B52_205 The Long Dark

Transcript 

[0:00]You can only watch it for the first time once. It'll be interesting to see what we catch and what we do. Have you ever played a video game, Mass Effect? This is where Babylon 5 is becoming Babylon 5. That was great. I love that. 100% completely accurate, definitive ranking of Babylon. I love it so much. We're officially into it, Jeff. The year is 2025. 5, the name of the podcast, Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. I'm Jeff Akin. Brent and I used to be. I had to bring it down. I had to bring it down. You and I, Brent, we used to be Star Trek podcasters, right? We watched Babylon 5 for the first time, and we watched this episode, and so that's part of why I'm bringing these things down just a little bit, just level setting things a bit but uh we're watching this incredible uh series for the second time catching all the things we didn't know the first time which again is why i am level setting well speaking of setting levels we do have a certain level that we have to maintain jeff and that level is one of where we are searching for the sci-fi messages contained within the series now we've done this once before but there are things we didn't notice there are things we didn't catch the first time around we're coming back and hitting them once more trying to see the things that maybe we missed and.

[1:27]Where is this show actually holding up a mirror to society where is it giving us hope that things can be better in the future where is it telling us how to be better human beings to one another what was jms actually saying and we can say it because we can now look at the stuff where he tells us what he was actually trying to say that's what we're doing here now that being said jeff it must be stated at this point for all of our listeners and viewers out there from this point forward spoilers will abound if this is your first watch through the series please stop don't watch any further in this episode right now okay we have a whole series of for the first time that is completely spoiler free jeff and i were completely unspoiled join us with that one trust us you want to go back and do that because everything from this point forward jeff and i could talk about anything from any point in the timeline from anywhere in the franchise as a whole that includes the show the movies other shows books whatever we can talk about it all so consider this your warning spoiler alerts spoilers abound coming as we watched brent for the second time today the long dark yeah do you sir remember what you thought about this one um this for me is my number one most disliked episode of babylon 5 which says a lot if we go back and look at your first time viewing yeah this is this is my well i i really enjoyed this this this series as a whole and for the most part even the bad.

[2:56]Episodes were still pretty good for the most part.

[2:58]Yes especially when you compare them to other early 90s sci-fi or mid 90s sci-fi who had those those were some bad episodes yeah real bad so even the bad episodes of the show tend to be pretty good but this one for me just was not in any way shape or form i have to be honest with you jeff this is an episode i have been dreading to return in returning to on this rewatch.

[3:22]I'm not excited going into today. This is where I am right now. I've always promised you guys and told you I'm going to be completely honest with you with where I am. And I'm not going to pretend to be something that you guys think I should be. And I hope you guys understand that by now. I am not excited for today. This is the one where Franklin cements his creep status, in my opinion. Now, that being said, while I'm not excited, I am definitely interested to get into this episode and give it another shot and see what changes. Because you and I have both experienced changes to our, uh, original opinions of, of multiple episodes. And I'm hoping for big, big changes in this episode. I just don't think it's going to happen. How about you, Jeff? This was the episode I planted my anti Franklin flag. I didn't like him up to this point. I had a believers was where I really started to turn on him, but this is where I was like, no, this guy is objectively the worst. Uh, Dr. Bashir, uh, got out of creep status even before the end of the first, not out of, but mostly out of creep status by the end of the first season of deep space nine, here we are on the path of season two and we're doubling, tripling down on how awful Franklin is. I am excited though, to watch this through the lens of me actually loving Franklin at the end of the series, right? Do I see this any differently?

[4:41]But the thing I think I remember the most out of this one is this is the second worst episode in the entire career of dwight schultz really yeah what's the first so i don't know if you've ever seen it before it's a don't say don't you say it stargate called the gamekeeper punch you it was so bad it was so bad it was not it was dumb and horrible and it was the worst but it was not horrible and he was not the worst absolutely not you are wrong not my least favorite episode of stargate but my least favorite dwight schultz episode which says a lot Well, I've seen this one before, but again, opinions are like noses. Jeff, everybody's got one. And sometimes as they smell, I said, sometimes they blow. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, that's, I, I have, I don't have a single, um, positive memory of this entire episode. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. You say that Jeff.

[5:37]Because as we do, I went back and I listened. I had subjected myself to going back and listening to our original episode where we covered this from our first watch. Would you like to know what we actually said? Dude, I can't wait. This is a part, a period in our for the first time viewing where our community started to turn on us. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And Jeff, I have a red yarn theory about something having to do with Babylon 5 for the first time. Okay. Something having to do with us. Okay. And I'm going to connect some dots. And I think this episode figures keyly into it. So awesome. That being said, we had a great, this from an, from an entertainment standpoint of listening to a podcast, this one had a great intro. Okay. Okay. Let's, I want you to re we're going to reenact this. Okay. Because you're, you're going to roll with me. Let's reenact this. Let's go all the way back to Babylon five. For the first time you do the intro music plays it's done. Go. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin, and I'm watching Babylon 5 for the first time. Brent, Brent, it's your turn. You say, yeah, and I'm Brent Allen. What? Come on. Not doing it, Jeff. I'm not doing it today. That was how we opened the episode.

[6:59]He's like, I'm out. I'm not even doing this. Yeah, yeah. Now, we both hated this episode, and I have to say, Jeff, All right, listening to us, me particularly, I'm going to fully own this. I was admittedly a tad more obnoxious than I normally am on this one.

[7:18]Just a little about about how much i really disliked this episode um now that being said uh knowing where you and i end up on our babylon five journey okay i also laughed at my own dumb ass a lot okay and frankly yours as well my friend and i found the episode rather entertaining because i knew where we were going you know what i mean and i i found myself thinking oh just wait brent and jeff just wait just you wait um you know but it in a similar way to the way that when we were watching babylon 5 we didn't know where the show was going or how it was going to end up and we hated this episode so much that we almost raged quit this whole series i can understand i can fully understand jeff why people not knowing where you and i were going on our journey would.

[8:17]Be listening to our show and wanted to rage quit on us in the moment i get it for this episode more so me than you i'm fully owning this okay and jeff you were entirely likable the entire episode as i am and here's the thing this is my friend i don't know that we've talked a whole you and i have had a lot of conversations about this off mic i don't know how much we've ever talked about this so if this is news to you guys you've never heard this phrase before i apologize i'm not going to go back golden child this is the episode you became the golden child really okay this was it that's my red yarn theory is this is the episode where you.

[8:59]Just became the golden child of the show how so what happened you could do no no it's because because i was that obnoxious about hating this episode and you while were very critical you were very very critical you are still lovable and likable and i like i loved jeff aiken too.

