The Face of the Enemy

Jeff: Welcome to Babylon 5 for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin and I am the one who was,

Brent: And I'm Brent Allen, and I am the one who will be.

Jeff: and we're watching Babylon 5 for the first time for you, the one who is

Brent: Yes. And those voices you heard at the end of the intro were are babies.

Jeff: Hello Kids.

Brent: mine babies. But the voices you're hearing right now are those of two veteran Star Trek podcasters watching Babylon five for the first time, trying to find what we call Star Trek like messages that are being done in a uniquely Babylon five way.

Jeff: This is a Babylon five podcast, not a Star Trek podcast. And so to keep those references to the appropriate minimum, we play the rule of three. That means each one of us gets up to, and no more than three references to Star Trek per episode. That's it. Three. One of those, no substitutions. Exchanges a refund.

Brent: Hey Jeff, you know what's awesome?

Jeff: that?

Brent: Our friends over at Patreon,

Jeff: They are amazing.

Brent: they are absolutely amazing this week. Sp specifically the people who are commenting on the unedited, uh, Brent Watches video. I didn't check out the comments on yours cuz you have yours. I have mine. But some of the comments from, from those folks, uh, I, I mean, Jeff, we had some big reveals in this episode and people were like, what do you, because I've been saying, how many weeks have I been saying like, I need to know what's going on with Gu Baldi.

And here they just, I mean, they laid it all on the table. It's like, oh my gosh. And we'll talk about that. But the folks over there are awesome. The comments, the conversations that happen over there. You guys think the stuff happening on YouTube is something, uh, if you guys are out there in podcasting, you might not even understand about that.

But there's a whole community, community of people that have gathered around this show over on Patron and it's a whole different deal. There's a, a whole nother level with the Discord folk.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: But anyway, I, I just want to take this moment to encourage folks to go over to Patreon and, uh, check out some of the exclusive content that we have running over there.

And you can even get some behind the scenes more so than just recording the episodes of what's going on here at Babylon five for the first time.

Jeff: And I'll tell you, not this week or next week, the week after that. So I guess that's two weeks from now, we're gonna have some announcements about our people who have subscribed to Patreon. So if you haven't yet, go do that. And then the announcement will apply to you. It'll apply afterwards also,

Brent: it, 

Jeff: uh, get in.

Get 

Brent: it, it'll make, it'll make sense why we're talking about Paton a lot here lately, but, uh, you guys are definitely, if you're not in Paton yet, you'll wanna make sure you go check that out. Um, and honestly, I think it's worth it. It's just good stuff. There's, and it's the people. It's really the people that make it worth it.

Jeff: Yeah. The content's cool, but the community is what's, uh, is come for the content. Stay for the community.

Brent: go. They make me laugh, frankly, Jeff. Absolutely. Like, like I love the folks at YouTube. YouTube's phenomenal. Sometimes it can get a little grading though, just with the various, the open forum, the open nature of it, you know what I mean? Um, but the folks on Paton make me laugh, you know? What else makes people laugh?

Jeff,

Jeff: What's that?

Brent: you and I making predictions, especially when we get them wrong or when we're this close to being spot on. Jeff, this is the part of the, the episode though, where we look back at last week's episode for what our predictions were about this particular week's episode. So last week we predicted what the face of the enemy was gonna be out.

We've now watched it. We know how close or how far apart we were. Jeff, remind the folks out there what you said this episode was supposed to be about. And let's see, just how close you were or how much we laughed at you this whole week.

Jeff: So I thought we were gonna get more on the, you know, the cryo frozen telepath people on the Lida and Franklin trip to Mars. And then I thought that Garabaldi and Sheridan were gonna come face to face, which would activate Garibaldis programming and, uh, He'd do whatever he was programmed, uh, programmed to do based on, based on running into Sheridan?

Brent: Not really.

Jeff: Not really.

Brent: Not really.

Jeff: I got the,

Brent: give you any points for that,

Jeff: I got the, I got the, the cryo telepaths on Mars. like a 10th of a point.

Brent: Okay. I'll give you a 10th just just because I'm feeling generous.

Jeff: I love your

generosity. Thank 

Brent: just wipe your brow and go, woo.

Jeff: was freaking out a little bit. I, I don't, I, I don't know what happens if we get zero points on this, but I don't wanna find out.

Brent: You get fired from the 

Jeff: Oh, okay,

Brent: Effectively. So, but I still need you to come and do all the editing and, and administrative work and the behind the scenes

Jeff: okay. Yeah, that's fair. What did you think?

Brent: Well, I said that, uh, Mr. Eggers, uh, which by the way in my notes, I don't, I don't know why. I know, I know. His name is spelled e d g e R S. It's Edgar.

I get it in my notes. It's Eggers, e g g e r s. I think it's just Autocorrected. Um,

Jeff: why is it autocorrecting things? Eggers, what are you typing?

Brent: no idea.

Jeff: What? Is that

Brent: No idea. Why does Autocorrect do most of what it does anyway, uh, I said Edgar Eggers and his crew will capture Sheridan, uh oh. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Will capture Mr. Sheridan, Sheridan's father, uh, while Garabaldi returns to Sheridan with a message pretending to kind of be his friend, but he's gonna be a complete and total, I said this word, he's gonna be a Judas. And Sheridan is gonna jeopardize the mission by trying to go after his father, and that Sheridan was going to get captured, which will further put the mission at risk, but that's also gonna serve to accelerate the advancement of the liberation fleet heading towards Mars and move that plot along.

Jeff: You nailed it. Binga. Bingo.

Brent: I think so, I think that's, that's about as good as you can get.

Jeff: Is that the, is that the crown? I'm MCing.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's got a little dust. It's been, been, you know, I haven't, I haven't polished it lately, but it's, uh, it's still there, so.

Jeff: It's back where it belongs.

Brent: Mm-hmm. Mm. Well, Jeff, uh, for those are the folks out there who are kind of going, you know what? I don't know that I remember what this episode was really all about.

Watch, don't you take a few moments and remind everybody exactly what happened in this week's episode. Face of the Enemy.

Jeff: The Liberation fleet's continuing its sweep across the colonies in hard fought battles. Sheridan learns that ships are refusing to surrender because they've been told that prisoners are executed and replaced with Minbar Cruz. Luckily, our old Powell Mackey is around to lay that rumor to rest. After he vouches for the more and more earth vessels join the cause, including the Agam.

None. Sheridan's old ship and crew been chasing him down to join forces with him. I'm sure there's nothing fishy going on here at all. Well on the Agam, none garabaldi. He calls Sheridan. You see they captured his dad, and now Garabaldi is setting the trap. Come to Mars and hey buddy, it's cool. We'll save your dad.

