Rising Star

Jeff: Welcome to Babylon 5 for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I am the one who was,

Brent: And I'm Brent Allen and I am the one who will be,

Jeff: and we're watching Babylon five for the first time. For you, the one who is.

Brent: and we are two veteran Star Trek podcasters, as Jeff said, watching this show for the very first time. But in doing so, we are taking those skills we've learned as overanalyzing. Any 45 minute segment of tv and we're bringing that right here to Babylon five, where we're searching for what we call Star Trek like messages, but we're trying to see how they're being done in a Babylon five way.

Jeff: While this is not an any random sci-fi show podcast, this is a podcast about Babylon five. So to keep us on target, we play the rule of three and the rule of three limits each one of us to no more than three references to Star Trek per episode. That's it. Three. No substitutions, exchanges are refund. I have really enjoyed Brent.

Whoops. I have really enjoyed Brent over the past couple of weeks

Brent: have enjoyed me. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Jeff: I enjoy you every week. It's one of the highlights of the, the many highlights that I have in my, my, my Glorious weeks

Brent: I wasn't sure where you were putting that comma, so go ahead. No.

Jeff: punctuation matters. But I've really enjoyed over the last couple of weeks seeing people join our Patreon community.

Brent: That's been fun. Yeah.

Jeff: It's been really cool, and they're not just joining it because of the cool content that's there, or the absolutely amazing community and super cool people, but they're joining because in two weeks time, Brent, you know what we're doing, don't you?

Brent: Is it just two weeks? Holy cow. It is our season four wrap up. This'll be the fourth one of these things we've done, Jeff, we just did season three like two weeks ago.

Jeff: Seriously. I, I, I, I am still coming to terms with, it's kinda like we talked about this a couple weeks ago, but it's like writing checks. Like I'm still not used to writing 2022 and it's 2024. We're in season four. Like, when did this happen?

Brent: right, right.

Jeff: But what we're doing in our season four wrap-up is an exciting giveaway.

It's what we do in all of our wrap-ups and this time we're giving away to a random patron. All you gotta do to enter is be someone on Patreon at any level, any tier. Enjoy the content, get to know people, and a random person will be selected to win the Babylon five encyclopedia, the complete hard cover in one massive paperback.

If you're listening to the audio version, head over to our YouTube and look at this thing like, this thing is no joke. It's over 800 pages with I imagine everything you could ever want to know about Babylon five.

Brent: You know what I want to know?

Jeff: What's that?

Brent: I want to know what color is predominant in J M S's wardrobe.

Jeff: I wonder if that's in there.

Brent: I listen. It is the complete encyclopedia, right?

Jeff: It's gotta be there.

Brent: It, it should be there if it's not,

Jeff: Well, when we

select 

Brent: you, you know what I, you know what color I think it is?

Jeff: what's that?

Brent: Poke bombing.

Jeff: I don't, I'm not even gonna get to my bank that has that. It's gonna be green. I'll just say it.

Brent: Poke bombing.

Jeff: Green for life.

Brent: Poke bombing.

Jeff: Green.

Brent: Poke bombing.

Jeff: Green. We're gonna do this. This is gonna happen.

Brent: Jeff.

Jeff: Brent,

Brent: I need one of those encyclopedias now. We're not allowed to w we're not allowed to read it for like another season or so.

Jeff: I, it's been so hard cuz I, it, it's been sitting here. Is everything okay? My computer's going weird.

Brent: yeah. You, yeah. Your video keeps like, fuzzing out for a second, then coming right back.

Jeff: I said this, like my whole system kind of picked up for a second. That was

Brent: Uhoh, uhoh, any winter storms knocking out the system up there.

Jeff: So about, okay. It has been so hard having this thing sitting here cuz like, I'm not gonna look in it. I know we've got, we have 23 more episodes from here and who knows what more we're gonna see. So Yeah, it's just sitting here. I haven't looked in there. It's killing me. It's killing me.

Brent: Yeah, I don't, it has taken everything within me to not go to, what do they call it, the lurkers guide

Jeff: think so,

Brent: on the internet, um, or not dive into Wikipedia on Babylon five or, you know, there's the little bits that we've kind of, people have kind of dropped here and there and gone, Ooh, that's a spoiler. And we're like, eh, we'll figure that out when we get there.

Try to ignore it. But I, uh, I I, that is absolutely the kind of book I would go through,

Jeff: totally.

Brent: you know? Absolutely. Uh, so in order to get that, Jeff, how do people get that? Cuz that's our giveaway.

Jeff: It is. So to go to patreon.com/babylon five, first, it's the number five and the word first sign up at any tier, any level that you want, and you're eligible to, uh, to win. Now the drawing's gonna be in two weeks from now. Um, we're gonna record before it comes out, obviously, right? So get in there as soon as possible.

I would say you've got, what, 10 days? Um, to, to, to

Brent: I would, I would say, uh, from when next week's episode drops. Right? Uh, so when the, when the season finale drops, whatever that episode title is. Um, so that'll be on Monday. I would say you, you realistically have until Wednesday because any point after that Wednesday we could be recording.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: So don't wait.

Jeff: Don't wait. Get it done. And like I said, there's cool content you can get in there really low. You can get in there pretty high. Nothing, nothing's gonna break the bank. And at every level there's, there's really cool stuff we're creating and putting out there and, and I can't overstate it.

There's just a lot of really cool people on the Patreon, on our discord. Uh, so get over there. patreon.com/babylon. Five first, the number five, the word first.

Brent: Jeff, I need 10 seconds.

Jeff: Alright, cool. Hi, YouTube. Hi. These are always awkward times. This's vamp for a little while. I may also just cut it out. You'll know if there's a hiccup. You won't know that I said that cuz I just did it. Or you'll know that I would do it that way. So

Brent: So a problem I have here in Florida at this time of year that you don't sometimes gets really hot

Jeff: yeah, I don't have that problem. No.

Brent: just, I'm sitting here and like, I just felt like a little bead of sweat dripped down the back of my leg and I was like, ah, I gotta go turn the air conditioner on cuz this is not gonna be

Jeff: The air conditioner. Okay.

Brent: Yes, yes,

Jeff: You live in very different places

Brent: yes. I also have a pool heater that is, that is running right now as well. Getting that water up to swimmable, swimmable temperatures,

Jeff: now. Look at that.

Brent: cuz it is in during the day, but at night, not so much.

All right. Where am I? Ah, rule of three. Okay. You know Jeff, along with cool stuff like doing giveaways and playing the rule of three, there's another game we like to play at the end of the show.

Jeff: Sure is.

Brent: Well, there's yet another game that we like to play right here at this part of the show where we look back at last week's prediction and we try to see how close we actually were.

So Jeff, this episode is titled Rising Star. Looking back at last week, what did you say this episode was supposed to be about and how close were you?

Jeff: I suffer once again from specificity, but I'm just doubling down on the prediction I made in the season three wrap up. So I believed that this episode would be Sheridan turning himself in, and then using the inquiry board or the tribunal or whatever it was gonna be as a platform to unite all the worlds under one banner.

Uh, the Babylon five banner.

Brent: Let's here, I'm gonna give you, all right, so he turned himself in.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: Uh, he did not use that platform,

Jeff: No,

Brent: although Dylan did. And although he kind of knew about it somehow too, although I think we'll talk more about it. I think it was more he just kind of had a feeling it would happen. He was sort of hoping it would happen and was pleasantly surprised when it did happen.

But anyway, um, so I'll get, I'll give you points for he turned himself in, although that was kind of a gimme, uh, and I'll give you points for uniting the worlds. I didn't see that one coming. Under the Babylon five banner. I cannot give you credit for that. So I'm gonna give you two out of five. So what is that 40%?

I'm gonna give you 0.4% on your, uh, prediction here.

Jeff: I love it. Let's see how you do.

Brent: yeah, well I said that Sheridan was gonna stand before the Board of Inquiry. Turns out he sat, but same thing I also said he was gonna be getting more and more famous, more and more popular. He's gonna have more and more clout among the citizenry of Earth. And I said he's going to be offered some high governmental position, maybe even the new president, although admittedly I was meaning Earth President, uh, but still maybe even new president. And that he would have to decide between that and returning to Babbel on five, which ultimately he would return to Babbel on five.

And I also said, we're gonna clean up the Marcus and Ivanova stuff.

Jeff: We did clean up the Marcus and Ava stuff, I suppose that did happen, and he turned himself in and he did become the new president, right? Like it was very new in there. You did a great job on this one. I'm gonna give you 75%

Brent: All right. I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah. I certainly wasn't exact, but there there was a lot that I was like, oh, oh, that's how that came about. Okay, cool. I like JMS is way better.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah.

Brent: Well, Jeff, uh, you know, some people are sitting here talking and going, well, what are you talking about? I don't remember any of that.