[9:20]So maybe well it's the whole thing your heel turn was so strong that even if i was mid i became the huge baby face right um maybe send this episode to my ex-wife let her know like hey this is actually super cool now i i gotta say though all right one one more note about just listening to us as a whole and i'll talk about some individual things that we said every time and i've noticed this over doing the the re-listens through the first season and up to now every time we get into the star trek message part now it's time to compare this to star trek and see if it has any of that star trek quality i gotta tell you jeff to me right now listening to it it's ear grading and i hate it wow i'm like stop talking about star trek this is not star trek i know it's in the title but this is not star trek and i wouldn't blame anyone for fast forwarding through that section and not listening to the messages part that we found wow i would.

[10:19]Not blame anybody for doing that which makes me sad because we've had so much good stuff that we were able to dig out of these episodes and talk about yeah and get into and frankly that's the meat that's that's what makes this show actually mean something i think is when we get to that that part so i'm sad that we would do something that would cause people to fast forward through that part and i totally get why they would do that hopefully people are listening to it more now though i hope so that being said jeff you said that this was a waste of two good guest actors um.

[10:51]There were two? I don't remember. There were two. Okay. Yeah, there were two. Oh, yeah, yeah. The Copernicus lady, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You also called out the Drazi for not still wearing a purple sash or a green sash, whatever color they were supposed to dye it to. You were like, no, they needed to wear it.

[11:08]You actually spent the first bunch of episodes trying to protect me from a big spoiler in the credits. Oh, I knew about the spoiler. Yeah, yeah. Because you had watched the credits, and it's the part where it says it was the year of the Great War came upon us. Oh okay okay and you were trying to like yeah brin don't listen because it's a big spoiler they just put it right there in the credits and so here like like i said it because i like i had i'd i knew or i'd heard or something like that and you were like man that's what i've been trying to keep from you and like you were so sad and so dejected that like i knew about it or heard it you were like you were so disappointed i still think that's a huge spoiler i still don't like that they put that in in the open right uh you said b5 ripped off deep space nine those words came out of your mouth babylon 5 ripped off deep space nine i'm really sorry yeah yeah you said they got jumbo gach and their reference to 47 they had a good reference to 47 uh we did get a lot to talking about the b5 ds9 thing and you referenced the vanilla ice story oh yeah the dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, an eighth note, it's different. Now, I have since learned something, Jeff. All right. There is a YouTube channel out there that I dig. I think it's a great channel. I think you guys should all go get it. They don't pay me to say this, and I'm not trying to kill a reboot for them at all either.

[12:36]But it's called The Professor of Rock. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've sent you a few other things. It's called The Professor of Rock. Vanilla Ice was featured on The Professor of Rock. You should all go watch. It's excellent. This particular interview was really, really good. Vanilla Ice just seems like a good dude. I agree. It's a fun reality series with him visiting an Amish community. And I was like.

[12:53]This guy's great he was like doing construction and stuff with him it's definitely worth a watch there you go so they were talking about that one thing though about the the comment that he made about the eighth note and what vanilla ice and even the the guy the professor of rock dude were saying was like what's weird is is people thought he was serious at the time when he said it like they were getting sued by queen for for for stealing this riff and somebody asked him about it and he was he was just joking when he's like no it's completely different like he was not serious at all and he's like people took it so literal i was just like he was like i was 21 years old or 20 years old i was just joking around you know i love that good for him good yeah yeah but you also mentioned this and you said that the whole point of this episode was simply to validate jakar okay as it goes through because this is this is the one where he's all like the shadow like this is bad this is this is bad stuff happening and this is all about validating him and because in revelations we got the book of jaquan's aha doom and everything and this the point of this is like and look here it is yeah okay okay yeah now as far as me um i've very much lamented this one it made me want to quit the whole show um i said this episode didn't know what it wanted to be. And I'm, I'm interested to rewatch this and kind of track this piece. Cause I think this might still hold up.

[14:16]Was this a fish out of time or a fish out of water story? Is it a social commentary on mental health? Is it a warning about the horrors of war? Is it a murder mystery? Is it introducing us to a new key player in the series?

[14:29]Is it could have been all of those or none of those, but it never drilled down on any one. It just didn't know. It was just this weird ness of kind of all of it and it didn't work well together um at all i also talked about how season two has been a dumpster fire so far oh i bet that yeah that's great and um i talked about them shooting this thing with a sparky gun it's a sparky gun and we didn't know if they killed it or or what like this thing that they shot with the sparky gun um because they just kept going until somebody yelled them to stop so they're just until somebody's like stop and i was like Like, I was like, what?

[15:10]Oh, here's what I said at the time, Jeff. And I quote, this is why I'm bringing this up. I was like, what did they do? Shoot it three times with a Zat gun and they disappeared. I get that now. You were like, like, Oh, whatever. Anyway, Jeff, those are some of the things that I've found coming out of the first time. I fully own my crap on this and bestow the title of golden child to you, Jeff. What? What did JMS have to say about this episode? Yeah, not a lot at all. Most of what he had to do was like clarifying things for the people that were flicking him crap on the Usenet and whatnot. But I really, he made a comment that I really appreciated. And I feel like he was kind of owning that. I believe the writer of this is a gentleman named Scott Frost. And this would be the only episode of Babylon 5 that he wrote. In fact, very shortly after this, we dive into the almost all JMS writing of this. But he was owning it. And he said, from time to time, as we push ourselves to the limit, we're going to crash and burn. That's part of the risk if you really want to try and do something different. We push the envelope and sometimes get a paper cut. I feel like this might be more than a paper cut, but we'll see. We'll see.

[16:22]Regarding Londo looking more wicked. Can I interject something there with you? And if I'm stealing your thunder from a future comment, my apologies. But I just want to call out our wonderful council chambers who's joining us here for the live recording of this. And they're having their own little conversation our friend ben over in council chamber said i seem to recall jms saying something like some writers get it some don't and we don't ask them back and in the context that he said that in it was pretty clear he meant the writer of this episode okay yeah absolutely oh you seem to fit with what you were just saying there totally yeah you give me a paper cut i don't like paper cuts they hurt they do a lot yeah you ever watch the jackass movies yes yeah but there was one where they were like paper cutting but the webbing oh my god.