We'll do it together again. Nothing fishy going on here. Nothing at all on Mars. Lead it in. Franklin Show up with all the Popsicle tapes. Answers that question from last week, right? Are they gonna come together or with all the telepaths we see, number one, stay true to her word as she rips Franklin up and down for bringing Lida with him.

This apparently really is how she treats all her former lovers. She tells him that Cyco has unleashed the black. She tells 'em that Cyco has unleashed the bloodhound gang and the roof. The roof. The roof is on fire. These bloodhound units take anyone suspected of being a part of the resistance and scan them so hard.

Their brains tend to blow up even just a little bit. Then shares with Franklin. This isn't new for Cyco. This one time at band camp when she was interning as a cycop, someone was killing Telepaths and they went all bloodhound on the person leaving them in a room in an institution with constant, wide awake nightmares, huh?

Who would've ever guessed that Cyco could do sketchy stuff like this? Well, William Edgars sure has. After Garabaldi kidnapped Sheridan at a bar on Mars, Edgars tells him the whole story. You can listen to my comments from last week's episode on this, but basically, Just like I said, he's created both the virus and the cure, and he's gonna use it to control cyco. Why roll with evolution when you can cheat your way around it?

After he learns all this, Garabaldi takes a novelty joke sized molar out of his mouth and pops a transmitter out of it. After Lee tells him that she heard and knows everything, she takes off and Buster meets with him on a train alone and he spills all the beans. Totally explains how and why he programmed Garabaldi.

He knew there was some threat out there to Telepaths and he wanted Gu Baldi to get to the bottom of it, and he sure did. After playing it, had to leave him dead brain dead or recovered. Bester lets him go free. Releasing the evil personality and letting the real garabaldi out The garabaldi that's been watching all of this happen, powerless to stop it.

He heads back to the Edgars estate to find him and the Rammstein guy Wade murdered the virus and the crew are all gone and there's no sign of lease. Sheridan's been given to Clark by Edgars and i s n is quick to report that the civil unrest is over. Clark declares a day. Clark declares a day of celebration and rest as poor.

Captain Sheridan is well treated at a facility. Now I don't know about you, but getting punched and kicked in the face while shackled in lying on the floor doesn't really match up with my vision of being treated well. But I mean, hey, maybe they do things differently in the future. Garabaldi reaches out to Ivanova, but she refuses the call.

I s N is reporting that he's the one that brought Sheridan in. She tells Marcus not to answer his calls and if he steps foot on Babylon five, he's to be shot dead. On arrival, Brent. What did you think of the telepath prob, the telepath problem and everything that happened in the face of the enemy?

Brent: Okay. I just have to ask you, uh, You just paused there. When you were saying Telepath problem, did you mean to pause there on purpose? Was there something you were trying to say?

Jeff: There's there. There might have been something behind what I was saying there that Edgars might have been saying maybe.

Yeah, 

Brent: gotcha. Um, what did I think this was an interesting episode, like very interesting. It still didn't have its own beginning, middle, and end, but we did get an end to the Garabaldi brainwashing storyline and I very much appreciated that entire scene. It was exactly what I needed to know about what happened. I buy every single bit of it.

It makes all the sense in the world. I appreciated the fact that they were able to go back all the way to when Garabaldi got captured. Actually even a little bit before then, and explained what happened to him, how he was intercepted by ster. They took him to Mars. He wasn't necessarily on the ship the whole time.

They did what they did. Here's why they did it. They sent him back out. The fact that he didn't, he didn't, uh, they didn't, they just used his own stuff and then hyped it up, you know, like, wow, that's, that's, that's what they explained. The mirror thing and the whole, you know, programming thing, what that was all about.

And, and then explained everything of where he's been. Loved it, loved it, loved it. I even loved Buster's, um, questioning of like, what should I do with you now? I could leave you like this, or I could erase your memory, or I could let you remember everything. like, and he really kind of tossed it around in his head of what he wanted to do.

And eventually he, he said, I'm all like Gar Baldy. Which might have actually been the worst, uh, the worst of them. Like, I'm gonna let you know what you did.

Jeff: Yeah, I feel like it was, that's torturous for Garabaldi, but it also kind of says to Garabaldi, I actually don't see you. Like, you're not a threat. There's nothing of value to you anymore. So go ahead, just be you again, I don't care.

Brent: exactly. Exactly. Um, so I liked this episode. I enjoyed it very much. Interesting is probably my best word to describe it. is another one I will watch every single time I do a rewatch. I, if I'm folding laundry and I come across this on tv, I'm not changing the channel during the commercial. I want to watch this episode. I can't even say that this episode's gonna make more sense when we see what the other episodes are, to put it in context because frankly it made perfect sense

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: again. But it also didn't necessarily do the beginning, middle end. Like it just, it felt very, here's this piece from the middle. A lot of plot, plot, plot, but I really, really liked it.

Jeff, how about you?

Jeff: I'm super satisfied. Just like you with the explanation of all this stuff that happened to Garrett Baldy. It was good. Well done. Everything was great. Aside from that, nothing was a huge surprise. In this, you know, and, and, and to be really clear, we've talked about this before, that's not a, that's not a slight on the episode.

If anything, it really holds up the, the high caliber of writing. But I think, I think what I did feel in this one is it happened so fast. I feel like, I feel like there's, there's, we missed an episode or, or something. Not, not in the content that was there, but in, in, in the pacing and how quickly, like, we literally went from, Hey, you know what?

I think, uh, I think we should go after his dad to, oh, hey, we have Sheridan. Like, it was that fast where, I don't know, and it, and maybe that's fine, like it makes narrative sense, but it just felt super compressed. Um, if nothing else. But, uh, I, I, the, the, the only like complaint I have on this, Episode. And to be clear, I really like this episode.

I, I enjoyed this one. I was fascinated with what was going on. There were moments that kind of made you stop and go, oh, wow. Oh, interesting. Really make you think. But, uh, Brett, I think my hopes for an anti-hero bester are, are dead. Like

Brent: I think so.

Jeff: he's just a villain.

Brent: I think so.

Jeff: I think so.

Brent: I don't think so.

Jeff: I mean, he's a, he, he might be a hero to Telepaths, but here's the thing.

He's got the virus and the cure. Is he gonna use it? Now? I, I could totally see Beter doing the exact same thing that Edgars was gonna do,

Brent: Oh, you think so?

Jeff: that. Oh yeah. Oh,

Brent: Just reverse it on the, on the normals.

Jeff: no, he, no, he uses it on the Telepaths.