For the folks at home who haven't seen Rising Star in a long time, or maybe they've never seen Rising Star, they're just listening to us, which is totally cool. Hi, by the way, you should go watch this episode maybe right after we tell you everything about it. Jeff, why don't you tell the folks out there everything about it.

Jeff: The President is dead. Long lived. The president, the Earth Alliance political machine still works despite apparent, I guess, uh, division now. President Chenko of the Russian Consortium has endorsed an investigation into Clark's regime to root out the clear evil doers and separate them from the people that were afraid for their lives and just going along to get along.

Sheridan is waiting patiently to hear what his future holds. While waiting. Our buddy Ster pays him a little visit. They do their usual kind of sort of veiled threat thing until Ster just asks the million credit question, did you send Mike Carolyn to die as a tea Sicle? Sheridan assures him that she's still on Babylon five and gives some justification for sending these 30 of the 100 of them to the destroyers.

There are plans to return all of them to Earth. Once things settle down, he leaves Besta with a friendly warning. Though Garabaldi is coming for him and he can rest assured that he'll be creative, colorful, and extremely unpleasant in what he has planned. In the meantime though, he's practicing his extremely unpleasant approach to people as he tracks down lease.

He being Garrett Baldy. Some pretty ragtag punks. We're gonna try and ransom her, but Garabaldi and a crew of Rangers rescuer over time. This turns out pretty well for Garabaldi as we see him for the last time in the episode, lying in bed with Lee, trying so very hard to find just a moment of quiet so he and she can get some sleep.

Len's been busy in Sheridan's absence. She Londo and Kar have a proposal for the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, A proposal so unheard of that Londo, who we also learned is about to be named Emperor because Regent McKey joker guy, uh, you know, the guy we met, I don't know, some eight years ago or whatever is apparently gonna die.

But Londo says that everybody's gonna need a fresh pair of undies once they hear this proposal on earth. One of the generals comes in to let Sheridan know that they have made their decision. He along with his season one caliber acting step out as the president comes in to tell him what's coming.

Sheridan has a choice, accept amnesty for his crew and take full responsibility for his actions in exchange for his full pension and his resignation from Earth Force. Or he can be dishonorably discharged and brought to trial along with all of his staff, and he agrees to resign

on Babylon five. Franklin finally arrives and he gets to Marcus and Ivanova, but he's too late. Ivanova is recovering and it appears that Marcus has died. Having given his life for hers, she is so broken over this and she can't believe that he did it. She knew that he loved him, but she didn't wanna risk ruining her relationship with him.

Now that he's gone, she's brimming with regret almost. Top. Among those regrets was that she never buffed him brokenhearted, she says, and later in the episode, linear echoes that all love is unrequited. The President has called a press conference for Sheridan to announce his resignation, Londo Kar and Del Leonard.

Also there she starts by honoring the sacrifices. She starts by honoring the sacrifices made on both sides and points out that everyone was fighting for the same thing in earth. They could proudly call home at that. Sheridan says some pretty great things, and then he officially resigns. The president then invites Ambassador Jakarta, the podium.

He describes the human ability to build community and bring everyone together. He announces the proposal that was agreed upon earlier. You see, the League of Not Aligned Worlds has been dissolved and in its place, the Interstellar Alliance. You might recognize this concept under a different name from my prediction for season four in the season three wrap up.

After this, because everyone here is politically astute and understanding timing for delivering really big and important messages in front of all the humans that have just gone through almost a year of propaganda about the menari controlling and manipulating Sheridan and all the anti Clark people.

Jakarta decides to bring up Dalen. Dalen goes into more detail on the Interstellar Alliance Independence for me, for member wor independence, for member worlds free trade and epi and Economic and political Alliance. The Rangers will now accept members from all Interstellar Alliance worlds and will not be a military force per se, but they'll help secure borders and will only go or stay where and when.

Invited. They're not gonna get involved in interplanetary disputes, but we'll openly share information with everyone involved. The Rangers and the Alliance are not here to enforce the peace, but to create it. And she closes by inviting Earth to join. The President meets privately with them to negotiate.

She's open to the idea but is gonna need something tangible. So Dalen offers to share technology, specifically artificial gravity, so Earth can finally make some cool ships. She agrees to negotiate in good faith and is surprised when she learns who she will be negotiating with. She's gonna talk directly to the newly and duly elected president of the Interstellar Alliance, John j Sheridan.

As he heads into meter, he sees his dad. He's doing great, and he welcomes Delen to the family. Through an is n report, we learned that Earth has agreed to join the Interstellar Alliance. Sheridan's last act as an Earth Force captain was to promote Susan Ivanova to the rank of captain, and she's asked to be assigned to a new Warlock class destroyer, ultimately leaving Babylon five.

They also shared that Sheridan and Dalen were married in a private ceremony, but the honeymoon isn't private. Not as private as you'd think. Not only do we see the two of them lying in bed together, but so does Kar. Dude left his eye on a shelf pointed right at the bed. It's gross. And then as we close out the entire series of Babylon, five Dalen tells us the next 20 years looks.

I don't know what the heck I typed here. This is really weird. I'm gonna, here we go. And then as we close out the entire series of Babylon, five Dalen tells us the next 20 years hold much joy and much sadness. There's gonna be a telepath war, a Dr. War challenges to the alliance, but ultimately it will endure because love endures and Babylon five endures.

Brent, we did it. That's it. Babylon five. It's over. We've made it to the end a apparently. What did, what

we're, 

Brent: the, we have the series finale next week, which I think is probably, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna be, you know what, it'll be a clip show

Jeff: Yeah, it's gonna be another clip. Show that

this one really will be a clip

Brent: end the whole thing. And, and it's, it's what is gonna, they're gonna fast forward 20 years into the future and.

Everybody's moving out of Babylon. Five to go on with their next thing. And Babylon, the last shot will be, uh, Sheridan, uh, standing there to an empty living room and just looking around, remembering things, and then walking out as she shuts off the lights. That's next week's episode.

Jeff: That's gonna be it.

We're 

Brent: you know, this one effectively, effectively ended the rest of it.

So,

Jeff: So what, uh, how did you react to this film? What were your first thoughts on it?

Brent: um, I said two weeks ago that episode 21 is kind of a lull. While this one certainly was not action. Pew, pew, pew. Season finale. Explosions. Explosions, explosions. This episode was anything but a lull. Uh, you talk about a, about an episode that not answered questions, but wrapped things up. Brought things to a, to a satisfying conclusion.

Um, here, you know, here's what we know and, and it's hard to watch this not knowing the, the real world history that they thought they were done. they were done. P 10 was closing, Babylon five was getting kicked off there too, uh, is about to swoop in and rescue them. Or maybe they already have swooped in and rescued them, and, uh, they think they're closing out the show.

And that's what it feels like. And it feels good. Like if the show ended right here, I would be perfectly happy with, with the time I've spent on Babylon five I, and you know what? I'd be left wanting more.

Jeff: Yeah,

Brent: It makes me scared for season five because I'm kind of like, don't ruin it.

Jeff: dude, it,

Brent: Like, I feel so good right now.

Jeff: it makes me scared for episode 22, let alone

Brent: like next week. Yeah, yeah, Because yeah, so I, yeah. I have no idea how they're gonna close this up beyond what they've done today. Um, this episode made me laugh. It made me angry. It made me cry. I don't think I've ever, I mean, Jeff, I'm talking a real tear rolled down my cheek in this episode. I don't think that's ever happened to me before in this show.

Like, it got me, it absolutely got me. We'll talk about it. Probably not for very long, though. Um, th this brought, uh, a satisfying conclusion to everything. Uh, we know where kind of everybody is and where they're heading off. And, you know, Hey, delin gave us the, Hey look. There's this telepath thing. There's this, this thing with the drop that's gonna be, and it's gonna, it, it's gonna test the alliance, but it's not gonna break.

You're like, you know what? That's cool. Let's go. Here we are. So I enjoyed this episode, every single bit of it. What about you, Jeff?

Jeff: It was great. This was such a good episode. It was. I still feel like I, I I, I still feel that they are compacting and rushing a couple of stories, but, but that's mechanics at this point. I, I think you said it best. Like I am very satisfied where things ended. If this were the last episode, hooray. I love this series.

It's great. It's awesome.

Brent: I'm ready to watch it again. Let's go.

Jeff: I love the president. I loved ster. I hated the Ivanova and Marcus thing, but I loved the Ivanova and Marcus thing. Like, I get it, you know, like, I get it. It was good. But I have some pretty, and I think this, people are gonna disagree with this, and that's okay. We can, we all have our own experience with the show, but.

I, I think that they made a couple pretty serious missteps in this one, that, that pulled me out of it. Um, Dalen took away much more from this episode than she added to it. First. Like literally, like I said this in the recap, but hey, this thing that the Clark Machine has been telling you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna rub your face in it,

Brent: Mm-hmm.