[17:05]I'm sorry, I should have given an activation warning because that is the worst. He's apparently in comments getting a lot of stuff about Londo, and so he says regarding Londo looking, quote, more wicked, we're doing some very small, subtle things to his appearance, his wardrobe, pulling them into a darker range of fabrics. He says, honest to God, you wouldn't believe how careful and detailed we are in setting this stuff up. He'll even be getting a new, slightly darker coat, straighter lines, closer in style to Rifa's before the season's out. It's really interesting when you know where this guy is going. And the final thing I've got. His clothing is foreshadowing and mirroring his turn. Yeah, it's... Like, that's what we're watching. Where he says, you wouldn't believe how careful and detailed? Agreed. Yeah. Absolutely. Final thing I've got on this one is he says, a thought on Sheridan, by the way, triggered by messages that I've seen or have been alluded to in which he was gigged for smiling too much, unlike Sinclair. So i just checked back in some of my archives and for the first four or five episodes the number one complaint about sinclair said he was smiling too much he smiled or smirked too much.

[18:14]Come on, people. If that's the thing you're complaining about, to quote the great William Shatner, get a life. Get a life. With all that, Brent. Uh-huh. What do you say? What do you say we put the bunny suit on and watch this episode? Let's do it, Jeff. Let's do this. For those of you joining us for the first time, welcome. I am fascinated as to, in fact, if you are joining us for the first time and you're watching this right now, please, in the comments, why this one? Why this one?

[18:45]It's going to be great. Like we're going to have a good time. You're going to have a good time. It's going to be great. But Brett and I literally are going to watch the episode right now. We, it's been two, three years since we last watched it. So we're going to watch it here in a minute. We're going to comment on it, have conversations, whatever. If you're joining us on YouTube, you're going to see the kind of cut up edited version, the reaction style video of that. If you want to see the entire uncut version of that, You can get it on our Patreon page at patreon.com slash Babylon 5 first, the number 5 in the word first. And if you go there, also Brent mentioned it earlier, the Council Chambers tier subscribers to our Patreon are invited to join us for our recordings. They're with us right now. We may be referencing things that they bring up in the chat as we go through. And even if we don't, they're having awesome conversations amongst themselves. And if you guys are listening to the audio version of this show, you're on one of our audio platforms. Welcome. We love that you're here. You guys are also going to hear the reactions to the episodes as they happen. They'll be all cut up because we didn't want you guys to miss that conversation. And we're going to meet you guys on the other side where we'll talk a little bit more about some of these new messages that we may uncover during the course of this episode. So, Jeff, let's go shine a light on the long dark. Love it. Accessing file. This is the Copernicus. We come in peace.

[20:11]It's an old code, but it still checks out. Oh, God, I remember. It's all coming back. I don't know why I find that so funny. You know, I remember saying this back then, and I'll say it again. Nobody plays crazy like Dwight Schultz. So true. Oh, this is when are he and Garibaldi like have the whole PTSD sort of thing, right? Yeah. Okay, okay. They do. It is a flood. Floodgates are open. This is the first time we heard the word Gropo. He's like, oh, you were a Gropo like me. Yeah, I remember that scene right there. Good chance you're going to see that on the thumbnail. You know what's funny is they had to film him putting his face down on the floor, and then they had to take a camera and film him putting his face against a piece of glass. The kingdom is done. They will have something on space. I like this, actually. Hail Mary. No. I like the caption there. Frankly, though, Jeff, I'm not a Catholic. That's about as far as I would get in Hail Mary as well. Hail Mary. I don't know the answer. I like the caption. Hail Mary F you. That last project was all. Oh, no. I have walked in the valley of good. Keep on walking.

[21:41]How is this just not in their database? Oh, it's this kind of ship. Because it came from the same place you did. I mean, okay, so if a sailing ship from the 1700s suddenly showed up. Yeah, we can identify that. Yeah, 100%. It's the USS. Earth? I've never seen this design before. And check your history. There it is. Ships like this were used in early deep range exploration. back before we got jump gate technology i was gonna say that's gonna be 101 level class stuff this is you got this in high school pretty primitive back then yeah maybe it missed a thruster firing or went off course it's been a drift ever since possibly it's been a ship the whole time i don't think it's a drift it wasn't a wrong turn but it did go off off course why don't we ask the pilot there is something alive in there share it into med lab we may have a patient for you in docking bay four we might have a girlfriend for you in docking bay four the the whole their whole like indication that's it's just something in there is alive as it just flashed on a certain part of the graphic it didn't like zoom it down it didn't give you details also i like how the ship is now resting on the floor right just like that is not a tall ship at all you're gonna bump your head going into that ship understandably though i mean here go cryogenically sleep you don't need room here's a question a submarine just.

[22:58]If you were to take a submarine, put it on Earth and stand next to it. How tall is that submarine? Oh, I used to be able to tell you exactly. But no, there's three levels on a submarine, so not a lot. That's what's dead. Also, it would roll over and fall outside. Hey, look, it's the typical ordinary sci-fi thing. Find an old ship, somebody's left alive. And you know what I said? There's a rule. There's a rule in sci-fi, okay? If the person alive, they're going to be one of two things. Either a hot girl or a white British dude. They're one of the two. And if it's the white British dude, he's the bad guy. He's evil. Yeah. He's the bad guy. And you know because he's British. Also, he's a dude. Right? But if the other one's a hot girl, even if she turns into some weird bomb thing, she herself is still awesome. I'm losing your pulse.

[23:58]I like the music there you and i heard that at the same time to the walls get to the walls from the window, oh god the sweat drop oh no you in the war no i missed it he didn't you know dunderdall points out a good thing why is franklin in his uniform and not in a bed that same dream oh he's off duty or doing you know paperwork or So I got called in on an emergency. I love that recognition by Garibaldi. Like, I know what he's going through. You ever done this before? Oh, I've done everything before. I like how he's scratching like an addict. Trying to make light of it and knowing what he's going to do. Like, the tortured look on his face. Nowhere special. Just a gropo. Gropo. Big deal. Figured you for a ground pounder. Oh, no, he just told us what it was. Me too. Now, your first Watt, listen, are you hearing I'm a gropo? And then going, I figured you for a ground pounder. and understand that those two things are connected? No. What about the dreams? Never. Dreams? I never dream. You've been talking in your sleep. Is there a reason that that door is open? You can go. I know some good counselors. I've used them myself. Now, what would a man with everything in the world do with one of them?

