's what they want. And so, like, the land actually doesn't mean anything to them. It's not like they have bases stationed throughout. Like, what, they're not, the shadows, as we know, are not in this to control and dominate everybody and have their own territory. That's not their motivations here. I think this is a complicated threat. So it's not the point of we get this territory, you get this territory. The point is you have nothing to guarantee that we won't do something else. Right. That's the point of this whole thing is like, look, we can come kill you at any time. So sure, go ahead. You're fine. Yeah. Let's draw a line down the middle of the room. Yeah. Just do that. And this, the line doesn't matter. What matters is we might cross it at some point and I am telling you as much. Right. But sure, we can part ways. Yeah.

[44:15] You don't know you you can lose our protection i also love this scene how like they show the lines to us like they make them apparent as if we know what it means right you know well it's that area i also very much loved the you saw the laser pointer yeah like you be on this side and we'll be on this side i love that they did that yeah you know um although we had questions about what i'm sure they're getting ready to talk about here in just a moment oh oh just one more thing one small there's always one small thing this world it's on the border of your space but we have a vested interest in it. I've taken the liberty of asking Lord Rifa to secure it for us. Rifa? Oh. You said you wanted nothing more to do with us, and he was quite open to my request. Good day, Ambassador. Mr. Morden, I was thinking. So we talked about this. Why go through that whole deal? If you're going to draw a line down the middle of the room, just, if you already want that, just carve that. Make that a part of the line that you're drawing.

[45:08] You know, like why, outside of he's actually just trying to wrinkle which is probably more what's going on yeah he's like i might come and attack you also i'm still i'm still in bed with the centauri you're just out of it now tell your forces to leave the blockade mines but to move their ships out of that area you don't want them or anyone else hanging around my associates come for zagro seven zagro seven it's where the shuttle's headed oh no we're approaching the rendezvous point wait i've got a what the hell is that all right ron ron asked the question zagros haven't we heard that name before no we watched it the first time i don't know that we have all right ron talk to us i'm gonna i'm gonna sit here and wait for the seven seconds that it takes you know to go back and forth um something about in the beginning i'm not getting it are you getting it jeff i'm thinking we heard it before in this episode yeah oh okay he's just oh some some shadow your way some shadow some shit yeah okay, all right i i can accept that that's good i can accept that okay yep well done i actually was thinking he was he was saying he do i was like look no we have never heard of zagro 7 before it's beautiful it's brand new her name.

[46:20] And she's yours, Captain. She's not beautiful. She's kind of whatever, but I'll still take a bottle of the ship. It kind of looks like a plucked chicken. But if there is anything you could tell us about this ship. I actually have a book all about it, sir. I'd like to share with you this most amazing book. Hey, that's the leaf of Jaquan, the Jaquaneth flower. I tried to warn the others that the ancient enemy was returning. And now I'm trying to warn you. perhaps now they will but if this is correct why would they just disappear for a thousand years all things there is a time mr endowey turn perhaps this is the meter it's thinking the exact same.

[47:05] I don't usually speak unless i have something to say then we have something in common oh look at this they're already coming together the rangers my brother joined six months before it is fun thinking about how much she says she should have boffed him he came back to warn me about a shadow attack on the mining colony i was working at you were running i got back just in time to see him die before he died he asked me to finish what he'd started i keep my promises approaching zagro i keep my promises think about that between the two of them also he sure does he just checked her out oh yeah look at that watch his eyes go down yep watch his eyes and there it is.

[47:49] You know i i say this with the utmost respect and confidence that claudia christian would be okay with me saying this studying the weapon system can you blame him really keep scanning it's bound to be a centauri warship hanging around to keep an eye on things and i do not want to get caught in a crossfire triumphant music like check out our technology i love the hex grin Delenn, what else can this ship do? All in good time. Do we ever see this screen thing again? Oh, yeah. We're picking up a disturbance. We do? Yeah. One ship, unknown configuration. Show me shadows man the cameras they have on the outside holes of these if they could amazing if they could put a cuss word in this that would have been the point to do it sure oh we're not ready for this yet then we better get ready and fast we came this far we're going to finish what that's not what delin's talking about continue attack delin's talking much bigger than yeah this is where All right, this is going to start it all.