Jeff: The Minbar are controlling everything. Well, now I'm gonna come up, I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna be her delivery. Like when she was talking, she's at that podium and talking. It was arrogant. She had an air of superiority as she was, as she was delivering these lines just in the music behind it had this ominous feel.

Brent: Mm-hmm.

Jeff: I'd been Joe, average citizen, just watch an I S N. And then I saw this. I would be mortified. This is everything that I've been hearing about for the year actually happening. And then not only does she say these things, they do a full military white star flyover of earth dome. This just this massive show of military force.

Hey, join us. It's cool, it's fine. If you don't, it's fine. I'm sure nothing battle happened to you that, that whole scene. I think a lot of it was the music on it too. It was ominous. It wasn't victorious or anything. And it just really, it really pulled me out of it. I think I'm worried about the next episode.

I'm worried about the fifth season, what they're gonna do. Um, I loved this episode. I enjoyed it. Don't hear me say that I, I I, that I did not enjoy it, but. It's not what I wanted. It's not how I wanted things to go. In fact, my immediate thought was, this is me as a kid telling my parents that I want a transformer toy.

And they're like, cool, we got you some transformers. And then they whip out some gobos. And I'm like, yeah, the gobos are fun too, but they're not transformers. And that's kind of where I'm left with this episode. Like, it's cool, it's fun. I love what they did, and I get why they did it. Right. I get why they had to plug things in here, but while I am left wanting more, I'm also wanting more from this.

And I wish a couple things were done. We're done differently.

Brent: I want to talk about the scene with Delenn and making the offer for the new, uh, what, what is it? Interstellar Alliance. 

Jeff: Yeah. 

Brent: Okay. Um, 100% agree about Delenn’s whole piece. I also just sort of wrote it off as, uh, I, I don't, I think I'm looking at it in a way that they're not meaning for it to be. When those white stars flew over Earth dome.

It was as threatening as all get out.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Like I, I would not be okay with that. Now, I don't know how they do it on Mbar. I dunno how they do it on Tari, but here that, you know what that looked like to me. Remember the shot of Londo looking up at the shadow ships flying over the world?

Jeff: great

Brent: That's what that looked like to me.

I'm like, this is an invasion. You're, you're, this is, this is not, this is not going to a football game. And then I'm doing a flyover with a single ship and somebody jumping out and landing in the middle of the field on the logo or anything like that. Like that's not what this is. Um, what you just told me is those rangers are going to be the police force, they're going to be the enforcers, and you tell me they're not.

They're just gonna, they're just gonna make sure everybody has all the information. They're gonna narc on everybody. But I don't believe it. I do, I do not believe that that's, What's coming from you outside of you And I both know that Dylan's a good, a good person. She's a good guy on the show. And so it has sh Well, her words have to be true.

Jeff: you and I know

that, but nobody, no, yeah, nobody on Earth does.

Brent: And, and I think you bring up a fantastic point that I hadn't thought about Jeff. They just came through the past year and a half of all this propaganda and you know, that like at least half those people in the government were kind of on Clark's side, you know?

Uh, and this is just feeding into that whole piece like this, this is going to disrupt the incredibly fragile balance that Earth is in right now. Having just had a civil war, having just had their president commit suicide over the whole thing and come out of this like, you know, Clark could not have done what he did if he did not have his supporters.

Jeff: exact, exactly.

Brent: Right. And, and his supporters are still there. Um, so I, I had a big problem with that. The other thing I had a problem with was Jaar got up and he spoke, and then Delin got up and she spoke. Londo just sat there.

Jeff: No lawn.

Brent: Londo, sh like I would've been perfectly okay if G’Kar got up and said what he said. Dylann got up and said, what, where if we could rewrite this episode, Jeff

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Dylann's portion needed to be a, Hey, we are aware that you guys have been taught this whole thing about Minbar and what we are and what we've been doing, and I, I am here as an ambassador to tell you that is not true.

Let me introduce you to these rangers. These are people that they come of their own free will and here we are and here's what we've been able to do to give that. And then she needs to seed co seed the podium. It's Alondo, right? Well, actually I think it should have been Londo first and then the final thing should have been Kar

Jeff: Yeah. Londo should not be discussing anything military tinged at

Brent: right.

Right. And if all three of 'em wanna be on the platform at the same time, cool. That's actually probably the way it should be. That presents a united front. I wouldn't have mind seeing some of the other non-aligned or the, the New Alliance. Show me, show me the, like those three made up the council. Okay. Why are those three making up the council?

Shouldn't everybody make like, gimme that. What? That was just a table of like 10 people that we saw. Put those people, all of the, there should be an ambassador from every single one of those worlds at this world. Inviting people to join. That needs to be the new welcoming committee.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: You know, Hey, we would love for you to come join us if you don't want to.

Absolutely. Cool. I loved that aspect of it. If you don't wanna do this, that's totally cool. Try not to worry about those guys that just flew overhead though.

Jeff: Seriously. Yeah. That, that are right here orbiting your planet. That is already war torn and broken.

Brent: Yeah, yeah. That you heard that all of this was just, just jacked up. Now that being said, you and I look at that and go, Ooh, that's a, that's a rough response. And here's some real stuff. Taking it for what the show meant for it to be.

Jeff: It was actually awesome.

Brent: It was amazing. And it was a gr it was a great, uh, next step. The dissolution of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, which I have hated since episode one.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: Why are you not aligned? You are like, what is this deal align? You guys are here, do it. Join together, form something, right?

Jeff: Get more votes. You get one vote collectively, like, come on.

Brent: yeah. Right. So, uh, to, to finally advance to that, to get to this point was really good to see.

Jeff: Yeah,

Brent: Really, really good to see, uh, Sheridan turning around, being the one to run it. Made all the sense in the world. And, uh, actually that plays a lot into what I'm hoping you are going to dive into in your, uh, uh, uh, Delta Fury message point later on.

Um, if not, I will add my own 2 cents to that. But I mean, Jeff, to me, the best part of this whole episode was sort of the fast one that Sheridan played on Ev like Sheridan played Mr. Long Con on the president, on his Earth Force people, on everybody and on us. I did not see Sheridan being in on this at all.

Let me ask you, I want to get specifically, uh, he's in there doing his whole deal and the president comes in, you know, and Sheridan's all like, I'm tired of sitting here. Listen, we've met whatever the president wants to come talk to you. And she comes in like a boss, the way a president should come in. What was your response to her? What is your feeling of her as a president? Although she's, you know, this is, she's very much the interim, I guess, right now or, or whatever they're gonna do. We'll see. Um, you gotta have somebody in charge. Right. Um, what did you think of her offer to Sheridan and her reasoning behind it?

Uh, take me through that because it was such an interesting part of the show, and then fast forward to, what about the response to the offer to join the new Interstellar Alliance?

Jeff: I'm a huge fan of this president. The way she was portrayed and acted was, yeah, total Boss. Amazing. Incredible. A real leader. I'm gonna talk about some of her leadership stuff that she, she brought in when we get to the Delta Fury conversation, because I mean, some of the stuff she brought up was just like, oh my gosh, this is what we need right now today at this moment, is this kind of leadership.

But it was fascinating with Sheridan, and I really appreciated the writing in this because she had that whole piece of like, you did the right thing the wrong way. And then she's like, actually, no, you just did it the inconvenient way.

Brent: Right.

Jeff: And I think that's, that, that mess, like she did such a great job describing that mess between what needs to happen and the political way things, uh, are, are better to happen.

You know, he left a mess. He left a huge mess the way he did this, but she also acknowledged to him that they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him. You know, Hey, you sec succeeded, so you were the only person that could do this, so thank you. Also, you gotta go and I think partly where she needed him to go was going back to your prediction for this one.

He's built up such a ground swell of support, so much, uh, notoriety and credibility that he's a political threat to her and anyone else who would want to be president. So she's like, you gotta resign, you gotta leave earth, you gotta get outta here cuz I can't, I can't have you as a political opponent, you're unbeatable.

So

Brent: I,

Jeff: like a lot of what she did, oh,

Brent: I really want to think better of her than that. Then I'm getting rid of you because of a, because of you being a political opponent. And you, and you might, you might take my job away that like

Jeff: that's how it works.

Brent: that, but that's, but that's not the way I read it.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: When she was taught you, she said, you came in here, you did this, nevertheless, you mut need, she's right.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: That's exact, that's why Gu Baldy had a point when he's like, what You're gonna tell me I'm doing wrong? Look at where we are and what we did. Right. You mut need, you did this. I can't have you here because of all these other people who are gonna be looking at that. You, you cannot, you know what it is? It's the same reason John Snow could not take up being king after having been in a re Sorry, guys.