[25:14]I really like garibaldi through this stop okay i want you to take this here's garibaldi very sober-minded talking to dwight schultz who's just crazy and out of his mind he's relating to him he's been in his shoes he knows exactly where he is now take this conversation jeff and juxtapose it to the conversation that lockley has with garibaldi in season five where garibaldi is on the other side of this conversation as a drunk and lockley is going look i know exactly where you are because i've been there or that zach is having with garibaldi and so you have this conversation happening there only now garibaldi's on the other side and he does the same thing here amos walks out now garibaldi and i don't got nothing out that's great that's great it's Almost as if through the series, Garibaldi loses empathy and compassion. And then he gets it back at the end. Uh-huh. Because he's back to being Uncle Mike. Exactly. Well, you know, at least it reentered the picture. When did it start? Moments ago. Looks like a dream. Or a nightmare. Nightmares are dreams, too. I'm a doctor. Stop touching her head right from go! Dude! Dude, look at his thumb! He's all like, Hi, baby! So bad. Oh, my word! You put your hand on her shoulder at most!

[26:39]At first! And then you take it away. Then I found this. According to the system analysis, there's no malfunction of the other cryogenic tube. He should be alive. You double-checked it? Triples. I figured it's a bon event. Were they the only two on the ship? Yeah. It wasn't like a whole bunch of other cryogenic tubes. Because I seem to remember a bunch of other folks. Really? I think it was just the two of them. Just the two? Given his height and bone structure, his normal weight should have been about 180. My normal weight should be 180. That's my left leg.

[27:18]It's called the Vidians. What happened to the organs? There's no evidence of them anywhere on the ship. If there was so much as a cell remaining, we would have found it. I think we'd better have a talk with the woman who was with him. I don't think that's such a good idea yet. She'll tell you things I did to her, and you can't have one. According to the ship's law, she was in stasis the whole time. Yeah, she couldn't have done it. If you don't mind answering a few questions. What were you doing on that ship? Will, my husband and I, are part of a commercial research group. He's not your husband anymore. They needed volunteers for a long-term deep space station, and I jumped to the chance. We were assigned to the Copernicus. Look at him checking her out. You see his eyes? She was programmed to home in on any signal we might come across and wake us up. Well, he's watching that vein in her neck go up and down as she talks. I never thought the signal could be of human origin. How long were we in stasis? I'm sorry, what? I was not paying attention to what you were saying. I think we should take this a day at a time. That doesn't sound very good. How long? Strong. Well, I don't have the exact number. Down to get the friction on. But over 100 years. Okay. I take that back. A ship from 100 years ago. Yeah. We're gonna recognize it. Absolutely. I'd like to see Will now. I don't even have to go to class for that. And sending them out had to have been a big deal. Like, you know, it's like, hmm. I'm afraid he died during the voyage. I'm sorry. Oh, God. But it's okay, baby. I got you. We still haven't been able to determine exactly what happened. We just said goodnight to each other. Yeah, that'd have to feel so weird. But look at her nails, man. They are perfectly managed.

[28:45]That's the joy of cryogenic foot freezing. Your hair stays good, your nails. Let's start counting the seconds before Franklin moves. I'm going to try and check my Franklin bias here and start looking at it a little more. I'm having a lot of fun, but I want to be fair. He's earning it. like it's not an it's not an incorrect assessment you can hear it yeah okay so knowing what we know now jay okay let's piece this together council chambers you guys can help us out chime in on this if you need to all right thousand years ago there's a big battle shadows vorlons.

[29:21]Minbari were a part of that valen all that sort of stuff right they defeat the shadows the shadows, scattered across the galaxy bury themselves underground in various planets right they're now waking up and they have been for the last while a couple years couple years they're waking up and returning to zaha doom yes many were at zaha doom but now they're like marshalling their forces they're kind of all waking up and they're they're coming out of the grounds and all that sort of stuff right and so zaha doom what's that i know right andrew it's the thing is i've seen the end of the show so i know i know where this is going bring it up in the fourth season like it's a thing well the third anyway at the end of the season yeah it's the shadow of zaha doom like i get it you know but um uh z minus right yeah z right right right so that's what's going on but also we know of these minions and servants of the shadows and they're also going and what happens here is at some point in history dwight was on a ship that got attacked by a shadow or a minion of the shadows and it sucked like this particular one like sucked all the organs out of them which is nothing we ever hear from anybody else ever again right and basically left him alive as a messenger or something i don't remember they're moving way ahead in this while he and and he.

[30:48]Jumped off of his ship and jumped onto theirs and then ate her husband well if i remember right there he jumped onto this ship to set it to go to zahadum like we're going to find out at some point the the coordinates were reset andrew says that that the the thing was it left schultz alive to feed on him slowly okay he's the snacks and this is like a proto proto drach a shadow servant that we never see again because it was bad and jms didn't bring it back and also it makes sense to have more than one race of minions and servants sure sure but that's what we're that's i'm just i'm trying to track with exactly what we're talking about here and what's going on so okay, um but yeah part of him is in this monster so he's feeling it yeah and that's why he's drawn to the copernicus interesting okay but it's supposed to be the same monster that messed him up yes i think so i think so yeah look at her arm in arm we linked up yeah bias gone casual clothes.

[31:51]This is a date in anything like that she's on a date like he pulls out the chair for her that's not just being a gentleman no and we still have an outgrown violence oh no not even a little bit it's going to take up more than 100 years we've actually ingrown it doctor a lot more ambassador, This must be our visitor from the past. I'm her. I'm like, what the... Mariah Sears, this is Ambassador Jakar of the NAR. She should be like, what, five fingers? Take my advice and go back to the time you came from. The future isn't what it used to be. I love that. Why is this freaking her out with him?

[32:32]I don't think it's Jakar so much as maybe like she stood up and the blood was rushing and then Dr. Franklin sexually assaulted her. And so that's what triggered it. I mean, he's sexually assaulting her hand right now. Right now. And we're watching it happen. God, the 90s were such a time. I haven't been completely candid with you about... Why are you touching me? It would be the question I would have. What are you saying? He didn't just die. Something killed him. Something that was on that ship. No, there were just the two of us. Just the two of us. Sing it, Jeff. Sing it. You think I killed him? No, no, no, no. I think maybe something in your dreams might be... Yeah, Andrew's saying, I thought you were going to go easy on Frank. I was going to look at him in an unbiased, give him a chance, but oh my God. You've been giving him a chance. No, you did. You did. And this is still where you came. Get your hands off her face. Oh, my word. I like that. He's got quarters in every sector for medical emergencies. Ah!

[33:30]God dang it. Rip his medical license out of his hand now. You and I, you more so than me, are adjacent to the medical profession and stuff. And it just turns every fiber of my being to see that. I guess not. You actually asked me in the episode. What would happen to somebody? Oh, they'd lose their license like that. Like that, yeah. Why don't you just lay down again? Go ahead and close your eyes. Get comfortable. Listen here, chill out, Cosby, all right? I arrested a lurker named Amos who was stationed on a deep space listening post during the war. 47 men landed on that moon. All of them were slaughtered. 47. Amos thinks what wiped out his post came here on the Copernicus. No, we ran a thorough scan on that ship. If there was an alien on board, we would have found it. Unless it's something we'd never seen before, something completely outside our experience. Good for you, Garibaldi.