[48:53] That's why we load them up. That shadow ship did not enter the jump gate. Right? It was closed. They just phased. Glenn, chill out. I'm Captain John Sheridan. Shut up. Starkiller. I like my line better. With all due respect, Ambassador. Tell them to head to the local junkyard. Section 47 has been a whole lot cooler. Why this junkyard? It's expendable. Used to be the Mark Cap system. That's right, yeah. Since they died off, other races have been using the abandoned gate to strip the place bare. I do not like grave robbers. They should take care of two problems at once. She can just randomly kill a bunch of other people. Stand by, junk gate sequence. Yvonneville, you ride the jump engines. Be ready on my signal. You ready? No. But you may proceed anyway. She's kind of in awe right now, just like, how is he doing this? Activate jump gate sequence. She's feeling a little tickly underneath the belt. Half jump engines online. Now. Exactly. Punch it!

[50:01] Hang on! Jeff, I think we found where the budget for the season premiere went. Right. Everybody all right? So John Sheridan destroys a Minbari cruiser, destroys a shadow ship. Yeah. Star killer lives. Captain Sheridan, Commander Ivanova, so good of you to join us. Now it's Ivanova. Could you please explain to me where you have been? But we've been... Assisting my government by towing a disabled Minbari shuttle to a nearby jump point. Yes, it took quite a while. We just got back. And why is there no mention of this in the station logs? It seems straightforward enough. It was a diplomatic shuttle carrying important government documents. We were asked as a courtesy to keep this confidential. Delenn is a liar, liar, pants on fire through this whole episode. Now that we've taken care of that. Is this where Delenn turns into the side check? Is there anything else we can do for you, Mr. Andowie? No. Like, she's just there.

[51:00] I have everything I came for. You'll find the report quite complete, Senator. And no one knows what this ship is or where it came from. Not that I could return. Good work on this, Andowie. I'll let you know what we find. Here's the big reveal yep i told you to wait outside you could have been seen no harm no knows who i am it's all here i don't have much to go on waiting from the narns yes well and the but i think we've neutralized that problem tell me that would have been best earth they could have gotten oh yeah i can see the ship's a complete mystery to all of them good my associates be very happy to hear that there's no need to rush things your government can dismiss this as an isolated incident i don't know there's something about this idea of a threat to planetary security i find very appealing as long as we keep the real truth to ourselves there's no reason we can't use this situation to speed up the program here at home yeah this program what program have in mind what program what program jeff greetings program.

[52:01] Although, I think the Clark program. To do what? To introduce, to make Earth more of a disruptor in things. No? What are you thinking? Mm-mm. Mm-mm. We know that the shadows are in cahoots with the, with the, the sidecore folks. The sidecore is trying to track down all these, what do they call it, blips? Mm-hmm. And they're going to take them and turn them into food or fodder or CPUs basically for their ships. Mm-hmm. Right? Because they have like a resistance, I guess, to other telepaths and stuff. I think that's the program. Yeah. We can accelerate the program. Maybe. I think that one's already moving, though, at pretty full speed. Well, they can make it go faster. Make it go faster. That's my thought. What's your thought? Send us an email. Less like Susan here. So I'm creating a war council. We'll meet every two weeks for now, unless something urgent comes up. It's a club. We'll have badges and T-shirts and hats.

[52:59] It'll be five dollars dues every year we'll have a pizza party yeah whatever knowledge or information we have there'll be a password at the clubhouse door there are no ground rules anyone can say anything he or she wants to say that sounds like a ground then i have a question granted i'm stuck in med lab most of the time and granted i'm usually the last to know anything around here he sounds like we've all been pretty busy lately but could someone tell me what the hell these shadows are i'm glad you're beings in the universe billions of years older than any of our races like let me queue up this older episode and we'll just watch this scene right make sure jakar is not in here because he can't know this.

[53:46] Shadow they're older than the vorlons in this version of the story well brent matters of honor were officially in season three what do you got so i said that this felt like episode 23 of season two just the next episode didn't feel like a big bang bang episode i don't agree with that anymore no i don't know that this is a big like.

[54:09] Melt my face off type of an episode but all that space battle stuff there the whole stuff with the white star like it's pretty big deal yeah you know uh this all this moved everything down the field that we needed it to move it kicked things off it started uh if you think of each season as a chapter or its own little novel or however you want to think about it this is the pilot episode this is a pilot episode right and it's what you need like it's the pilot episode we needed for season three it really it really is i said before on our first watch and i will reiterate here i will never not watch this episode every time this episode's on on our laundry scale this is a stop what you're doing and just watch the episode you don't keep doing laundry while this episode's on you know um yeah suzanne's like you're absolutely right brent let's go kick your other self's arms right yeah sometimes i'd like to i'm sure many other people would too but yeah what just what a good episode man like i think it goes back to what jms was saying in the yeah jms speaks thing of like it has to continue it but like we're gonna do all this stuff now and ivanova's line of peace failed now it's our best hope for victory yeah this ended like we had the white star introduced We have a warrior in Marcus introduced, and it ended with the formation of a war council.