Spoiler alert for the end of Game of Thrones. If you haven't seen it yet, go watch the show. You, you've, you've been living under a rock and this part wasn't even the good part anyway. Um, because he had had a relationship with Denaris. He, he was honestly disqualified from leading as a king, although he would've been fantastic. They needed somebody else. And I felt like that was a hundred percent right and a hundred percent fair. And she came in and she laid out. She's like, you did this. This is great. We're gonna honor you. We're going to, we're going to give you full honors and military pension. We're gonna make statues of you.

Schools are gonna be named after you. All of this stuff at the same time. You can't be around anymore. You are disqualified because you rose to mutiny. And, and I didn't see that as, because you're now a political opponent, but I can't have somebody who, I can't have somebody who always rose to mutiny in this situation.

Almost like a George Washington. Hey, you did this, now you have to seed power and walk away. And I'm talking when General Washington did that before he became president, um, you, you've got to walk away and, and it's okay. And if you don't, I didn't like how she said, if you don't, we're gonna drop the hammer on you.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. And, and not only we're gonna drop the hammer on you, but we're gonna go after all your people. But you know, it it like, she all, she made that sound really threatening. I didn't like that. I really kind of would've preferred that. Be more, um, if you don't do this, then the tribunal is gonna, they'll come after you and all those, and I can't stop them. But if you do this, I can, I can end it right now

Jeff: Well, I think that's where, where I see her, I think that's where I see her as a politician doing the political thing. You need to not be here. That thing I've seen quite a bit, you know, I'm involved in state politics

Brent: I was gonna say, let, let's, let's own our, our, our stuff because you are in politics on some level. I am, you know, I'm a baseball coach. I get in politics at the local parks and rec league. That's about it. And

Jeff: Which is some

Brent: I try to, and I try to stay out of those politics, to be honest with you. I don't want anything to do with that stuff anymore.

Jeff: So 

Brent: Let me drop off my kid and pick him up and let's go. I don't wanna be a part of that stuff anymore.

Jeff: In, uh, in local, state, local politics. And, and even at the federal level, this happens to a point, but you've got your kind of representative positions, a state legislature, your, your state house, whatever. And then you have what they call statewide positions.

This would be like a secretary of state or a treasurer, or a labor commissioner, governor, even. Uh, but those statewide, uh, elected positions and as a political alliances, this has nothing to do with friendship or respect necessarily, but as political alliances are built and plans, um, are laid out, sometimes someone is seen as a barrier.

I can remember, I don't know, 15 some odd years ago, we had two very prominent Democrats in our state senate. One was the Senate president and the other basically led the minority caucus against them within the Democratic caucus. And she just stonewalled everything, uh, that they'd try and do as, as a party.

So, The party decided to prop her up for statewide office to go run for a, for a statewide position to, to honor her. Right. Go do this great thing. You'll, you know, you've done a lot of great service. Go here, do this thing. Also get out of the way the legislators that are trying to get things done, you know, in a, in a representative piece, I really see that as a thing here with Sheridan.

It's the same, look, I, I can't have you running for this, but I will prop you up. I will turn you into a legend and a hero, but go away because you're gonna stop me from doing the things I wanna do. And that my party or consortium or however their, their system is set up wants to have happen here. And I think that the

Brent: Now see that? But that's fair. That like, like, I think that's fair. Like we can't govern with your ghost being here.

Jeff: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brent: You like, like it real, like I can't, I, I can't do that with you. Continuing to loom over this. I, I think that's, that's a similar reason when like a, a, a president or a CEO steps down from a company.

They can't just still be around because the, the ghost is still there. Like they've, they've got to go away, physically go away. So, which by the way is why, uh, gene Roddenberry. Did not want any references and a whole lot of talking about the original series when Next Generation came around, cuz he didn't want that looming over.

And when they brought Defor Kelly into the first one as a cameo that he didn't even play bones. He was just some old dude dressed up in makeup, you could barely tell who he was. It

Jeff: That's terrible Makeup.

Brent: was awful.

Jeff: So Ster comes in, well, there's a lot of, this episode was Sheridan waiting and uh, so we got the Chenko stuff that happened that, that we just talked about. And then Ster walks in.

Brent: Yep. I have a question for you about this ster thing. You and I have given the Bester storyline, a lot of flack. All right. I want to go all the way back to the very beginning. From the first time we saw ster come on with as little person and they're doing mind scans and they're here to look for people and then they're looking for rogue telepaths.

And the Underground Railroad and him and Talia and dissecting her, and he, he has his girlfriend and turns out they can actually stop the shadows, but his girlfriend's a rogue telepath and, uh, all of this stuff. And then they don't turn up during the vlan shadow war that you have given a lot of flack for.

And suddenly they, you know, yo fight is my fight captain. And then we come here. Oh, and then the whole garabaldi thing, like, I need to know what you need to know. That had absolutely nothing to do with anything else. Cool. Storyline, cool sideline, nothing to do with anybody else. Uh, does this, does this conclusion, and I'm gonna call it that for now because who knows what happens in season five, but does this conclusion for fester leave you in a satisfying spot? They, they did bring back up his girlfriend and they, they gave some more motivations. No.

Jeff: No, not at all. Not at all. I think, I think where, where I lost it for him was one that he keeps calling Carolyn his lover. That is just a

Brent: It's a bad line. It's a bad line. 

Jeff: it's uncomfortable to hear that, but honestly I think that he, he was swinging hard. Sheridan was swinging hard, but the last thing they left on was Sheridan being like, Gar Baldi is gonna kick your butt.

Watch out. He's gonna beat you up. And I'm just like, really? That's what you have. You've got that. That's it. Like you just laid out. And Ster didn't quite deny that. He has a massive plan to have the telepaths under his control take over everything. And you, you fire back with Aldi's gonna beat you up. I want more bester stuff.

I, I'm interested in what he's going to do with this, with the virus. I don't believe that he destroyed the virus. Um, you know, he is got the antidote. I think that I've been cheering for him to be an anti-hero this whole time. No, he needs to be the super villain. He needs to be Clark Times 10 coming in and not, not being manipulated by Cycorp, but him doing the manipulating, they set that up in this.

I'm excited for that.

Brent: You know, it's, it's interesting because when we first met Ster and through the first couple of seasons with Ster, it very much felt like Ster was in control of Cyco. If not like the top guy, like he's high enough in the organization, he's making stuff happen. That's what it felt like. But lately it doesn't feel like that.

Like it really feels like, no, he's got his role that he's playing and yeah, he's high up there, but he's not, uh, he's not in the council chambers, 

Jeff: Right. 

Brent: You know, he's not in the boardroom. Uh, he, he's a side cop. He's out doing field work. That's what he does, and.

Jeff: We saw, we saw him getting told what to do, you know, like, yeah.

Brent: Exactly. Um, you know, he was not in that meeting with Morden and the Earth Senator and the psyop, you know, it was above his pay grade.

Pay grade. So to see ster, seize control of Cyco could be a super interesting season five plot.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: I ki you know, and, and listen, delin told us about this, uh, the, the telepath war. I, I hope that's what gets picked up in season five, the, the DR thing and the telepath thing. I hope that's what gets picked up for season five.

Jeff: I don't care about the draw thing. I'll just say that right up. I, I'm in, if Ster is leading the telepath thing, I am here for ster. But in this moment, in this scene, am I okay with where they left Ster? No. That whole scene just left me with a no.

Brent: I, I'm not, I'm not either. Um, It does provide some closure for me to the whole girlfriend issue.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: And that's about as far as it takes me. But there's, I think there's still so much more ster stuff that could happen. And I think you're right. I think Bester certainly could of, of all people. Jeff Bester could be, this show's gold Duco

Jeff: Yes.

Brent: as a, as a character who, he's bad. Oh, wait a minute. He's actually sympathetic. Actually. He might be kind of, I kind of see it from his perspective. He's, he, he's turned a corner. What? Look, he could actually start, oh yeah, nevermind. He's absolutely the worst person and he's gone so far off the deep end.

We've got to throw this guy down the fire caves. Is my camera caught up yet? I know my cam, did you hear? Was my voice okay the whole time?

Jeff: Yeah. I, I, I heard

Brent: the important piece. So see you guys all at this. See, look, this is, I don't know why my camera, why is my camera jittery? I

Jeff: this is gonna be a fun video for people who've had a lot of hiccups.

Brent: Eh? It's okay.

Jeff: It's what we get for saying that we were going to do it,

Brent: No, this is the behind the scenes. This is how it goes.

Sometimes you gotta deal with the and technology and stuff like that, and Jeff's gonna make it sound pretty for the audio side. You guys just get to laugh at us in the middle of this, so.

Jeff: one, uh, last thought I have on, um, just kind of, I'll say like the pre, um, the pre-Reg Nation speech stuff and everything that happened in here was we opened up with an is n report, you know, telling us, you know, Hey, the president's doing this investigation and they're gonna examine and learn more about how the president took his own life.

Uh, in fact, we've left the room undisturbed and left the body there for examination. But somebody draped a,

Brent: I love this part.