Brent: Oh, you think he's gonna use it on his own people to control him? Yeah. I don't think that at all. I don't, I do not believe that for one second. No, no. Be best's Too much of a, too much of his own, of, of a patriot, so to speak. You know, he, he's just to use a longo's term, he's just too much of a patriot for his own people. I don't think he would even come close. Now, here's who I do think he would use it on. If it wasn't a hundred percent contagious, rogue telepaths, a hundred percent, I think he'd use it on them.

But for everybody else, nah, I don't think he'd use it at 

Jeff: I don't know. I, I just, I could see literally using it and just saying, Hey, look, if you're playing by the rules and everything's fine, you'll be good. Cause you'll show up every two weeks. You'll get your, you know, your, your booster or whatever, and, and you'll be fine. If you don't play by the rules, you die.

I hope that's not what happens, but I could see it happening. But no, this was, this was a fantastic episode. I loved it.

But I think right out of the gate,

Brent: Mm-hmm.

Jeff: what was Sheridan thinking?

Brent: About going after his dad.

Jeff: You know, going after his dad, but even earlier than that, going on the egg emon, just like they're in the middle of a battle and they fly through the jump gate at the last minute and they're like, Hey, come on over. We're excited to see it. And he's like, Hey, that seems like a really good idea.

They thought whole scene when the c o was walking behind him, I just kept waiting for like him to get into a corner and then them to attack him and be in on the whole thing. It never happened, but I sure felt like it was gonna happen.

Brent: As soon as I saw the aga and they're like, he's like, I'm going over there. I was like, Nope,

Jeff: Yeah. Don't do it, dude.

Brent: Nope. Not a good idea. Not a good idea. Danger, danger, danger. Will Robinson, we've been trying to catch up to you, captain. Yeah, sure you have.

Jeff: We have special gear that we've upgraded specifically to find you and

Brent: yeah, yeah. Cuz we're all still your guys. Hey, how long has it been since Sheridan's been in command of the AGA nine.

Jeff: Three, three years,

Brent: Okay. How many of the crew then are still the same and haven't been switched out due to crew rotation?

Jeff: right? Yeah. It's so few like it's gotta be a whole new group.

Brent: some of the command staff, you know, uh, which I guess is probably who you're really thinking about, I guess, when you're a captain, right? Um, I don't know. Jeff, you were on a ship. You, you know that better than I do?

Jeff: There were 126 of us on it. It was a submarine. It's a very different, we knew each other by our first names. Everybody did like, it was a submarine's, a very different culture. But yeah, so the thought that I had cuz, and we'll talk about it when we dive into the Garib, all these stuff, but, uh, he made the comment to Edgar, he is just like, when he says, Hey, go get Sheridan.

He is like, yeah, that's fine. I think the last guy who did this got 30 pieces of silver and then when Sheridan just willingly went over, I got some strong passing through Gethsemane vibes of just like I. Sheridan know what's going to happen, and these are necessary steps that he has to go through, even though he doesn't want to.

Brent: Sheridan, Shirley sure seems to know something is coming.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: He understands something on a different level, like this whole thing with the, the, what do you call 'em? The popsicle telepaths

Jeff: Popsicle, tes

Brent: to Popsicle teps, uh, 

Jeff: deeps tickles 

Brent: about that. I, I still have no idea what he's doing with those things and, and where he, why he is so adamant and, and really pressing to get those guys up and running.

I, I, I haven't fathom that one yet, but you're right, he certainly seems to be operating in a little bit of a different head space than everybody else.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: Well, you mentioned Gar Baldi and, and calling himself Judas. Let's try Garabaldi story through this, if you don't mind. Um,

so Garabaldi goes through and he does what he needs to do. He slaps that thing on his hand, right. Calls him 

Jeff: gathering feelings right there.

Brent: right. Um, called him over and was like, Hey, come, you know, come see me. We'll do this. And he acting all sketchy and everything. And he is like, well, what do you need me to do? Nothing.

You've done it now, you know? I was like, really? Like,

Jeff: scene, that scene had very, uh, whatever happened to Mr. Garabaldi vibes with Kar and Marcus in the bar,

Brent: Yep. It, I hated the fact that he slapped the thing on his hand, but it honestly seemed to be the, the most practical because what would, what would we have seen in any other show? A hypo spray or some sort of needle to the neck.

Jeff: maybe a, a stunt.

Brent: yeah, some sort of a, some sort of a, of a stunner of a, of a tranquilizer, something of that nature.

I'm gonna slap this thing on the back of your hand. Now. He called it a tran

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: tranquilizer. I would've thought Sheridan would've passed out. No, it was pretty much just drugs. He just got high, real fast.

Jeff: dude, he's doing that big roadhouse style fight and the whole time I'm just like, because like there are, there are people who have never like, well, like, I don't know, Ambien, right? Or whatever sleeping drug there is people who've never taken it before who like licked the pill and they're out. And then the people who have kind of a, a little more of a habit and they're like, yo, I took one and I'm gonna go drive and operate heavy machinery cuz I'm fine.

It does nothing. And so like Sheridan's in this full on, like him against 40 guy Patrick Swayze fight. And I'm just like, this dude has done a lot of drugs. He's like,

Brent: So I, so I wrote that down. I was like, you know, Sheridan for being all trained out and being one on four, he's holding his own pretty dang well, even though he's getting his butt beat, he's still getting in some really good looks of his own. Although, Jeff, I, I have to tell you, all right, just for Brent's own history, I have never been much of a drinker. I, have, I have nev, I have smoked pot one time in my 

Jeff: Oh, wow. 

Brent: Once, like that's, that is the limit of the drug use for Brent

Jeff: you running for office here? Is this

Brent: No, I'm not. No I'm not. But uh, cuz I, I want to comment on what you said about how many drugs Sheridan is done in the course of his life. Although I would 100% believe Sheridan has done a lot more than what I have.

Over the course of his life as a character, not even necessarily Bruce Box Litner, uh, although I guess Bruce May, I don't know. Anyway, um,

Jeff: hung out with the Dai lama, right? Like he's, he's done some stuff, so yeah.

Brent: Uh, Jeff, have you ever had to have any sort of, uh, let's just say a medical procedure where you are awake for the procedure, but they give you some sort of a medicine and they say, you're not even gonna remember this at the, it's, it's, this is gonna chill you out.

We'll do the procedure. You'll be awake, but you're not even gonna remember it.

Jeff: Yep. Yeah. People of my age have to do that every couple years,

Brent: Yeah, I'm not quite there yet, but I've, I've had a different, uh, procedure where they did that to me, that medicine doesn't work for me.

Jeff: Really?