[55:36] Yeah. Like the first two seasons, we're laying groundwork. We were seeking peace. We're doing those. Now we're going to war.

[55:43] Crystal question. I have a question though. Well, I'm a, I'm a pin this question real quick. Give us your kind of initial thoughts coming off of this. I feel very much like you did.

[55:53] This is a great start to everything on a second watch i like this one quite a bit just because we we know what's coming right like we understand that scene in the you know earth dome with with morden and the psychor person and stuff there we understand that more we understand what a big deal it is that sheridan blew that shadow ship up in the scope of stuff like it's a thing that i think If I remember right, Justin brings some of this stuff up to like, you know, you open a jump gate in the atmosphere, you opened a jump gate in a, or a jump point in the jump gate. You did all these things, uh, just these things you're not supposed to do. And you're doing them. Like you're not playing, you're not playing by the rules. Yeah.

[56:36] Knock it off stop it i think the introduction to marcus was excellently done it makes it makes sense you know like it flows i think that like to compare it to the introduction of kefir it's just like hey all of a sudden we have a pilot that we're not really going to do anything that's just there this guy it just rolls with everything and why couldn't this be kefir it 100 it could have been like you just got rid of the actor and again you we and i said this i think last last week in our wrap-up show i almost feel bad for the actor because it just sounds like he was caught in a in a in a bad spot and you know marcus was always part of the plan cool could you not have made him kefir and and not done him dirty like i understand you're kind of pissed off that the studio forced him on you but still like yeah i i totally could have flown flown that way or flowed yeah that way and worked out what uh what do we i'm sorry do we appreciate this episode more now because of what we know jms said because of like the simple stuff that they put in like the head turning thing.

[57:45] And we know about how hard it is for the shadows to go and we know what's going to happen with the earth shadow alliance and we know that the shadows are going absolutely nowhere now even and the Londo kind of shoot him away. And we know how this war council really plays out. We know how important Marcus is to the story. Like, do we appreciate this episode more because we know how it ends than maybe we did certainly in the first watch? I don't think so.

[58:12] I disagree. Yeah. At least for me, I feel like I appreciate this episode more because I know all of that other stuff. The stuff you said at the beginning during the JMS speech actually enhanced my viewing of it this time around. I was not prepared for that going into today's watch. So that's what it was for me. I think I said more of a sense of awe the first time around. Like there's just some jaw-dropping stuff. Now it's, yep, there's that thing that turns into this other. You know what I mean? like i'm already i'm already seeing the white star fleet out there like you know in season five and, you know and seeing them blasting you know like blowing up shadow ships doesn't become a normal thing but it becomes a thing like i'm seeing that whereas in the first time around this is just like holy crap look at all this stuff this is huge we're getting the the ranger the background on the rangers and stuff i don't know i i'm not it's not a like a comparison thing it's just like the first time I was more blown away by this episode. So I have a question. Yeah. The end of this episode makes a really big deal and does this big reveal that the Shadows are working with Earth and Psycor. Yeah. And they have been.

[59:24] Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I'm not going to say that that's a dropped thread. It's far from a dropped thread. Okay. I know they use it. I know it comes back. It underpins all of Bester's story going forward. It underpins the ultimate battle that we get. But as far as the cooperation between the Shadows, Psycor, and Earth, and what we get to see, Not just all of the stuff that it underpins, but the stuff that we actually, do you kind of feel shortchanged and like this was a big reveal for something that really didn't become that big of a thing in the show or it could have been much bigger and had a much bigger part of the show than what we wound up getting? My mind immediately goes to Endgame again. I say again because we were talking about that in the other day. End game, an episode, which by the way, is not for almost two full seasons. Exactly. Like 40, let's hear 22 episodes a season. It's 41 episodes, 42 episodes away. Okay. Keep going. Well, what I'm saying though is like we get the shadow enhanced destroyers, you know, and some technology and stuff that are there.