[34:18]I like that for you. It passed within the gravitational pull of the same moon that Amos was stationed on. This Mariah Cirrus may not be what she appears. She had nothing to do with this death. How can you be sure? Because she was with me last night. Oh i'm kind of fast aren't you i don't sleep with my patient yeah you do pain and i'm helping her that's all i want to watch put i signed her out i i discharged her and then i just i'm sorry look he just said i want to watch put on her 24 hours a day and i don't mean you you know what i've just realized jeff the show is calling itself out it knows what it's doing i appreciate that at least the show is because even garibaldi's like whoa you're moving kind of fast there doc that's a great point like this is intentional pushing franklin this way jms wants us to not like dr franklin turns out i was right now i think jms wants us to like dr franklin just whoever the guy is that wrote the story went way too far way too far but i i do think okay let's think about what's actually happening in storytelling world right now okay we're setting up the idea that franklin has a lot of stress that franklin uh we already know he does the underground stuff.

[35:32]We saw him kill a kid well save a kid but then wound up killing the kid right um we we saw like we've seen him do these questionable things and this is going to culminate in his pill addiction or his stim addiction you know and so if that's where we're pointed here with this then i i think jms is right like this one doesn't quite nail this makes him more of a creep than a doctor who's just doing some shady stuff yeah yeah you know um shady like like running the underground clinic yeah that's shady but it's honorable it's all it's a good thing you know uh going against the parent's wishes shady but honorable to save a kid's life moving in on a patient even though you're not sleeping with her to which everybody's like yeah there's no sleeping captain sheridan had to be like i need a watch put on her because one she might actually be responsible for this and two she needs to be kept safe from you from you doc.

[36:31]Yeah i almost think that if they had not done the scene in his quarters that might have moved that story narrative along in a way that was still not great but better it's that scene in the quarters where it's just like what i what i want to know is was it written into the script that they're walking through the zocalo arm and arm and that franklin pulls out a chair like was that all part of the script or was that something the director and richard biggs put in threw in yeah you know uh because it makes a difference of whether that was intended to be the message that was delivered or this was just the director and the actor kind of missing the forest for the trees of that you know are you suggesting i'm not doing my job i'm suggesting you're doing something outside of your job whatever's necessary to protect it go over her bioscan again and make sure you haven't missed something oh i've been all over the bioscan he's been bioscanning her, with more than a light multiple probes i londo i i sentari words for her i hope you're right all six of them but if you're not be careful.

[37:36]If you do nothing about her presence here we will i don't like threats and as long as i am the law on b5 i intend to see everyone is protected human and alien alike understood, this meeting's adjourned dude now i want you to picture sinclair saying that same line I frankly believe it more than Sheridan. What if something did get on board the Copernicus? Yeah, I think Sinclair could deliver it, though, in a meaningful way, but it has more weight with Sheridan. I don't believe it when I see it. Let's hope we don't get the chance. Jakar is putting it all together. Well, again, you said this episode's about validating Jakar. It's interesting to me how so many of the races recall the Shadow War of a thousand years ago in specific ways, and then so many of them don't. Like the Centauri. I get why humans don't. We weren't around, but I don't think we find out what the Centauri were up to. Okay, rise and shine, pal. We know what happened to the Narn. You know, everything in your Earth Force record suggests you're out of your mind. You want me to believe you? Then this is your chance. Take me to where you followed it. What? Right now. I love that Garibaldi's like, I believe you. Show me. Look how it's changing his entire demeanor. Because he's just been called crazy this whole time.

[38:54]You want me, you bastard! Well, I'm here! Come on, let's finish it! Come on! Yeah, get it, man. During the war, there was a guy in my unit who kept telling everybody our perimeter was weak. We all figured it was nuts. Until then, we'd never seen any action. Then one night, we stopped laughing. Came through that perimeter like it was paper. He was the first to die. Saved our butts. It was a nut. And he was right.

[39:22]I believe you. Look at that Dwight Schultz acting in his eyes right now. It's being validated for the first time. What it means to say, I believe you. Tell me about the listening post. You know, here's the thing. This is another one of those episodes where actually, if you look at the whole story of Amos here and Garibaldi, it's actually really good. This is fantastic. It's fantastic. You take away the whole Franklin stuff. And this is great. They set a camp in old ruins of some kind. As far as we knew, it was a dead world. I think Schultz is doing a great job. Like, this is incredible. I mean, the open was ridiculous, but everything from there, this has been really good. We heard nothing, saw nothing. It came right through the walls like a hot wind. First man died just meters from me. Never even screamed. Meters. What is that? I don't understand. We ran. How far is that? Then I saw it. It looked like it had come straight from hell. A part of me is still inside that thing. I can feel it. And it's trying to come back home.

[40:26]Okay, this went from being like a deep emotional look at something to can you follow your missing body part by feeling it? Can you put your hand out as a divining rod? Maybe we have some unfinished business between us. I tell you what though, you put this role in the hands of a less gifted actor and this is ridiculous. So let's have this conversation on the back end. We said that this was the waste of two really good guest actors. That's all I have now. Do we still maintain that this was a waste of at least one of the two good guest actors? Not a waste of Dwight Schultz. I was going to say, we can have that conversation at the end. Maybe I'm assuming more than I should. Why is his arm not around her? I would fully expect his arm to come in and be around her waist. Well, because he got chastised. And he's questioning himself. You just lost your husband. Oh, now Franklin's going, hey, we're moving a little too fast here. And I'd be lying if I said I don't miss him. I do. It'd be weird if you didn't. And I want to find whatever killed him. And I think it was using me to stay alive until it could find more food. More food. That's called rationing. Right? Yeah. Spreading her out. Smells... I mean, that smells... Sounds intelligent to me. I almost feel like this thing's another take on the knuckling feeder.

[41:45]Official accounts of the massacre at the listening post playing the attack on the Mimbari. Amos may not be sure of much, but he is sure of one thing. That post was not attacked by the Mimbari. Whatever's in the station came from her ship. If what the lurker said is true and there is some kind of a symbiotic relationship, who knows what kind of... The lurker has a name, people. She could be scouting for it without knowing what she's doing. If what happened on that listening post is happening here, we're not going to have to go looking for it. It'll find us. Let's just make sure we're ready for it. They couldn't get her like an apartment or something. Just here, live in Med Lab with your clothes. On a bed that is this narrow that if you roll over, you will fall off of. Yeah. That's not even a twin size magic. I need your help to find out. And have it elevated four feet off the ground. Right, make sure it's going to hurt when you fall. Actually, yeah, with Andrew in the council chambers chat. They don't give her a hotel because at least here they can monitor what happens to her while she's sleeping. Right. Doc.