Brent: I, I am. That meant like I had that thing. I like it chilled me out for a moment. But as this was when they were going, uh, they were putting a camera down my throat, uh, as soon as they stuck that thing down my throat, dude, I felt like I had a, a snake this big around going down my gullet and I started fighting and I, it was lucky the nurse that they had was a big old dude, you know, he was holding me down.

It was good cause it was, I was, I was, and they, they go in and they did what they need do and came out real good. But I remember every single second of that to the point where I now have to tell people when I go in, that stuff doesn't work on me or give me something else or just knock me out. Cause I can be knocked out.

I can go under anesthesia. That's cool. But so I just say that to say maybe Sheridan hasn't done a lot of drugs. Maybe he's just a little naturally resistant to it.

Jeff: Yeah. Maybe he's got some neurodiversity where those things that impact your brain chemistry kind of flip things around a little bit and he's like, oh, this is supposed to knock you out. And he's like, no, this actually acts like pcp. Like let me go lift up some cars. I

Brent: dude, because I don't know who was standing in the booth and all of a sudden flipped on the strobe light while a fight was going on in the bar and nobody did a thing about it besides, Hey, let's watch this fight in a strobe light. Let's go.

Jeff: just makes you wonder how many times fights break out there. We're like, they literally have a process. They're just like, oh, fight smoke machine and strobe.

Brent: and band, keep playing. Keep playing. By the way, speaking of the band, I don't know what the heck kind of music that was that they were playing when he was walking in, but that was infinitely better than whatever that crap was that that girl was singing in the walkabout

Jeff: Right. Yeah.

Brent: You know, in the jazz bar or whatever.

Infinitely better. I was kind of into that, into that song too.

Jeff: Were you really?

Brent: I realized I, I wanted to go back and re-watch it and kind of like, I wanted to hear the words and see if it matched up with what Sheridan was going through. I never did though. Hey, if you guys out there are listening comment and let us know if that that goes back, because I promise I'm not probably gonna go back and watch that in this moment.

I'm, we're moving on to the next episode after this, so Sheridan gets, gets, uh, gets captured

Jeff: Yeah. I liked the strobe light scene. Like I liked the, I liked the artistry of it, you know, and like how they kind of cut those still pictures in. And it was also a really great, uh, filming technique for like, there was a point where big wide shot. You know, is wet and there's the smoke and the whatever, a wide shot of a guy just like Sheridan's on all fours.

And a guy kicks him, you know, uh, you know, shin up into his face. And he went where like clearly he was two or three feet away from Bruce Box Lightner when they filmed it. But with the strobe, when the light totally worked. Like it was just a,

i I love that scene. 

Brent: there was, one punch that Bruce threw on one of those guys. He clearly was like a foot in front of his face when he was going across him, but it looked so good.

Jeff: Yeah. Just that chuck of the, of the strobe.

Brent: yeah, the, the dude, uh, the dude responded fantastic. It was, it just, I think the camera angle was off just a little bit before, I mean, God for mid nineties tv.

It's

Jeff: was great looking stuff. That was

Brent: phenomenal. I mean, it's still held up. It it, you know, if you don't have a trained eye, I guess, I guess you'd be

Jeff: It went on, it, it, it almost felt too long, but also like I never lost interest in the fight. Like it kept my attention the

Brent: Right,

Jeff: Yeah. It was really well done.

Brent: right. So Sheridan got captured. He had to like, that's, that's, they were telegraphing every bit as soon as they got his dad. Yes, of course Sheridan's getting captured and of course it's gonna be garabaldi. Let's bring this back to Gu Baldi. Um, He does what he does, he goes back to, uh, to Edgar

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: and gets the full story. We see the really weird hand print reader device, which eh, okay, fine.

Jeff: But you know what I liked about it though? When dude went up and used it, he actually like, cuz they're like, like little yellow finger point on there and his fingers actually went on them. Like the, the actor actually used the tech.

It wasn't like 

Brent: like instead of a palm scan, it was like, it was, he had to scan all five fingerprints at the same time or something like that. Yeah, yeah. It was very, honestly, Jeff, it was very boggy.

Jeff: it really was, wasn't it?

Brent: Very boge. Yeah. Uh, but he opens up a safe and he's got two vials of the virus and two vials of the cure and is basically like, Jeff, I was so mad in this moment.

You know why I was so mad in this moment?

Jeff: Because I knew this was what he was

Brent: Because you were right. Cuz you were absolutely right. I wasn't really that mad, but I was like, oh, Jeff was right, that this is, this is a business scheme. Like yeah, he can sell it however he wants, but at the end of the day, this is a business scheme for him. Oh, and then, oh, go ahead.

Jeff: I'll say, what a great way to create a captive market, not only create a captive market, but limitless political control.

Brent: Right, right. and then Wade is sitting there on the couch and he says, he says, uh, I don't know the exact line, but uh, I don't know if you caught this at all, but he said, uh, uh, homo Sapien versus Homo Superior talking about the Telepaths. And I sat there and I went, homo Superior. Isn't that the term that's used in X-Men to describe the mutants?

Jeff: It sure is.

Brent: Didn't JMS write a bunch of comic books? Did he ever write X-Men? I don't know if he did or not, but still.

Jeff: he ever did any

Marvel 

Brent: he ever write Marvel?

Jeff: I, I don't think so.

Brent: No, he didn't do Spider-Man. Are you sure he didn't do Spider-Man?

Jeff: he might have done some people are, people are lit, are literally heads blowing up

Brent: Oh, they're, oh, they're, oh, we're getting so many comments right now. So many. He wrote,

Jeff: Cool. Hey, you know what we tell you so often. Don't tell us whatever. Please. I would, I would, I would love a list of stuff that he's written.

Brent: yeah. Oh, it'd be great. It'd be

Jeff: I know that he was on Shira. I know he did stuff there. We've talked about that before. He and Larry Delio great. But yeah.

Brent: But I know he wrote comic books, which just means he's read comic books, which just means he should be familiar with that phrase. I don't know that X-men owns the term Homo Superior, you know, but I love that phrase. I love that they used it cuz it was just, you know, the shout out to the phrase X-Men, um, to describe Mutants and 

Jeff: But it was, it was a lot of the X-Men storyline or the X-Men film storyline. I, I hesitate to call those films, uh, X-Men movies. The, the storyline there of like, Hey, they're mutants and they're go, we have to protect ourselves against these mutants. And that was a part of the comics as well. But it was really that storyline where they're like, well, yeah, we're not gonna make more mutants to fight the mutants.

We're going to, we're gonna kill the mutants.