[1:00:46] And how are they enhanced? I have shadow technology. I don't know. They're more powerful. They get blowed up. This is where I'm, this is where I'm going is that episode, that sequence of the final battle of the earth civil war was such a letdown to me the first time around and because it was a compressed storyline, right? They, they thought they were done. It's, it's, they had to do what they had to do, but I have to believe that with some of those ideas, there was going to be more of an impact for, you know, from all of that, like, oh my gosh, it was super powerful new destroyers that have this and then they just blow them up like everything else. And it's like, oh, okay. My thought of it is Marcus goes to Londo to enroll the Centauri into their thing, right? And they use them in this, we're going to use you to start this war with the Narn. And then we're going to expand it to this. What I imagined happened was Marcus went to Clark or the Psycorps, you know, president or somebody and was like, hey, we want to enroll Earth in this thing. What do you need us to do? What do you want? And they're like, we want to rule the Earth this way. We want to, you know, human. And so it's not a question of it not being utilized, but it's a question of them utilizing it in a different way. Earth was more them focused, whereas the Centauri were more manifest destiny focused. But still, given the jaw drop, it just feels like we didn't do much with it.

[1:02:10] Well, I don't know. I don't know that I agree with that. We also find out they work with the Drazi. We find out that they work with the game. Like they're working with everyone in ways just to stir stuff up and start fights, I think. Okay. No, no. But it's okay. So to, to what you're saying there. Yeah. They're working with everybody. This is a thing that they're doing. It's a thing they're doing. But when we got that scene, it was now maybe this was just my reaction. Maybe you had a different reaction, but I was like, oh my God, they're on earth. Oh my God. What are they doing? And the sidecars there too.

[1:02:44] Versus. Yeah. Here they are working with everybody. and we're just one of them we're just one of the pawns yeah and oh yeah sure there's a program there yeah yeah that'll that'll be a thing yeah i don't know i i think that we got what we got was appropriate for what we would have gotten maybe what i need is i need this the other side of the series i need the the the scenes we didn't get the scenes back on earth between these people while all of this is happening how did it all get set up and we need going forward you need what we Not with Morden and Londo with the people on earth. Yeah, that's maybe like. Because it felt like that was going to be a big thing, like a big thing. And we just sort of reference it. It's referenced in the future. It does. I don't know. That's just, that's my thought right now.

[1:03:32] Kind of come like i remember looking at that going oh this this was a big reveal it doesn't feel as big to me now yeah and maybe it's because it's also old news and it's old hat and i do see the places where it what does yeah i'm not saying it doesn't affect anything well i think this is where i'm saying i had such a bigger sense of awe the first time around yeah didn't know where any of this was going oh my god now it's like i know where it all goes okay right and you can and you can compartmentalize it in the way it needs to be compartmentalized and in fact i want to own this fear that i have in our second time watch okay to date i've been blown away a number of times with watching something for the second time oh my god this is great whatever yeah my fear is that the further we get into season three and especially season four yeah it's going to become a harder watch because what starts to happen here in a while is things start to pay off which is exciting the first time around, but even the first time around, we were kind of like, yeah, I mean, it was an episode. This happened and that happened because we knew this was going to happen. And I don't know if it's going to have the same impact the second time around. So I think this might be one of the first points of that. Like, I know where these things go and don't go. And that colored my enjoyment of the episode. I think Ben over in our council chambers actually just said it in fewer words than I did, where he said, Brent's not wrong.

[1:04:55] Oh, yeah. Just Brent's not wrong. No, no, I'm joking. No, he says, he says it's less OMG, this is big and more. Oh, okay. All the pieces are fitting together. Yes. It's not, ah, it's more, oh, I see where all this is. This makes, this is good stuff. Yeah. What about the messages on this one, Brent? Did you get any new messages this time around?

[1:05:20] Honestly, Jeff. I was lost in the episode. Yeah. I was lost in the episode. I didn't. I mean, I'm sure I could sit here and think about something, but I'd just be pulling something out of the air. Why don't, what about you? Did you pull anything specific out of this one? No, there's a line that Dylan had. I don't even remember it, but I'm sure we talked about it in the first, the first time. I'm sure we did. It was a thing. But yeah, this time I, again, I was caught in the episode. Absolutely. And I don't know that I really got trying to think just really quickly. I don't think there was a real message in this one that I picked up yeah how about you guys did you guys get a message you can email us you can.