Jeff: the, the trait to earth sign handwritten trait to earth sign on him and covered him where there's blood, uh, coming out of his chest, even though he shot himself in the head. And in the last episode we actually watched them wheel his body away, but they're leaving the room undisturbed for examination.

Yeah.

Brent: too, don't think too much about it, Jeff.

Jeff: I'm, I'm just getting way pedantic on this, what I

Brent: You are. Yep. Yep. You

Jeff: I wanted more outta this episode, you know what I mean? Like I want,

I don't 

Brent: you know something I wanted more out of this episode and the, the very opening scene where we first met the interim 

Jeff: Mm-hmm. 

Brent: is her name? I did not catch her name. Do you know Chenko? She's at the podium talking. Okay. This made me stop and go back and watch it again.

Behind her is her like little aid. Her attache a very young 20 something looking year old dude while she's talking at like obnoxiously. So somebody else comes up onto the podium, hands him some paper whispers in his ear, he whispers back, they have a whole conversation. Then he grabs a paper and just sits there and looks forward.

I want to know what that conversation was.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Something hap like, I kept expecting him to like interrupt her and say, we gotta get outta here. Something's going down. Like, nope, none of that ever happened. I wanna know what that is. It probably might have just been their lunch menu where they were having for lunch.

It really could have just, but to do that on screen and I mean, I thought that was so good. I really wonder if J M s wrote that into the script because that's something you see all the time whenever you're watching people deliver these speeches. Is is an aid comes in and talks and whispers behind and then they walk away.

Like you, you see that all the time. And the fact that we saw that on screen here, uh, I wonder if that was a script piece or if that was a directorial J job, but either way I thought that was really good, but I really want to know, really, really wanna know what

Jeff: that's one of the seeds for season five

Brent: Well, nothing's wasted in this show, Jeff.

Jeff: ever. Not a single thing.

Brent: Um, can we talk about Ivanova for a minute?

Jeff: I don't want to, but yeah.

Brent: Okay. Uh, her crying scene

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: I think might have been, um, Claudia's best acting moment of the whole series.

Jeff: It was amazing.

Brent: She did so good in this scene, and it effectively was her final scene.

Jeff: It really was. Cuz she's gone now.

Brent: We lost Marcus and Ivan. They, they killed Ivanova. Then they sent Marcus to take her place and brought Ivanova back to send her off again. What the hell is going on, Jeff?

Jeff: know. It's terrible.

Brent: Unless whatever ship this is is gonna be stationed at Babylon five and Ivanova is still gonna be around,

Jeff: And maybe she's a part-timer from this point forward.

Brent: you know, is she leaving? I'm assuming she's leaving the show and she's not in season five.

Jeff: I, I don't know what she did after this. You know, I, I know that she's worked. Claudia Christina's worked quite a bit, did a ton of incredible voice work, but, Like we've talked about, we've known this. Is it season four P 10 s folding? This is the end of the the road. She probably got another gig, and so this was, I don't know.

Brent: Or, or it was a, a Terry Ferrell situation. It was contract dis contracts were up, contract disputes. They couldn't get her to re-sign, they didn't wanna pay her what, what she was worth, you know, and, uh, they, they opted or somebody pissed somebody off.

Jeff: Maybe I doubt that. I doubt that,

Brent: you 

Jeff: but I don't know. 

Brent: but, but think about the emotional journey we've been on with Iba over the last couple of of episodes where they, they effectively killed her

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: and then they, where they had her in a halo and she was gonna die.

And we, this whole scene between her and Sheridan of saying, yep, you're gonna, you're gonna get it. And then to have Marcus go through his whole piece, only just to have Marcus die. And now she's, I mean, this is a Romeo and Juliet situation. They're both gone. Jeff,

Jeff: They're both gone.

Brent: both gone.

Jeff: I'll tell you, I mean, to your point, Ivanova could, could come back here and there, we could see her also hitting the sci-fi trope. We never saw Marcus' body.

Brent: That is fair.

Jeff: I mean, it's ridiculous. I

Brent: but they told us he was dead. They, they, they said he is dead. Even though we didn't see it, they, they said he is dead. So do you think Jeff is the, was this Yvanova's planned trap door? We know j m s built trap doors in for all of his characters. We saw the exit for Sheridan.

He or for Sinclair. I'm sorry. He's gonna go be the, the Mbar guy. Um, we never saw what happened to Lou. Where did Lou go? Remember Lou?

Jeff: Lou Lou became Zach. I think

Brent: Yeah. And, uh,

Jeff: it's too bad. I like zoo. I

Brent: and now. And now we've lost. Oh, and then, um, uh, let's hear Lida left and then she came back. Dr. What's his face? Kyle,

Jeff: Dr. Kyle Benjamin. Kyle

Brent: Dr. Kyle left, uh, Taima.

Jeff: Taima.

Brent: She left and now Ivanova is getting promoted to captain.

Jeff: Kodo Nata.

Brent: we never heard anything about nata. 

Jeff: Yeah, she natas Nata died on the Narn home world on Narn.

Brent: Oh, good. That's right. And good.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. They killed the right one.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah. That was, that

Jeff: Maybe it is though, cuz it, it's, it's also,

Brent: oh, yeah. Koda got spaced. That's

Jeff: she did. Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff: But with, with uh, this being a bonous trap door, maybe cuz it's, it, it is honestly a thing that could have happened at any point. There have been a lot of space battles.

Brent: Yeah,

Jeff: they have to do is write in the scene where the ship's navigation piece gets blasted and they run into a piece of debris when she's on the bridge.

Like it's a trap door they could have placed most anywhere.

Brent: sure.

Jeff: It made a lot of sense here. It was great, you know, a great spot for it, but it coulda could have been in season three.

Brent: Jeff. This leaves me with a realization. I'm just now piecing together. The top three people on Babylon five are no longer in place.

Jeff: Wow.

Brent: Sheridan's gone. He's not gonna be the president, so he's just gonna have an office over there somewhere. He's not even gonna get to keep his own office. He's not running Babylon five anymore. Um, Ivanna's gone.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: And Garabaldi is not chief of security. Does that mean the most senior member on the staff at Babylon? Five is Zach?

Jeff: Zach or Lieutenant Corwin.

Brent: Oh, Jeff, that's

Jeff: But you know what I could see though, cuz what wasn't clear to me, um, here is if Babylon five is coming back under Earth Force or not, I don't think it even came up. So maybe Dalen takes

Brent: just, as I just assumed, I think I just assumed with the end of the war, uh, earth is back in control of Babylon five cuz it's, it's still their station,

Jeff: Well that's what that was Sheridan's thing. We are leaving until Clark is, is out of, out of power.

Brent: now we're here. Um,

Jeff: One of the terms of the, uh, interstellar Alliance agreement was that the colonies were gonna vote on their sovereignty and Earth had to recognize that. Uh, so I wonder if Babylon five will go through that process or if they'll just

Brent: Well, I mean, Sheridan basically said Babylon five was its own colony, declared themselves a colony. And so maybe, maybe they have to go back and and vote on that. That, that's a good point, but I'm just saying l Okay, let's, let's assume Ivan was gone. She's not coming back. Sheridan's moved over to President Garabaldi is Anna's honeymoon with lease, which by the way, that whole thing with lease, I didn't need at all, the whole Daffy duck glitter bomb thing.

Jeff: it was funny, but I didn't need it.

Brent: I didn't, I didn't need it. I didn't mind it. I didn't hate it, did not hate it. But it was, it was, it was so tertiary to everything else that was happening.

Jeff: and they're gonna send like eight rangers to help with this. Like, really? I don't know. Yeah, I agree. I, I think the whole thing was just to set up that, uh, hey, Garabaldi, uh, lease leases, the head of Edgar's Industries, apparently there's no board of directors or anything. It's just a survivorship piece. And Garal is gonna work for her.

Brent: And they, they got married, GU Baldy, and Lisa got married.

Jeff: They did.

Brent: that's what he said. He said, they're gonna think I only married you for your money.

Jeff: Oh, okay. Okay.

Brent: You know? Uh, so I'm assuming that both Sheridan and Delin and Lisa and uh, uh, GU Baldy are now married.

Jeff: Lisa Hampton, Edgar Garabaldi.

Brent: I hope she drops a couple of those names. Um, and then Kar absolutely peeping on,

Jeff: dude,

Brent: here.

Here's the craziest thing, bro. Literally left his eye on the table, pointed at them.

Jeff: right there.

Brent: He didn't stu he didn't hide it inside a stuffed animal or a toy, or hide it in a jar and make it look like one of the rocks. No, no, no, no, no. He left his eyeball on the table.

Jeff: Yeah. It, I gotta read my note just on this, because like that scene and then, uh, Kar eating Rice, you know, and then, and then the, the, all the stuff. Alando and Ja Kar. Just comic relief now.

Brent: No,

Jeff: No.