Brent: You know, here's the thing, I, I gotta be honest, um, the majority of my knowledge of X-Men is not from the comics and it's not from the movies. You know what it's from? It's from the mid nineties X-Men, the animated series 

Jeff: a great 

Brent: I own that series. It is fu There has been no X-Men series since then that I think is anywhere near as good as that one.

And it was phenomenal. But that was the storyline that they, they really tracked through most of it. So in my head, that really is the X-Men like. That's the majority of their story is,

Jeff: It's, there's a lot of the classic X-Men. In fact, for like in the eighties and nineties, they had a run of comic books called Classic X-Men, which were the old ones. But like that, uh, animated series was Wolverine with the Blue, not Wolverine, with the Brown. And if you're a Wolverine person, you're tracking with me.

And yeah, that was a lot of it was just like, Hey, we're doing all these great things to save humanity, but humanity hates us.

That's how Beter feels, right? We're doing all these things to save humanity. Humanity is my business.

Brent: Humanity is my business. Oh, he, he, but he clearly, he, I, I think ster, I think ster fully understands the idea that evolution is happening and that telepaths are the next,

Jeff: So

Brent: piece of that, or a step along that next wear

Jeff: I would buy that if telepathy psychic abilities or whatever we're gonna call it, uh, wasn't introduced by the volans. Like it's, it's literal genetic engineering. It's not natural evolution.

Brent: Was it,

Jeff: Yeah. The Vons gave the humans telepathy. They, they seeded that so that they'd be able to fight the shadows.

Cuz you remember how important it was to have telepaths to fight the shadows. Brent, I mean, that was a key part of the victory that they, that they, oh wait, they didn't use them at all. Nevermind. But they did the lon seeded telepathy into humanity.

Brent: I'm sorry. I don't remember that specifically. It sounds right and I'm gonna go with you. Oh one who was, um, I definitely know that, sorry. I definitely know that, um, the, the Telepaths were a big, uh, Abomination to the shadows, I guess, that they could hurt the shadows. Um, but I don't know that I heard that the volans seeded it for that purpose.

Uh, so yeah. Okay, I'll go with you on that.

Jeff: Yeah, they did. Because what ended up happening, it came out, I

Brent: Is that, I'm sorry, what? Here's what I remember. All the races had tele, had telepathy as a part of their, as a part of their deal, and they just went and wiped it out in the narn,

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: the shadows did, which is why they don't really have telepaths in the narn anymore.

Jeff: Yeah, so they, they eliminated that from the narn. They added it to the humans, the Volo. So the shadows eliminated it from the nans. The volans added it to the humans.

Brent: Did the lon seat it to everybody or just to the humans?

Jeff: was the question. I think we had a little bit of that conversation when it came up. Was like, was that just a human thing or was it something they did for everyone?

It's just like we reached that point of development.

Brent: that's where I sit back and I say, uh, that feels like something. I just don't remember the specifics of it. That's all.

Jeff: Well, I think the fact that the, that whole telepath being the superpower against shadows, dying and being, being absolutely nothing probably explains why it doesn't, doesn't resonate directly for you.

Brent: That's fair. Uh, so yeah, Edgars has his whole big plan. Um, and then he says, uh, he's something you did earlier. Edgars pauses while he talks about the tele the telepath problem. What happened with Edgars in Telepaths? Why did he pause there? What was that all about?

Jeff: So my thought was, um, back around 1939, there was a particular world leader who talked about the Jewish problem.

Brent: Hmm.

Jeff: And I think this was a direct, there's a lot of direct ties to Hitler and Nazim to, to Edgars through these last couple episodes with him.

Brent: What's interesting and I, I had that thought. What's interesting is the guy who plays Edgar, did you catch his name?

Jeff: Uhuh.

Brent: It's like, it's like, it, it's one of the most Jewish sounding names you could ever

Jeff: Well, he's, uh, I mean, you know, from an ethnic standpoint, he's pretty clearly a Jewish man.

Brent: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, it's just, it it interesting him playing that spot, you know? Um, that's, that's not what I had though. And again, this is pure conjecture. I have no clue what exactly it sounded to me like something happened with a telepath. So not necessarily a reference to that, what you were talking about, but maybe like a sister or a mother or a previous wife.

Maybe was a telepath. And that this whole thing for Eggers is not just business, is not just pride in your own race, but it's personal. Has, there's a personal thing that's happened to him in his past that that somehow involved a telepath probably really, really close to him. That's my thought.

Jeff: I could see that make a lot of sense. It would line up with the Babylon five way of delivering a message.

Brent: we'll see if they dropped that, that thread

Jeff: They never drop threats ever.

Brent: ever. And so Garabaldi then goes off, he's in the, he doesn't like it. He's in the, the, the, the little ship, um, lease comes to him and is like, yo didn't know. And Garabaldi is not talking. She gets up and he just tells her to leave. She gets up to go. And here comes the moment.

I've already talked about it a little bit earlier, but Ster comes in and just lays it all out.

Jeff: But what I think is important there too is from the minute he gets on that train, the minute Garabaldi gets on that train, he's sitting there and he's dead, staring like he is just staring and Lee is freaking out and you know just, oh my gosh, you gotta do something. I heard everything. You have to do something.

He's just like, go home Lee. And then he just stares, fester, comes and sits. He barely even blinks and he is just dead.

Brent: Yep. So three quick notes about this whole situation. I, I'm not gonna comment on what they said because it just, we said it, it all tracks its good stuff. They said this line fester, said this line. We were looking for Sheridan, but we knew that only one of three people could replace him. Ivanova, Dalen or you? What do you mean by replace Sheridan? What are we talking about here?

Jeff: The exact same question, right? And, and, and what I felt like, and, and if this is true, it really makes me question best's relationship with the shadows. Like how much was going on there? Because what we know of Sheridan is he's the one, the one who will be right. And so, He needed to go do these things with the shadows and on Zaha Doom, he needed to die.

He needed to come back and do all this stuff. Does that mean then that Baster knows that Dalen could also be the one who will be Ivanova, could be the one who will be in Garabaldi, could be the one who,

Brent: exactly.

Jeff: what I got out of it.

Brent: I, I mean, the only other thing I can think is if something happens to Sheridan that either Dylan Ivanova or Garabaldi could be in charge of the resistance

Jeff: No,

Brent: and the fleet, but that doesn't, that doesn't. That doesn't speak to why I'm gonna get him to go in and embed himself with Eggers.

Jeff: yeah. It doesn't get to why Justin would be saying that. Right. The scene was Justin with the shadows saying his stuff. You know, any, they'll just, someone will just replace you. He doesn't care about the resistance, you know, against Earth Force. And, and it sounded like what they wanted to do was flip.