[1:06:03] Leave us a message on our website you can leave us a rating and review and put it there, Leave a comment down below. We'd love to know. Let us know. Ron says this, be responsible for those you have authority over. I do love that spot with Sheridan where he says, hey, I took command and now I'm responsible, so I'm going to be that. Yeah, that was great. Took it super seriously. Yeah. Well, Jeff. Yes. That being said, we get to do the best part of the whole show, which is place this in our 100% completely accurate and definitive ranking season three, Babylon 5, for the second time. Jeff gets to do this. My friend, where are you going to place this one? Yeah, this is, I had to give this a lot of thought. This is number one. This is going to start out number one on a season. Where did this one end up the first time? You know, I haven't prepared for that. I haven't pulled down the season three rankings from the first time yet. Gosh, Jeff. Gosh. I know, but I remember it maybe hit like number 21 or something like that. No. No, it did not. No. No.

[1:07:07] Ron says it's last. Right. We ranked it 22 from the go. We're just like right away. We long dark it. I think I know what episode might be last. Yeah. I don't think it's the last one for us. I don't think it was last. But we'll see. I'll pull it up. We'll have it ready. We'll compare it next time. But yeah, right now, number one. All right.

[1:07:25] There we go. There we go. Well, Jeff, that's going to do it for Matters of Honor. Next week, episode two is on deck. Title of this one, my friend, is Convictions. Convictions. Now, back when we did this the first time, we made predictions as to what we thought the episode was going to be about prior to seeing it. Here's my question. One, as you sit right now, do you remember exactly what Convictions was about? I remember. That's a yes or no. That's a yes or no question. I'm not asking you. Yes. You do. Okay. I don't. Oh, you will. Oh, I'm sure I will. Yeah. I always start going into it. You're like, oh my God, it's this one. Oh, it's this episode. Cool. Because I'm usually like I'm 50-50 placing episode titles with what happens in the episodes. And in a show like this, something happening in a certain, like it all sort of mixes together. Like it's all a pool. So I'm excited to see. So you do remember. Okay. There's a part of this one that will definitely be like, oh my gosh, it's this one. Okay. Oh, wait. is this the bomb one yes oh dirty episode okay um well not as excited now anyway jeff prior to knowing it you made a prediction as to what this episode might be about it did unless you lied to us and i don't think you lied to us so what was that prediction way back when when we had no idea what was coming, I thought this was going to be our long-awaited sidekicks episode.

[1:08:49] Oh, yeah. Veer was going to have to make a choice. He's going to risk getting caught and losing everything, but he does it anyway because of his convictions. Oh. And we're going to get more of that Lanier and Veer at the bar speaking in code kind of stuff. Man, that was such a good scene. And we don't get nearly enough. Does it happen like one more time in the whole series or something like that? Something like that. Because when they say goodbye to each other, pretty much. Oh, that's right. Do you remember what you predicted for this one? I did. I did. I said this was going to be a Franklin episode. And as tongue-in-cheek as it often is, I wasn't so tongue-in-cheek with this one. What I said was is he's going to have to finally deal with the consequences of his most controversial action he's ever taken. The government of the Great Egg people are going to show up and try to extradite him for what he did to that little boy. And he's going to have to deal with his convictions of whether or not he was right, wrong, all that sort of stuff. That is far from what happens. It is. But I still want to see that episode. It'd be a great episode. That would be a great episode. You know what I mean? Frankly, getting some comeuppance.

[1:09:57] Right. Right. It'd be fantastic. Hey, thanks everybody for hanging out with us as we head into season three of this whole thing. If you haven't already, please make sure you subscribe to wherever you're watching, wherever you're listening. You can also uh leave us some stars ratings reviews comments do all that kind of stuff if you want to really help us out just share this show uh you can share with someone who loves science fiction who loves babylon 5 or someone that you would just want to open up their uh their their viewing stuff or whatever just introduce them to the bigger world of everything else so with that until next time hey jeff yeah what's up hey question yep all right, Jeff's on a station one day a ship shows up and you're given command.

[1:10:43] What's the first thing you do? Where's the first place you take that ship out? What do you go do? Honestly, the first, we're talking to space ship, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. It's like a boat or something like that. Your show's about to get really good. What are you doing? I say, oh man, first start of the right and on till morning. It's a Star Trek six line is what it is. It's where that's totally from originally. That's what I would say. What about you? Well it would nothing be it would not be anything so lame as that that's not lame that's super cool it would not be that lame you know what i would do what's that i would i would seek out, those that i have long-standing beef with okay and i would drop a bomb and poison their atmosphere, until they gave up their person for me to take and throw them in jail yes michael eddington i'm coming for you christ i mean we're not some some deep space franchise this station is about something that was harsh man that was dark.