Brent: no, no. I think having Londo and Kar being able to do a little buddy buddy, uh, provide a little of the, the comic relief moving stuff forward is greatly needed after the last three seasons of conflict between the two of them,

Jeff: I just, I just hate, and we talked about this last week so I won't dwell on it, but like, like it literally goes from pray. I never notice you again to, I'll sign the, uh, statement, but not on the same page to, uh, haha. I'm watching, uh, oh, my, I haha. I'm just

Brent: they both had, had, had, uh, confetti. On their, like in their hair and on top of their head. Yeah. Like from, I guess the wedding.

Jeff: but in like five episodes, like that's the scope of that was I hate you and we'll murder you to, now we're gonna joke about me eating rice because I, because I've never eaten rice before. Like, am I, am I supposed to believe that I, I don't know.

Brent: Well, Jeff, I mean it's, it's, let's not say that it's exactly a buddy-buddy friendship, because there also was one of the sickest burns we've heard in this entire series between Londo and Kar,

Jeff: Right. It's true.

Brent: where Londo full on calls Kar a minute, man.

Jeff: Yep.

a two minute, two minute man.

Yeah. But again, again, total comic relief. All to set up the announcement that, oh, by the way, Londo, Hey, I didn't know if you realized this, the series getting cut short. We had this whole, uh, storyline plan for you and me. Cause I'm veer telling you this news. Yeah. You're gonna be emperor and, uh, maybe we'll touch on that in the next episode.

Maybe we

Brent: you're gonna, you're gonna be emperor. We already know where it leads because we had war without end. Like, like that's the thing. We already know how this comes out because of war without

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: or at least one way that this could come out.

Jeff: To me, it's just, I don't know it. I'm trying, I'm trying not to be Mr. Mr. Pedantic here, but the last time we saw anything related to the Sonari was regent jokey mc, joker guy, getting that little controller thing on his neck and now he's sick and he is gonna die and Yolanda's gonna be emperor. Did, did that have anything to do with anything?

Brent: Buddy. This, uh, I mean, don't, don't forget Lando, this whole time has been the prime Minister

Jeff: yeah,

Brent: now. He, he has, uh, uh, what's the word, abdicated his role. And he shouldn't have. And there's no way that I'm gonna take somebody who's abdicated their role and turn them into the emperor.

Jeff: right,

Brent: You know, I, I mean, unless they did it, because he's the only palatable solution among everybody, you know, and he's also probably gonna be the easiest person to kill if we need to.

Um, so, uh, yeah. But, but I'm, I'm sorry, Jeff just, he said what he say, he's like, you know, if you, you'll, you'll go to a two minutes and you make it. I'm sure that's great. But, you know, we go our, and we're not even to the good parts yet.

Jeff: Well, they got six bases. They got

around. That takes time. 

Brent: And he's like, I'll help you with your, you know, your little problem. Uh, sorry. That's when, that's when Brent's impression turns into insult, the comic dog.

Jeff: That did, that was a short leap right there. That was, that was a short walk. Oh wow.

Brent: Oh.

Jeff: Oh man. A couple, uh, just other notes I had here was, uh, when Dalen introduces the proposal, Tolando and Jaar and Londo is just giddy beside him himself, beside himself. And he says, so rarely have I been in the presence of living history.

And I was like, um, let me remind you of that time you genocided the nans. Maybe there's that where you were part of living history.

Brent: Yeah. We aren't thinking about that. We don't bring that one up. Um, you know what, Jeff, as you say this, given a few more episodes, or maybe if they would've started this, I don't know, back during like episode seven or eight of this season.

Jeff: Yeah. And that weird hump that

we were in for a while. 

Brent: You know what I think would've been a great londo and Kar story if we put it through to go from you.

Better pray. I never see you again. I never notice you again to I'll sign it, but not on the same page. And then continue to put them in situations where both of their voices were needed. Not that they're joke, not that they're joking around with each other. Maybe they, you know, maybe they start busting each other's balls a little bit or whatever their body parts are.

Pouches, uh, appendages tentacles, right? Um, like, like they, like, it's a slow buildup of like the first time Kar has some sort of an insult back to, to Lando. Like, that's a huge step. You know, like, like that's Clark sitting there going, that man loves me. like with, with Odo, right? That's three, right?

That's my third. Um,

Jeff: Might

Brent: uh, but, but so, but something like that. Uh, a slow burn where Hey, Londo and Jaar, we need you guys both to be on this because it matters that the Centar and the Narn do this. Hey, we're gonna dissolve the, the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, and we need you guys to have your, not just sit here and laugh because I gave you a heads up to it, but no, no, we need your support.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: You have to work together on this, guys. You, because, because of the fight that you've just been in, the clout that you bring by working together is needed for this moment right here. That's why it would've been important to see Lando and Kar both giving a speech to the earth, uh, ambassadors, people, uh, to join this new alliance and not just have Londo sit over there with his arm on the back of the chair.

Jeff: Yeah. So we got, we got, we got it short, short, given to us. We got it rushed and compacted, and I think it, it's, it, to me, it it's turned them into comic relief in this whole thing

Brent: I 100%. See where you say that. I am interpreting it as what I just said. Just sped up 

Jeff: just sped up. Yeah, 

Brent: really, really fast.

Jeff: I agree with that.

Brent: Jeff, I have one more note

Jeff: Okay.

Brent: I said earlier. This episode made me mad. It made me laugh and it made me cry. Now, Jeff, when I say cry, I don't mean a tear rolled down my cheek. I'm talking full on blubbering. Had to stop the video, excuse myself, go dry my face and just sit there and have a whole moment to myself.

Jeff: Really?

Brent: that might be a little bit of an exaggeration, but this was a big deal to me, and I texted you and you were like, well, what was it? And I was like, we'll talk about it. The moment Sheridan was reunited with his dad,

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: I gotta tell you, uh, ever since I became a father, I can't handle these movies where something happens to the son or so, like these, like I lose it on these movies in ways that I'd never been able, like I never would've before.

This moment where he's just, I, he, Bruce Box Litner played this to perfection

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: dad, you know, and that, and, and dad just sitting there like, son, I'm here. You know? They didn't even touch mom at President. We'll, we'll, we'll catch up on that later. Like, it was such a touching moment and, and I, like, I did, I, I cry.

I'm, I'm just thinking about it right now. Like it was such a great moment given everything they've been through, the respect that the Sheridans have for each other. You know, when, when, right before he, he, uh, succeeded from Earth right before he mute need, he called his dad. And his dad said, son, you go do what you need to do.

Sheridan would not have been able to do what he needed to do. I dare say, uh, the VLAN thing would not have happened the way it did, and Earth would still be under Rule of Clark if it weren't for Mr. Sheridan.

Jeff: Totally,

Brent: Mr. Sheridan is the most important person in the Babylon five universe

Jeff: I can't

Brent: is the crux for everything. He brought down the shadows, he brought down the sonari, he brought down,

Jeff: He brought down President Clark.

Brent: yes, he freed Mars because of what he did and who he was.

Jeff: He was such a great dad. I think just the two things that stood out to me on top of like what you said, Bruce's just portrayal. That was, I mean just, oh, so good. But hey, like I'm Pres. I don't care if you're president. I don't care. Whatever. You're good. I'm good. Like all this other stuff is noise. I'm just We're we're good.

And then the immediate non questioning acceptance of Dalen. Hey, heard your joint in the family. Welcome. Oh, incredible. I have one last question for you.

Brent: Okay.

Jeff: What does it mean that all love is unrequited?

Brent: Um, this is the single line that, and I don't know that I have ever disagreed with a single line in this entire series so much as I disagree with this line. I have watched this episode twice now, and my impression is, is that this is Ava's experience. This is something she is saying that protects herself, that excuses her from what she's done, what she hasn't done, and it speaks to her experience.

In no way, shape or form, by the way, I'm sorry. Let me, let me come back to this. You and I have said throughout the course of this show that Ivanova is JM s's mouthpiece in the show. And if she's leaving, I don't know what's gonna happen, but she has been his mouthpiece. I wonder if this isn't also Jm s's personal philosophy of love and how things have happened and, and you know, he talked about, or she talked about people leaving that she really thought she could trust and the people that stayed were actually people you didn't really want at all.

And all love is unrequited Steven. And then she hugged Steven.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Like, do you not recognize the love that's happening between you and Steven right now? It doesn't. It's not all erotic love. Right. It, it, it, it, it is also, uh, there's unconditional love, brotherly love, such like there's, there's, there's not all love is unrequited.

I, I, I summarily reject that idea. While at the same time respecting that, that could be yvanova's, um, personal experience. And I don't wanna crap on that, but if I could, if I could grab her hands and look her in the face, look her in the eyes and say, Ivanova, I love you and you are wrong on this one. Not all love is unrequited.