[42:51]We don't see a lot of those rifle PPGs throughout the rest of the series. I like how the security guys have body armor, but none of the key players do. Right? Well, they don't need it. They have plot armor. True. Amos! Kill it! Kill it! Shoot! Shoot! They should have made a bigger deal out of him just literally floating in the air. Get down!

[43:29]It's the Sparky Gun. Yeah, totally. You wanted me? Here I am! Imagine the hell he's been living through that this, he's just willing to be like, do it. No more dreams. Let's end it. Amos, get clear! Amos! Hover fire!

[43:53]They shot it three times with the Zat Gun and it disappeared. No more bad dreams. It's over. I didn't get my piece out of him first. I have a really important Stargate question for you. Okay. If you get shot in succession by three different Zack guns, do you disappear? Or does it have to be the same Zack gun three times? Or does that depend on the plot? Depends on the plot. Okay. Also, there is very clearly something that has to do with the amount of time in between shots. Which is variable, again, based on. I'm going to say it has to be from the same Zack gun. Okay. because we have seen multiple times where people get shot by multiples at guns and they just knock out you know um so yeah it's it's got to be by the same and my guess is it's because each one has its own frequency that it's on and it's that it's a disruption in that frequency okay yeah i was just thinking he basically got three shots from 16 ppgs here and so it equals the Although it occurs to me on an energy-based weapon, if you shoot somebody with multiple energy-based weapons at certain frequencies, frequencies could actually cancel out, and then they would not do any harm to the person whatsoever. At all. Something to think about.

[45:08]Music.

[45:13]Are you sure he's going to be okay? No. He's just banged up. I gave him something to help him sleep. Was it the same thing you gave her to help sleep? Yeah, why isn't he in your quarters? What's going on there? So, what about you? What about me? Dude, he's literally in the middle of treating another patient. He turns out and he's like, how you doing? I thought about it, but I can't. I need to see Earth very well. Mourn for a while. I just need time. If I can, I'll come back. if you're still interested. Oh, I won't be. I think there's a good chance of that.

[45:49]Did she just put her finger on his lips and then kiss her finger? That's what I would do. So that's like, look, I'm being nice. I'm also not touching you. Well, I was going to say, you don't know where those lips have been. What other patients have you been treating? Captain, we just got finished analyzing the database on board the Copernicus. According to the ship's log, the Copernicus lost 10% of its oxygen when it passed by a moon in sector 18 by 70 by 59. Which would have been caused when that thing came aboard. Exactly. But when it left that sector, it was heading on a new course. That thing must have been more intelligent than we thought. You said the ship was reprogrammed to a new destination. So where was it going? It was heading for the rim, toward the exact place where Ambassador Jakar told us an ancient enemy was gathering its forces. Zahadun. You think it's a coincidence? Probably. A few weeks ago, I probably would have said yes. But now, no. Something's going on, Commander. I know. Between you and me, it's scaring the hell out of me.

[46:44]They said what? I don't know what y'all talking. That's not a shadow yeah if you looked really really closely when they were shooting the thing it kind of almost sort of looked like exactly that thing yeah sort of all right brent we just made it through the very very very long dark what do you got infection awful episode hits 27 minute mark makes a dime becomes a great episode yep okay soul hunter had some good bones to it still overall not a great episode tko most people would say jeff not all but unreasonable unreasonable.

[47:19]People yes is it's a half of a good episode and then a half of a not a great episode i'm in the middle on that one um gray 17 is missing half the episode's great half the episode's not right um late delivery from avalon some people really appreciated it some people did not right you can always find positives the first time around i found no positives out of this episode same the second time around actually found quite a few positives in this episode you know i don't want to watch this episode again i if i have the option to skip this episode every single time in the future i will take that option agreed all right i just i will however the gold of this episode is in the relationship that happens between garibaldi and amos absolutely that is a phenomenal look at what's at what's happening there is a little bit of the furthering of the shadow plot line here but if you didn't have this you would be missing nothing from that plot line agreed you know so it didn't really do a lot for us when you think about 22 episodes each episode is a chapter in a novel or something like that and each one has to be indispensable to the whole.

[48:31]Fail on this one well there's a reason why this guy's not coming back it builds anticipation right? Like we're building them into a bigger thing. It's going to all points converge Zaha doom. I think if we take a really long look at this to the end of the third season, uh, then it is this is building up the uh the impact of the big moment of the nukes on on zahadoom but a little bit it's a shuffle not a step in that direction still it's not enough to save this episode none of those are enough to really save this episode and the franklin stuff you and i both tried to go in this a little more open-minded going hey let's not and it was so overdone it was so much worse than we thought it was it really was it really was the only redeeming factor is the episode was aware of it it almost makes it worse and called itself out and trying to figure out okay where are they going what are they trying to do my best guess is what i said during the middle of the episode is this is just trying to set set franklin up for his fall and redemption arc and stuff like that so fine but yeah that's kind of that's where i am left on this episode i still don't like it. Is it going to be the worst episode of Babylon five when we get to the end? I don't know. I, I foresee a situation where this is not the bottom of the list for me. Yeah. I think it's still probably bottom five, bottom 10 for sure.

[49:54]But I, I don't know that it's maybe even bottom three, but I don't know that it might be the bottom. I see some others that possibly could be worse than this. How about you, Jeff? What, what, what do you got coming out of this one? The thing I also loved in addition to everything you just said was this was a fantastic Jakar episode. We watched it the first time I said the purpose was to validate Jakar, but I think also knowing the arc, the journey that Jakar goes on during this series, we got a glimpse at late series Jakar in this wisdom.

[50:23]Uh, calm, patience, seeing the long game, understanding, reflecting a lot of the qualities that if we roll all the way back to midnight on the firing line, we're unthinkable. For this character. So I think it was a really big step in his growth. But yeah, I agree. I did not like this episode. I have an entirely different view of Dwight Schultz in this episode. And again, we appreciated it the first time, but now I enjoy and really acknowledge the importance, the importance of the Garibaldi and Amos stuff. It hit me to kind of pivot into the message discussion there was a line that garibaldi said they're talking about amos who everyone just refers to as the lurker lurker which is gross right and kind of helps understand how earth got to the uh fascist states it's about to become in babylon five where you know oh well we can just take these people and call them lurkers and they're gross and whatever but garibaldi says uh what was it he's been he's so he's a he's been so decorated as a soldier you could open up your own gift shop or something like that. Right. This is such a ribbons on his chest.