Garabaldi, right? So you've got your light side here with Sheridan. Make Garabaldi your dark side, and then have him assume the role as the sif and go through then and win for the shadows. Where Sheridan was gonna go in and the plan was for him to win for the boons, but Boons had to go and screw that up.

Brent: I, but that's where I sit back. I don't, I don't know that ster was that in with the shadows? Because Ster was pissed at the shadows by this point. 

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. 

Brent: his girl. So he wasn't about to go through any of that. Um, This whole replacing him thing. It, it just, it bothers me because if the point was to get to Eggers to find out what he was doing and find out that information, Garabaldi is the best person out of all of anyway, because Eggers is married to Garibaldis old girl.

Jeff: Well, I don't, I don't think the point was ever to get to Edgars. I don't think that he, it wasn't a, uh, best or it was just about the conspiracy. There's somebody out there trying to do something to Telepaths and Garabaldi got all the tools to go figure that

Brent: figure out who it's, cause they didn't know that it was Edgar at that point.

Jeff: Yeah. He had mentioned, he's like,

Brent: Yep,

Jeff: he said, Hey, so we turned this stuff up on you.

We tried to make you more angsty. Whatever. You did the unexpected. You resigned your position. That just put you in an even better position to then do this and like it was all this great surprise that worked out really great.

Brent: yep, yep.

Jeff: Yeah. The only piece in the whole explanation, like you said, is just that whole replace him thing

Brent: Yeah.

Jeff: and, and I feel like they glossed over that in a big way in the explanation.

And so maybe we're just supposed to gloss over that too and be like, oh, he could have been somebody important. I get Thelen thing. Right. Cuz it was Sheridan and Dalen. The Vons and the shadows used in that. I even get the yvanova thing cuz I was like, There shouldn't Belen there. It should be yvanova, you know, with all the, the relationship stuff that she had with the shadows, the connections there.

But I get it. I get Dylan, I get Ivanova, Garabaldi fitting in. Is he telepath? Like cuz he got latent thing. I don't know. I don't know. It didn't fit that great. But also, eh,

Brent: So I picked up on this, do you remember, what was it, last episode? I think it was last episode. Eggers is talking to Mr. Garabaldi and he says, here's what's the most dangerous thing about Telepaths. Do you remember what he said? What's the thing that wins the war?

Jeff: about information. Right?

Brent: And they can get the, the telepaths can get information

Jeff: they can pass it with no trace or anything

Brent: But that's the whole piece is, is telepaths are dangerous because of how they can get information. Ster gets to the end of this whole thing and he says, I've got what I want from you, Mr. Gta. Baldy. What was it that Ster wanted from Gu? Baldy

Jeff: information.

Brent: information.

That's exactly what ster got. The ERs was like, this is the thing. I don't know if anybody else made that connection. I dunno if that seemed neat to anybody else, or big to anybody else. But I was like, like, this is exactly what Edgar is talking about. Like what they're, what they're capable of doing. Um, and the last note that I have on this whole piece with Gu Baldi, he goes back, he finds Edgar is dead, Wade's dead lease.

Who knows where she is? Place is torn up. He does whatever. And at the end of the whole thing, Garabaldi has blood on his hands.

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: Blood on his hands. How responsible is Garib Baldi for this? How much does, does Garabaldi figuratively have blood on his hands as much as he has it on his hands? Literally.

Jeff: Again, this really rang back to passing through Gethsemane for me, right? Where they had to ask that question of, uh, I don't know of Suitor, can't remember what his name is. Brother Edward. Brother Edward of I is, is he still Chucky? Right? Is he still the murderer or is because, you know, are you responsible for the thing that you did that you are no longer aware or have agency of doing?

What kind of culpability does Garib bald have? Especially considering they didn't necessarily program him to do these things. They just ramped up pieces of his personality and then gave him programming to learn stuff shut down and deliver the message through a novelty sized tooth.

Brent: Dude, when he pulled that tooth out of his mouth, That was a clean pull on that tooth. Did you see how long those roots were? That was a clean pull of a tooth. I was like, dang.

Jeff: That pulled me outta the episode a little bit. I

Brent: well, it was really big. Like a full grown tooth is not that big for a

Jeff: maybe out of like an elephant.

Brent: Maybe Andre's a giant.

Jeff: Yeah, I could see that.

Brent: Yeah. But no, not a, not a human, not,

Jeff: no, I thought that was a great point. The blood on his hands. Is it his hands? Is it his blood? Who, where'd it come from? What's the culpability on that? And then Avanov at the end, just, you know, if he shows up, you kill him. Period. I'm serious.

Brent: Yeah. And now we have the question, and this is, this is great narrative storytelling. How is Gu Baldi going to be able to redeem himself? How is he gonna be able to work his way back into his friends because he has to like, like this is still storytelling. Like we've, we've got to get garabaldi back into all of this.

He's not gonna get shot on site, or if he does, he's not gonna die.

Jeff: right. Well, he is been shot before. You know, he can take, he can take a PPG hit. We

Brent: Right, right. Oh, we just gotta go get that machine out of, uh, out outta storage, I

Jeff: Yeah, it's still around.

Brent: Yeah. Um, okay. So outside of, outside of Sheridan getting jacked and, and Gar Baldy, I, I have a couple other just gr whatever notes, but I don't need to go through those. I, what do you got, Jeff?

Jeff: I think just the, the, the little storytelling, the exposition piece between Lida and Franklin on how, uh, you know, Li's experience when she was a pup, we knew that she interned at the pups and then she ended that early. Never really found out why. We found out why

Brent: Yeah.

Jeff: as a gross story, but not shocking and like it's on brand for what we know as Cy Cor, I found it interesting.

Uh, two things I found interesting in that is that right to Franklin's face, she called him a mundane.

Brent: I have that as a note. Um, you know, I've talked before about how they, they just call people normals. And how that can be like, that actually to, to me, is more derogatory towards telepaths because it means you're not normal,

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: but to turn around and call you a mundane, like that's a new term. We haven't heard that one before, have we?

Jeff: No. And so offhanded just like she's just saying it like, this is, this is what you are.

Brent: Now that sounds like a derogatory term, you know?

Jeff: Right. You cannot call, you can't call me. That, that is, that is our word.

Brent: We

Jeff: And then, uh, she called it, I think I what this, this I think is gonna be the future in Babylon. Five is the, we're gonna have the telepath war, right? The, the Great

Brent: had another war. Is that what you're telling me? There's another, we had the Na Sonari war. We had the freaking lon shadows. Now we've got the Earth war. We got a more war.