And if you were to look around, you would see lots of people who love you. Let's look at Rabbi Kolo who came across the galaxy or universe or whatever to get to you because he cared about you. He postponed going home for you because he loves you. Let's talk about, uh, Talia, who very much was reciprocating your love.

You know, took you, putting down your walls for that to happen. Marcus was throwing himself at you for years. you were the one who, who, who sat back and said, no, your father tried to reach out to you. Your mother loved you. Uh, you look at the relationships you've built around Babylon, five and time here between Sheridan, Sinclair and St.

You're hugging Stephen Michael. The, the, remember when her and Michael were, were snipping back and forth only in a way that good friends could, and like I was even like, there's some, there's some sparks there. I could see that. And it never happened. And you were absolutely right to say, I hope that never happens.

They just stay friends that, that needed, like Ivanova was wrong. And I'm so sorry that this has been her experience. I'm so sorry that assuming I'm right about the j m s thing, I'm so sorry for him that if that has been his experience. But, uh, I summarily reject that notion that all love is unrequited. Beautiful line, though, beautifully said, wouldn't surprise me if some people have it tattooed on their body somewhere.

Jeff: Probably. Yeah. And I think it sets something up. One, um, you talk about Franklin hugging at Franklin was incredible in this. He was a great friend, he was a great listener, he was a great support. Uh, this was, this was a, a peak moment for Franklin. Also. He didn't say much, which, which helps, but, uh, but then that got

Brent: he did. You know what else he did really well to, he was able to break the tension at just the right moment.

Jeff: right? Yeah,

Brent: just say bff? Like he, he was able to, to, to break that and, and move you into another space, which was good.

Jeff: He's really good in that one. But then Lanier brought that up to Dalen. Hey, you know, I, did you hear that? They said this, which is kind of creepy that, uh, the men Barr are getting transcripts of what conversations are happening in private. But, um, you know, Del like, looks at him and she's like, oh, it's not true.

That's not true at all. Love is required. And Lanier's just looking at her like, You have no idea what you're even talking about right now. But I think to your point, it's, it's a mismatch of love. He has romantic love for her. She has, I don't know, parental maybe, you know, sort of a, sort of a love for linear, but I, I, I could fully believe that she loves Lanier.

So maybe it's not that all love is unrequited, but maybe your loves don't always quite match up. Maybe

Brent: Well, I don't know. Do you think that Dalen had a thing for Duco that Duco did not necessarily return for Dylann in that same way, still having, uh, love for Dalen as a, as a student, I guess you would say?

Jeff: I didn't get that impression. I know we talked about that in, uh, in Atonement where you, you thought that she did have a thing for him. I, I, I didn't get that in there, but, but it would also speak to her understanding, hey, it's not unrequited. Like there is no unrequited love. It's just mismatched.

Brent: Right. Well, Jeff, I think with that we have, uh, exhausted this episode almost. And we have reached that part where we kind of boil this all down and we see if this episode has any of that Star Trek equality we've been talking about now for nearly four seasons there, are there deep moral messages? Is it holding up amerit to society?

Is it giving us hope that things could be better in a future? Is it giving us a roadmap for how to do it? How do we do this? And, and also at the same time, we're looking for how does this do it in a way that only Babylon five could do it and provide us an hour's worth of entertainment? So Jeff, you are gonna do that.

You're gonna clump all of that together and you're gonna rate this show on a scale of zero to five Delta Furies to see how strong the message is and how Babylon five it was delivered. Jeff, how many Delta furies are you giving? Rising Star?

Jeff: Given it five Delta theories, uh, for a lot of reasons. Uh, one, this episode is the payoff and culmination of so many things that we've built in season four and throughout this series. Um, almost at the head of the pack is Humana. We talked about this before, so I'm not gonna spend a lot of time on it, but humanity as the, the, the focus and the, the locus and the, the glue and the bond, the communities that we've built, the power and the strength of diversity.

We've talked about this so many times and what is likely our highest delta and fury rated season so far. Um,

Brent: Do you think so?

Jeff: I think I, I bet it is. I bet it is. I know some people have been tracking those, but we actually had this conversation off Michael a while ago of like, are we being, are we being too generous on the Delta furries?

But I also think like this season's been hammering this stuff home and we got that in this. We got a heavy in the, in the payoff of the Interstellar Alliance. Uh, Jaar spoke so well to it has, has spoken so well to it. Sheridan spoke well to it. His role said that I love Lu Chenko in this episode also, she talked about both sides having sacrificed and lost so much, and that they were fighting for the same thing.

She's not trying to blame anyone. She's not going out for blood or for vengeance. She wants to move forward and she wants to seek justice for the people. That, that we're maliciously doing things wrong. That's not how things go down today. If, if, let's just say, I don't know, hypothetically that there was an insurrection, uh, pointed at the, the United States Government.

Yep. It's the hypothetical situation.

Brent: Could never happen.

Jeff: Never. It would never happen. Especially, yeah. It, it's just not possible. But if hypothetically that happened, the, the

Brent: Well, I mean it did. It did happen once.

Jeff: just once. Oh yeah, yeah. There was one time,

Brent: Literally fought a whole war over it.

Jeff: only one time

Brent: Hmm.

Jeff: ever anything like that happened. But if that had happened, the politicians in power.

Would be pointing fingers and would be laying blame. Chenko wants to heal and move forward. I think it showed so much leadership to come in and not make it an us versus them, but to make it an US situation. We all sacrificed, we all battled. That's hope for the future right there in in this, this newly elected president.

Our strength. Back to the strength piece though, I just think that the Interstellar Alliance, we know that it's gonna last at least 20 years because it comes up in war without end and in war, without end. They talk about the peace that will last a thousand years. Um, and in this we get the added context of it not being an enforced piece, but a created piece.

I think that what this also does, In setting up that Interstellar Alliance based on the community building and the strengths and diversity that humanity brings forward,

is that we can come together without the assumption of hostile intent. We can come together under assumptions of positivity and growth. We can create and foster real agreements, we can share information and we can assume and work towards equity and justice. That's what this United Federation of pla, I mean, this Interstellar Alliance is all about doing and I think that it all happened because of what we've seen over Arch through all of all of this series.

So based on what we saw in the episode and the fact this is the culmination of four full seasons of Babylon five, this is, this is five

Brent: If, if I could add to what you're just saying there, don't forget the exact words that Sheridan said. You mean that we've learned, I've learned a lot of things on Babylon five. Like we are better together. I, I mean, nothing We're better together than a part. Nothing says Star Trek and the Star Trek message.

Like that idea right there, which by the way, that's not unique to Star Trek, that that should be across the board. And that's, that really is the point. You know, we use Star Trek as the gimmick, but it really, it really is the point. This is something that frankly we need to be saying to our leaders in real life, to those people that are in government.

Listen, folks, I, look, I'm gonna tell you this, I know we have a lot of people that listen to this show and every time we talk about this, we always get emails, Hey, you're gonna leave that talk out, or whatever. The show brought it up so,

Jeff: Yeah, it's babble on

Brent: job to, yeah, it's our job to talk about it. Uh, I'm speaking specifically to Americans right now.

Um, I bet depending on whatever country you are in, and I just wanna recognize that over half of our listeners are not here in America. They are international. Um, take this and apply this to your, your country. I bet it probably applies and if it doesn't, please write me, cuz I want to know where you live cuz I might move.

Jeff: What are the Visa requirements?

Brent: exactly. I gotta check on some certifications, but, uh, we might be able to make this work. Um, I don't care if you're a Republican or Democrat. Do you know what makes America so great and what MA has made America work so well is the fact that when you harness both of those and you harness them, the fact that we're better together.

Not that when one party, and this has been, you know, honestly the, the, when, when things go bad, it's when, when the two groups refuse to work 

Jeff: Mm-hmm. 

Brent: That's when it goes bad and they just start sniping at each other. And it's, it's this political maneuvering and it that is what leads to these extremes that we have seen out of both parties and those extreme groups grow and wind up taking over control as opposed to actually being able to come together with your differences, owning your biases for where they are, and being able to dialogue and have that conversation and draw on the strength of each other in order to find the best way to move forward. The problem stands so the problem lies when people stop working together, but the truth is, we are better together than apart. Not, hey, well we're in control right now, so you just sit back and suck it up while we're here in control. Better luck next time and we're gonna change all the laws to make sure that we stay in control.

That's, that's dumb. That is not the way that things work best. And I, I will take this out of politics and I'll put this into business. The Walt Disney Corporation, the Walt Disney Corporation, has always worked best, always ran best when there were two people at the head, somebody who was creative, and somebody who was business minded.

And every time that Disney has been, uh, in control with a single solo person, one of those two pieces have been neglected and things have fallen to the wayside. Michael Eisner, Frank Wells, Walton Roy, the two golden eras, eras of the Disney Corporation. I love Bob Iger. Not even Bob Iger has been as successful as what those guys were able to bring.

Uh, we're better together than apart. Jeff,

Jeff: I remember, oh, go ahead.