[51:34]Yeah. This is such a reflection on, we take someone who gives literally themselves to be a war hero. And this is the commentary on what society does to those people. This is a reflection, a mirror to society right now. We do the same thing now. People go and give their whole lives. They come home to broken families to no employment to addiction to poor mental health and we just write them off and we call them homeless vets at best and worse things on top of that and here's a guy who experienced trauma that like i think it's meant to reflect the trauma of war but on such a level like he was literally consumed as a human over a long period of time and almost to the end we're just writing writing him off it's disgusting and dwight schultz did such an incredible job portraying it the acting in his eyes in a couple of moments was just this is why when you watch this the first time you're like oh they need dwight schultz for this yeah because no one else could do what he did right and the fact that he did it in such a way that was unrecognizable as being dwight schultz right yeah you know what i mean like it's not just hey he plays crazy really well so here he is is whatever his name was from a team or you know here he is as reg barclay or here he is as whatever. Like, no, he, he.

[52:53]Was bringing a new character to life here so do you have any other messages well we captured a line that you and i are both like oh that's good and it was that uh something like evil sometimes wears a pretty face oh yeah to which jakar went true he's like yeah look at mine.

[53:11]I look good and that's a that's a mirror to society that's just a message that's a warning right that's just a heads up to people that like well actually what you know what i think about that is at the time we're recording this, the, um.

[53:24]The Dune movies are to Ben very popular and Dune three isn't, is heading into production. And, um, you know, then he is taking a bit of a different bent on the initial, initial story that Frank Herbert put together. But the, the theme of the Dune series is really, Hey, watch out for charismatic leaders, red alert, red alert, big deal and i think that like that's that's kind of what we get here you know they're charismatic they're pretty they speak really well whatever the thing is that doesn't mean they're good right like and ben points out morton's actually a pretty pretty man he really is and he is the face of the shadows god his hair is so i mean i mean he's so pretty he's punchable yeah totally and i bet he'd like it too you said that a little too sultry my friend i did i did yeah that's what i got did you get any message stuff i did i did and i like this one track with me okay okay uh this comes from the moment where uh old girl whatever mariah um she's having a conversation with franklin and she realizes that she's she has this line like wait you mean what if we would have just waited a few years we wouldn't have had to go on this big trip well what the heck.

[54:45]Right. And it was, it was this real look of regret and it kind of got me thinking in that moment. And, and Franklin had a great line after that. He's like, Hey, you didn't know that that was about to happen. What you did took courage and it took bravery. And it really, I was sitting there going, you know what?

[55:02]Regret in the face of something not working out, you know, Hey, I did this thing. I attempted to do this thing and it all went to hell. So-and-so died this, you know really bad stuff happened and what was it for because if we would have just waited or if we would have just whatever then we wouldn't even had to do that right and i think the message there is really true you've got to remember when you made your decision to do that thing you weren't working in hindsight right you didn't know what was about to happen you didn't have 2020 vision that way you know and depending on exactly what the situation is quite possibly you choosing that course of action took some bravery.

[55:41]It took you stepping into the unknown. It took some courage for you to get out there and go do that. And more likely than not, even if it didn't take any of that, you were making the best decision with the set of information that you had, you were working with. It's one of those things, Jeff, and I'm going to go back to my days as an NFL podcaster where we covered a lot of folks and we covered draft. Now I got to tell you, I hate the draft. a lot of people love the draft they get into it a lot of people might have just pulled off the road and threw their phones out the window if they were listening to us when i said i just i don't like the draft and you know why i don't like the draft jeff why is that one i don't follow college football that closely but also we hear nonsense there are there's there's 500 people that register for the draft every year maybe close to a thousand right 200 and something are going to get picked that's it that's it and everybody's putting out these mock drafts of how they think things are going to go in it and never it never goes that way.

[56:41]Ever because you're also very rarely are you accounting for trades and you know proper trade and all that sort of stuff like all the things happen and it just it's there's so many different variables of what could happen that as a person who covered the team i was like i would rather just let the team make their pick and then talk about them on that side instead of talking about all these other people who will never play for the team that i'm covering does that make sense yeah um that being said that's a whole aside we could cut that whole thing out of our deal uh but this one matters nfl gms get judged based on their draft picks yes big time more so than anything else more so than the contracts they write more so than than free agents they sign they get judged based off their draft picks and when their draft picks go bust they lose their job and i've never thought that was fair because and we do this thing all the time we go back and regrade a draft after the first season you know or we do and you're just you're you're looking back with hindsight and you're saying oh you should have drafted all these people you know well Aaron Rodgers was picked like number 26 the year he went Tom Brady was a sixth round pick the year he went all right um there's lots of examples of people that went way later and all these Lamar Jackson Lamar Jackson was picked number 32 31 other teams were like now we're going to pass on him.

[58:05]You know, it's ridiculous. But the thing is, is when those NFL GMs make those picks, they can't see the future. They don't know what's going to happen with this particular kid. They're working with the best set of information that they have available to them in that moment. And they're making their best pick based off of that, based off of team need, based off of their assessments, all that sort of stuff, input from their coaches, all that stuff. Let's remember that when we are making our decisions for stuff, even when it doesn't work out, don't question your decision. You were working with the best decision you possibly could have at the time.

[58:39]Even when tragedy strikes. It's a tool that you use in speaking to someone with emotional intelligence and empathy, where if we have a different perspective on a thing, and I take the time to listen to your perspective, right? Give you a chance to speak and be heard. What I can say in that point is like, I don't agree with you at all. And I still think that what you did or the choice you made was awful, but given your perspective, your experience and the perceptions that you just shared with me, it makes sense to me how you made that decision. I have different information than you have. You had this and I can understand. I don't agree. I understand how you made that decision.

[59:19]Wow. Could you imagine our world right now? If we talk to each other about all the ideological differences we had that way, it could be incredible. But I mean, to, to that point there, Jeff, you know, I, I, my kid just experienced something this past summer where he was on the receiving end of, of a bad deal with stuff.