Jeff: I think so, because she said Someday there's gonna be a war between Telepaths and the Mundanes. I just hope I'm not here for it. Well, hopefully you die before that time cuz you don't mention that and then not have the war. And if you die afterwards, naturally Bester gets your body, so maybe everybody will

Brent: maybe that'll be at the dawn of the fourth age of

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. The the telepath piece. One thing, uh, to shift over to Ivan of a really quick, she said a thing that I thought was really cool when, uh, you know, we find out Sheridan's captured, everything's falling south, and Marcus is like, what are we gonna do? She's like, we're gonna keep going. Uh, Sheridan once told me the person is expendable.

The job is not. That's great.

Brent: Yep. Love it. Well, Jeff, I think with that then we have reached the part of the show where it's time to boil it all down and see if this episode has any of those deep moral messages. Is it holding up a mirror to society, giving us hope that we could be better in the future someday? And at the same time, how much is it doing that message in a uniquely Babylon five way.

Jeff, it's your week, my friend. It is your job To dule this out. You're gonna rate this episode on the scale of zero to five combined Deltas and Star Furies Delta Fury. Zero to five of them onto how strong the message is and how Babylon five it was delivered. Jeff, what do you got for this episode?

Jeff: Well, I really wanted to talk about that line of Ava dropped, you know, the, the person is expendable. The job is not, but that's not a, it's not a Star Trek message. It's a leadership message. Talk about it a couple times in the Star Fleet Leadership Academy. Right? It's just, here's, here's, I'll give you the, the, the long and the

Brent: That's a great future episode for Starkville Leadership Academy.

Jeff: Well, it is, and I didn't look up which one I talk about it in, but I've talked about it in a handful. And I have some pretty, um, harrowing stories about, uh, people that I've worked with and bad things have happened to them because they decided to live for the job. And when they lived for the job, they, they died.

And one person I worked with who I tremendous respect for, died on the job. Um, and literally, uh, myself and the other person that were her deputies, we, we mourned, we had about six and a half hours of mourning. And then we went into a room and figured out how to keep business moving forward. And then we were just back to work like this incredible individual lost her life.

And we blinked for six, six hours and it's sick. Just know that your company doesn't care about you. Your boss might care about you. You know, people might, your company doesn't, don't kill yourself for your company. I also really wanted to talk about, uh, the concept of forgiveness, right? As Garabaldi works through what happened, but we're not there yet.

That's gonna happen later. Um, I wanna talk about Sheridan, assuming the best from everybody on the egg, Amnon from Garabaldi, and how when you assume the best from people, good things happened. But that's not what happened either. Um, heck, we, I I almost wanted to talk about the natural, like what is natural evolution of a species and how do we embrace those changes that occur in people instead of fighting them in suppressing them?

But that's not really what we did. This isn't what natural evolution. Brian, I'm gonna do a thing I don't think I've done in a very long time. This was a plot full episode that was fantastic, but there really wasn't a message in this one. I'm gonna give this one

Brent: Oh, oh. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Let me

Jeff: you have something?

Brent: let me stump. Sometimes a Star Trek presents a message that is not in the story, it's not in the dialogue, but it is in the casting and where it places people and how it just treats people and doesn't comment on anything. It's just they're there. This is how it is.

You've never seen this before, but this is totally normal in the future, in this episode, and I'm, I don't, I don't know where I would rank this. Okay. However, here's what we got. This is 1997. Yes, captain Benjamin Cisco exists on television. And has he been made captain by this point? Maybe he just made captain at this point, right?

Jeff: a little bit. I think a little while ago. Cause I think we

Brent: What was the beginning of season was the end of season 

Jeff: mm-hmm. 

Brent: and this is 97.

That started in what? 92. So maybe a season ago. It's not been that long. Right. That's it. Captain bin, Cisco, black captain, lead of a show. Not even really Well, yes, he's the lead. Um, we have seen black captains before. We saw one on, um, uh, next Generation, which is a female black captain. Actually, we haven't seen that.

However, in this show, there was a black man who was a captain of a ship that he didn't even have to earn the captain seat. He was just the captain seat. Not only was he a captain, He was a person who was well respected among his colleagues and his peers. He's a straight shooter. You don't know him, but you know me. He is the, he is the, the glute, he is the trustworthy one. That is absolutely something. Star Trek would do is to take a person who is not typically, uh, cast in that role. They did it with Michelle Yo, when they cast her as the captain in the first season of discovery.

Jeff: Yeah.

Brent: You know what I mean? Um,

Jeff: they did it with, with with Jane Way and Voyager, putting a woman in charge. I mean, I was, I was keenly aware of what was going on and people lost their collective minds

Brent: did. See, I don't, I don't remember that, but I wasn't that in tune with the

Jeff: Oh, it was, it was, it was ugly. It was ugly. That's the thing. Just if I, it's really quick as a tangent on that. We look back on that eighties, nineties Berman, Aris, star Trek is like the golden age and everything is measured against that.

But when the next generation came out, I remember people losing their collective minds over a bald person being the captain. Be, this is not my, star Trek was the refrain. Yeah. The, the, the, the letter writing campaigns, people hated. The next generation. When Deep Space Nine came out, they were furious. There wasn't a ship, they were furious.

There was a black man who was the lead. And I mean just, just horrifying racist things. People were saying Voyager came out and they were like a woman as captain and le people, and it's like these are Star Trek fans who were losing their minds. And so now modern times people are watching this newer star Treking people.

Well that's Travis. Just what? I don't want my Star Trek to be woke. I don't want, dude, look back and Come on. Come on.

Brent: I mean, but go, go back to O'Hara on the original series. There's a black woman on the bridge in a command, in a, uh, not a command position, but in a, in a position of responsibility as an 

Jeff: A real job. She's not cleaning.

Brent: Yeah. Now she might have been a background character, honestly, but she was there and that was important. You had Sulu there, uh, an Asian man on the bridge.

You had, uh, had Spock, who technically Yes, definitely a white man. But so he was an alien on the bridge, like, like just placing people in these spots. Even the first episode of Next Generation when the dude comes around the corner and it's awkward as hell and they never did it again, but the, until we saw lower decks.

But the dude comes around and he is wearing a skirt

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: wearing the same kind of skirt that Deanna Troy would wear. You know what I mean? And you're like, that's weird. Except for in the future, it's not weird. We don't have those kinds of, of, uh, Things that separate us that, oh, this is strictly for men and this is strictly for women, you know?