Brent: I was gonna say, to say that this is a five star, uh, Delta rating. Honestly, you're right. Everything has led to this moment. Everything we've watched over the last four seasons has led here. Um, I kind of want to just be done.

Jeff: I feel like we kind of are.

Brent: Yeah. Uh, we'll see what happens.

Uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm trepidatious moving forward, but, uh, if this is what we came to, somebody said to us a long time ago, Jeff, when you get to the end, you're gonna find out that Babylon five actually was more Star Trek than Star Trek, and I'm kind of feeling that right now based off of what we saw here.

This is what enterprise should have been in the founding of the Federation is kind of what we just saw right here.

Jeff: It's much better version of it for sure. You know, to your earlier point, I remember about nine years ago, we had this magical moment in the Oregon state legislature. Our house, um, side has 60 seats in

it. And that year for that, those two years, uh, we had 30 Republicans and 30 Democrats. It was a dead heat.

And so every committee was co-chaired. Um, and it was, it was so incredible because there was no noise. The only bills that got heard were bills that were necessary, infrastructure bills, tax things, you know, just important issues that were in front of us. There wasn't politicking that happened because there was, there was nothing to politic because we were in, they were dead even, and so they had to work together.

The Republican chair and the Democrat chair had to agree on what bills were introduced to committee.

Brent: Mm-hmm.

Jeff: It was perfect. It was such a productive session. I say that as a bureaucrat, but even as a, as a citizen and, and, uh, and, and, and a taxpayer like the, it was the most effective I've ever seen a state government run.

And it didn't turn into a stalemate like, oh, it'll be a stalemate. Nothing to move forward. No, no. It kills the noise. And we actually focus on those important things that truly impact people's lives. We came together and now we have to come together. Specifically you, Brent, I had to rate this on Delta series.

You've gotta rank this one. Um, and our top five right now for those keeping. Score number one is into the fire. Two intersections in real time. Three, no surrender, no retreat. Then the long night. And in number five, atonement, Brent, where are you gonna put Rising Star?

Brent: Jeff, remind me what, what atonement was. That was the episode with the, uh, Dalin Dreaming, right?

Jeff: Duco. Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. Fantastic episode Jeff. This is the week that Atonement loses Top five status.

Jeff: wow.

Brent: Um, this was a fantastic episode. Do you know my favorite Star Wars movie?

Jeff: Which one is it?

Brent: Return To No. Return To The Jedi.

Jeff: Really.

Brent: Return To The Jedi.

You know why? Cuz it concludes this, the, the series, everything pushes to that. My favorite of the prequels. Revenge of the Seth. Same reason. Uh, I wish I could say the same thing about Rise of Skywalker.

Jeff: True. That'd

be 

Brent: do you know my favorite Lord of the Rings movie? Return of the King. Why? Because it pulls everything together and does exactly it.

It pays everything off. There is something about paying everything off that I absolutely love. This episode felt like it paid everything off. I have no idea what we're gonna end up with next week. Like you're gonna ask me here in a few minutes and I'm gonna pull something outta the air cuz I, I just don't know where we go from here.

Um, my only question is, was this ending more or less satisfying than the ending of the VLAN shadow war? Is this our new number one or is this our number two?

Jeff: Wow.

Brent: where this episode goes to me. I loved this episode despite all the issues and rightly so that you just brought up. I don't care. Because I'm getting where they're going for it.

Jeff: It's an interesting question because they, in a, in a sense, they both ended the series, right? I mean, they ended with the voiceover and they ended with a, here's what happens, and here's where we are now. It's a fitting, it's a fitting battle to be, to be going

Brent: Mm-hmm. I think I'm gonna bring this one in, and I'm gonna place this at number two. This is our new number two into the fire. Still was. It was so tense. It had such stakes within that episode, and it resolved everything. This episode did not have the stakes or the tension. This episode had all the resolution, but still, I look at this episode and I think of the entire rest of the series, and it all gets poured into this episode, which puts this one up at number two.

This was a great episode. and, and Sheridan's whole thing where he is kicking back, he's got his feet up on the desk. When they walk in, they're like, you know, and then the guy even says, we didn't talk about, the guy even says, where's the, where's the amnesty paper? Because I'm gonna take it back. And he is like, no, you're not.

Jeff: I gave it to the press.

Brent: that's why I got it in writing.

Jeff: Yep.

Brent: Damnit. And then he comes out, uh, captain, I mean, Mr. President. Yeah, you're right. You better call me Mr. President. So, uh, I, but I'm placing this at number two, Jeff.

Jeff: All right. That's it. I'm not gonna argue with you. I can't. It doesn't matter. I would, I would, but I'm not going to. So maybe that'll happen in the season four wrap up. That's

Brent: That's right. That's right. Everything's got a chance.

Jeff: That's it for Rising Star. Here it is, the season four finale, Brent. It's called The Deconstruction of Falling Stars.

It's a lot of words. We're gonna be watching that next week for the first time. We haven't looked at the show description, synopsis, thumbnail, anything. All we know is that it concludes a season that has already concluded. We like to play a game where we predict what's gonna happen in the next episode. So, Brent, what do you think the deconstruction of Falling Stars is gonna be about?

Brent: Okay, Jeff, this is where my knowledge of Babylon five history is failing me. Did they shoot this next episode before, after knowing that they got picked up for the fifth season? Because if they go, if they're going in like, like that changes it that that changes it from, oh, hey, we getting picked up. So now we've gotta change our ending to give us a season five and lead us into season five, or No, no, no.

We actually, like, this was the episode we were going out on. And, uh, this would have served as the series finale.

Jeff: Yeah,

Brent: Um,

Jeff: and I don't know the answer. I don't know if they knew it

Brent: and I'm not sure, I'm not sure the deconstruction of falling Stars.

Jeff: please do not tell us. Please

Brent: you. Yes, yes. We'll figure it out lately. Later. Later. Uh, uh, what, I'll tell you, you know, like this specific question of did they know, I am glad to know after we see episode one of season five.

Jeff: Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. But don't tell us this week. Don't tell us in the comments right now.

Brent: Yeah. And, and all I want to know is yes, they did.

No, they didn't. I, the stories of how things went down, especially if it impacts season five, I don't wanna know. Like, let us find out as we go through. Um, this is me stalling. Trying to think of what, I don't think I've ever taken this long thinking of an episode. Uh, You know what? I think this is, I I was teasing it earlier. I don't remember if we were on mic or off mic. I think this is a clip show. This is, uh, the deconstruction of Falling Stars. I whatever follow stars you wish upon 'em, they bring you good luck. Uh, the, the, it's all the characters. This is a deconstruction of the entire show.

We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap everything up by taking you through from season one all the way through season four, where we've, the journey we've been on so far. So I think this is a clip show that's gonna have clips in it. Jeff

Jeff: Wow. A real clip

Brent: the whole series. I think. I think that's where we're going with us, you know, and it's, it's gonna be that touching, it's like the touching tribute to everything we've seen so far, because the story seems done.

Jeff: It does.

Brent: What about you? What do you think?

Jeff: I have a little bit of a riff on your idea, um, like a clip show, but I'm thinking more, uh, Voyager Living Witness. So we're gonna move ahead a thousand years, you know, or whatever. And we're gonna get the made up history that exists versus like, what really happened. And there's gonna be some mechanism through some first one shenanigans that like, reconciles the story of what brought us here or something.

But it's essentially just gonna be a mechanism to be exactly what you described. Like, let's do a little recap of all the things that happened. My other thought though, and what I think I'm gonna actually make my prediction is did you ever watch, um, the spinoff from the new Battlestar Galactica, uh, called Kaka?

Brent: I watched five or six episodes of it and uh, wanted to go back to it, but I never did.

Jeff: It's definitely worth going back to. It's, it's got such a different feel from Battlestar Galatica, but I, I appreciated what it did. Well, it got canceled in its first se. Spoiler alert, it gets canceled in its first season. And in the season finale they did what I think they're going to do in this next one.

I'm gonna operate from the assumption that they were not picked up yet for a fifth season. And so they're gonna do the kaka thing. Or to be clear, Kaka will have done the Babylon five thing. And that is we're gonna take an episode or a part of an episode and compress all the pieces we weren't able to shove into season four and tell that story somehow.

So like, Hey, here's what we were gonna tell you, um, coming up, but we don't get to cuz we're on a failed network. And we're gonna find out right here next week. Thank you all so much for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you're watching or listening to us. Leave us a rating and a review and, uh, share. Share this show. Click the share button. Send it to

Brent: Hey, Jeff. Jeff.

Jeff: dude, you're, uh, you're early, Brent.

Brent: No, dude. I'm never premature.

Jeff: Well, that's, that's a little bit of a surprise given what I've heard.

Brent: Hey, man, for me, hours can go by before I even start getting to the good parts.

Jeff: Oh, in Valen's name.