[59:37]Yes. Yeah. You know, where he, he got, he, he had to take the blame and the brunt of punishment and stuff like that um from a camp person from somebody at camp and and bad things happened and turns out actually it wasn't his fault and he had absolutely nothing to do with it while i think the decision and what the camp director the decisions that they made were wrong and i'm clearly stating that it was wrong they were wrong when they did that given the set of information they had at the time and what was going on in the moment i don't blame them for the decision that they make right I probably would have made the, actually I did. Cause I agreed with them in the moment. Yeah. So I'm not blaming them, but I am saying now looking back, it was the wrong thing to say. And those, those two things can exist mutually exclusive of each other. Absolutely. I think, you know, if I could say what's one thing, Jeff, that you would tell the world that would make it a better place, it is that the either or thinking binary thinking is dumb and ruins everything. More than one thing can be true at the same time. And in this case, with Mariah, it sucks that you gave up a hundred years of your life when all you had to do is wait two years and the whole galaxy would have opened up to you. And isn't it amazing that you and your husband and the world had the technology, the wherewithal, the foresight, the courage to go explore the galaxy.

[1:01:01]All of those things are true. And who knows what great things she's going to do in the future, Mm-hmm. You, you know, you don't know. And to the point that some people in the council chambers chat said this, Suzanne said up here, and we've been saying this forever, right? What, what's one of the big things that we got beat up for during the second season on our first time watch? We didn't understand foreshadowing. It's foreshadowing what, when you're in it, you can neither for nor shadow because it's just what you know. Yeah. And I got, and this is the perfect example. You and I hated this episode the first time. Now that we can have hindsight, there's some sparkling parts of the episode and some that actually we like even worse. So, yeah, great call on the message. I'll give you one more, and then I'm done.

[1:01:49]Mariah says this one thing. I forget exactly what she was talking about in the moment, but she's like, remember, she's from 100 years ago. She's like, you guys haven't figured that out yet? And they're like, yeah, we thought we would have. You haven't outgrown violence yet. Right oh that's it that's what it was yeah the idea that we will not have outgrown our shit in 100 years from now and i say that word very emphatically it's depressing and frankly it's a warning because i gotta tell you what i've got to imagine somebody back in 1925 we're recording this in 2025 somebody in 1925 we're talking about 20s flapper era pre-civil rights pre-world war two post-world war one all of that era is going on somebody who's maybe a little more forward thinking right say they beam into 2025 and they go you guys haven't figured out racism yet and no actually it's just as it seems like it's just as bad as it's always been we're still here and to be like really are you we haven't got there yet are you kidding me i i'm not issuing this as a message just as a warning work on your stuff focus yeah yeah.

[1:02:56]You know work on your stuff anyway that's that's what i got for messages jeff dig it well jeff messages being what they are you know we we said that it's honestly one of the most important parts of the show that we do but the single most important thing that we do is we do our babylon five for the second time season two ranking it's a hundred percent accurate it's completely definitive it's immutable no one can touch it right it's guaranteed or your money back jeff you get to place this fifth episode in an episode of four. Now we did something kind of shenanigans with this one last time. We did.

[1:03:31]I don't know that we're going to, I don't know that I'm going to let you do that with this one. This time, last time we were like, Hey, let's go ahead and just list five through 22 and just slot it at 22 and let it be. I'm not going to let you do that this time, but you do have to place this one in our 100% completely accurate and definitive guaranteed Teed is the new word I'm going to say ranking of season two, Babylon five, Jeff, our current listing is the geometry of shadows, points of departure, a distant star and revelations. Where does this one land on the list? If you're watching the video, you can see the sunlight pouring into the window behind me. We're recording this, uh, relatively early in the day, which isn't a normal thing that we do. So I was brushing my teeth before we got on to record and I was preparing for this very moment. And I thought to myself, a hundred percent, I'm doing the same thing that we did last time. This will be number 22 to start. But then Brent, we watched the episode and I am not going to do that. Whether you allow me to or not, I'm not going to.

[1:04:39]This is not the number 22 episode. Let's face it. I couldn't stop you anyway. Right? That's the thing. It's my responsibility. It's my call. It's immutable and yeah it's not even i'm not even confident this will be the number 22 episode on the season that's what i said yeah like it's it could be a lot of things that said it is not the geometry of shadows no points of departure no or a distant star or revelations brand this is the number five this is rounding out our top five yeah yeah it will and it's the only time this episode will ever be in the top five yes this will continue to drop but yes probably maybe not to the very bottom there i i could if this wound up being 2021 or 22 i would not have a problem with it agreed on this episode i don't know that it's going to get any higher than that though i'd be shocked if it does get higher than that then we're in for some really rough episodes right.

[1:05:35]We do have some weird ones coming up to kind of land in the middle yeah some odd things well jeff That's going to do it for the long, dark, Next week, an all new episode for the second time on deck for us, a spider in the web, Jeff, a spider in the web. I need you to go all the way back. So when we did this for the first time, you heard that title for the very first time. Do you remember what your prediction was going into this? The first time we did this, what was a spider in the web? My prediction on this is incredible. And I think like, again, looking back on everything, it kind of repaints. I, I, so the first part of my prediction was that Bester is going to be back. Right right and so uh uh everyone knows i have a controversial opinion about bester maybe not everybody but jeff has a controversial opinion about bester i do and i think a lot of it started right here because my prediction was bester's going to be back and the story and everything like he and his team and through the story are going to manipulate things to make him look like the good guy hey jeff do me a favor real quick um could you remind me what happens in this episode and a spider on the web yeah this is the one with the guy who was in xanadu and has like the implanted personality uh-huh he's a mars first dude yeah yeah so it's bester what's that psych or it's psych or psych or uh-huh it's about oh bester's not in it but it's it's bester yeah well.

[1:07:03]Actually we'll talk about it at the very end yeah no i think it's talia actually this might be the bureau 13 episode yeah yeah i think you're right i think you're right i think you're right i think you're right what did you predict for this one uh i said someone is gonna get caught in something, um and in fact i time traveled to try to manifest this um and i said it's gonna be Londo and Jakar and Londo is going to have Jakar on a string about something. Okay. Okay. He's going to have him like, like kind of think like that flower thing, only way more serious at this point. I wish that your prediction was it's going to be Londo and Jakar in an elevator.

[1:07:46]That's so good. Not till season three, my friend. Right. We got to wait. It's coming. We got to wait. Yeah. Cool. Well, we'll see y'all next week. We're going to talk about it. A spider in the web. Thanks for being here with us today. Please, if you haven't already subscribe, like star, do all this stuff, interact with us, right? Make some comments down below, or we have like links in the, in the show notes to our socials and all that kind of stuff. So, so hit that up. If you haven't subscribed, please do. I think I might've just said that, but also, um, please share this show, right? That's the best way we can grow. The best way we can build our incredible community here is to share this show with other people who have not dove in for the first or the second time with us. So until next week, we're going to go ahead and yes, Brent, what is up? Yeah. I said it before. I'm going to just say, I'm really, really glad to put this episode in the rearview mirror. Indeed.

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