Um, so again, there's a black man that is super well respected. He's, he's even a little bit older. He's a little seasoned, you know what I mean? And we found another black, I'm sorry I didn't even think about this guy. There was the other black man who's much younger 

Jeff: he was talking 

Brent: of the other one that he was talking to. So I, again, I don't know that this is a super message. I don't know that this is one that's really even being done in a Babylon five way, and except for the fact that they Babylon five more than anybody tends to just be like, Hey, here's this. We're not even gonna talk about it because it's just normal. That's literally the only thing I got, because otherwise, you're right. There's nothing really else to the show.

Jeff: It's a great stump. But I go back to even just last week with, uh, the, the other captains, right? You, so you had, uh, commander Levitt was a woman. You had Kagawa, uh, an Asian man. You had Mackey who was like, no one. There was just white dude sitting there. We go back to Marcus and Franklin on Mars just being two married dudes and that, you know, thought it was gross that they had to like each other, not that they were gay.

Go back to Talia and Ivanova and their relationship, I think. Yeah, that's a fantastic call. I don't think for this episode it bumps it up in Delta. Furious, but I think it takes Babylon five as a series. This is another. Example in a very large growing list of just like that thing we celebrate Star Trek for rightly so.

Plon five was kind of doing all along

Brent: Hon. Honestly, honestly,

Jeff: and maybe better.

Brent: Babylon five does it better. They really do. You know, uh, because you know what, you know, Babylon five didn't have, at least I don't think they did. Maybe they did. I don't know. I wasn't a part of it back then. I. All those people riding in, being assholes. Sorry if you have to beep that out, but Sorry folks.

This is PG show, family friendly. Sorry. Uh, but they

Jeff: actually, and that's a thing too. I I, I, I will lean on some people I Nia right? Our, our good, our good friend Nia, who we couldn't survive as, as an organization here without, and other people who were around back, you know, in the, in the Bbbs days and the stuff, you know, all the, the, the boards. There was j m s is famous for being interactive with people online and talking about the stuff when it came

out. Did this stuff. Get the hate that the, that Star Trek stuff. God, I'd love, I would love to hear a about those days. Don't, don't copy and paste things from the, the things. Just tell us, you know, did,

Brent: a yes or no. We'll,

Jeff: Yeah. Yes or no is, is perfect.

Brent: Yeah.

Jeff: Well, on top of talking about how great Babylon five is in all of its ways, but specifically around representation and other important factors that it brings to the table, we're also developing the definitive list of episodes in the fourth season of Babylon five. And Brent, you have to rank this one.

Brent: Yep.

Jeff: Our current top five.

Hopefully I updated this. Our current top five into the fire. No surrender, no retreat, the long night. Atonement and number five, whatever happened to Mr. Garabaldi? Brent, where do you put the face of the enemy?

Brent: Jeff, I like this. I like this episode.

Jeff: It's a good

Brent: You give me answers. I like it. And this, this episode specifically answered. One very specific question and it is now going to top that question. This tells us exactly what happened to Mr. Garabaldi, and this episode will take that episode spot in the top five. I am putting this one at number five on the season.

Good episode

Jeff: Really good episode.

Brent: might be better, but I like the poeticness of it. If it, uh, displacing whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi.

Jeff: Yeah, I think it's really good. It's good. Poetic, poetic ranking.

Brent: I like

Jeff: Well done. Well, that's it for Face of the Enemy. Next week we are watching intersections in real time for the first time intersections in real time. We clearly don't look ahead. Brent doesn't even look at the titles. He hears 'em right here when I drop him.

We don't look at thumbnails or show descriptions or anything, and then we like to guess and predict what the next show is about. I kinda ramble on when I explain the game because I'm creating time and space for Brent to think about what his prediction is gonna be, but he ends up going first on these.

So, Brent, why don't you tell us what you think intersections in real time is gonna be about?

Brent: Well, Sheridan's captured, right?

Jeff: Mm-hmm.

Brent: Okay. So he's gonna meet, uh, let's call him an examiner, an interrogator. And this examiner is gonna have him in room alone. And he's gonna hang Sheridan up by his manacles. We'll strip him naked, strip him of his name, refer to him. As something less than human. He will proceed to torture him and will tell him that unless he says he sees five lights, when in reality there are only four, then he, oh wait, you can gimme a pause.

Ask that point. Uh, but I, I think that's where we're going. This is chain of command part two for Battle on five, Sheridan getting tortured, uh, in, in, in a room. Um, I have no idea what intersections in real time has anything to do with that, but Sheridan got captured Sheridan. I mean, it's Goldman dread, like it, that's the only thing my mind can go to except for I'm gonna add to that like, I guess the b plot of the episode.

Garabaldi is gonna try to continue to atone for what he's done. They literally just want to shoot him, so he's gotta find a way to help without actually joining back with the team. And you know what the best way is to help Go rescue Sheridan. And Garra Baldy has to be the one to go rescue. Sheridan, Jeff.

This episode should be renamed. Wait for it. The Redemption of Michael Garra. Baldy.

Jeff: We shall see, we shall see. I think there's gonna actually be intersections in this one. Intersections in story. So Sheridan got captured. I think that Garibaldi is going to take the risk and he is gonna go to Babylon five and he is gonna be able to talk Zach down to arrest him. And what we're gonna get is basically a, a, an intersection, a comparison of how does earth force.

Treat their prisoners versus how does Babylon five and the liberation fleet treat theirs? Like they're both gonna be getting interrogated and questioned and we're gonna start seeing like, are they the same? Are they really, like when you boil it down, is it the whole like revolutionaries who topple a government just to put another dictator in place and repeat the whole thing and they're gonna use filthy dirty tactics?

Or are we gonna see a more humane version to what I'm assuming Earth Force is just gonna be, you know, the worst in every way that that Sheridan's treated. And I think for the B plot, and this one is those two occupy the A story. Lanier is gonna be going super third fan of Chomo Ninja style, trying to figure out the plan to break, uh, Sheridan out of wherever he is.

And we'll find out right here next week. Thank you all so much for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you're watching or listening. Leave us a rating and a review, and please click that share button and share this show with someone who is ready to fall in love with Babylon five again or for the first time.

So, Brent, until next time.

Brent: Jeff.

Jeff: Yeah. What's up?

Brent: Question,

Jeff: Okay.

Brent: if you were a mutant like an X-men, what would your mutant power be?

Jeff: Dude, I, I spend a, an embarrassing amount of like brain power thinking about this. My superpower would be the ability to eat whatever I wanted without getting full and without getting fat. Why do you ask?

Brent: Just there was literally nothing funny about this episode for me to finish this with, and this was the only fun thing that I could come up with tea in the episode. That's why.

Jeff: Dude, like this. Literally your only job is this joke dude. In, in Valen's name, in Valen’s name.