Walkabout | For the Second Time

[0:44] The year is 2026. The name of the podcast, Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. And my name is Jeff Akin. Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters. Then we watched Babylon 5 for the first time and everything changed.

[1:05] Now we're watching this incredible series for the second time, because Babylon 5 is a series that you get to watch for the first time, twice. Twice that's right but jeff you know what we get to do for the first time twice as well what's that search the show out for messages you're right and that is what we are doing this time around we did it the first time around if we had some good ones back then maybe get some good ones now maybe we're looking for those things that hold up mirrors to society tell us how we can be better human beings to one another maybe they just give us hope that things can be better in the future now that being said this is our second watch so for everybody out there who has not seen this show for the first time for themselves this is your one and only spoiler warning because anything from any point in the timeline is fair game for jeff and i to talk about not just in the timeline but also within the franchise in canon extra canon in universe out of universe it's all fair game for jeff and i to talk about so if you haven't seen this turn this off we would never tell you to do that except for in this situation turn this off and go watch the first one we have a whole first one just scroll back up go get it there but this is your spoiler warning be warned because we will talk about other stuff we will this week brent we're watching walkabout for the second time uh the first time around we would make predictions about what the episodes were knowing nothing about them my prediction for walkabout was that we're going to get the new vorlon ambassador but they're not going to show up alone.

[2:28] They're going to show up with a pissed off and furious Lita Alexander because Kosh is dead and it happened on Sheridan's watch. Dude, that's literally the B plot of this episode, right?

[2:42] Literally the B plot of this episode. Well done, my friend. Sort of nailed part of it. What did you predict for this one? I nailed the other part of it. Look at that. You had one. Have I had the biopowers combined, right? I said it is a literal walkabout and it's going to be Dr. Franklin and he's gonna go deal with this crap and after this one we're gonna start liking franklin now i would suggest to you that it is after this one that we started liking franklin it was after it maybe not directly after it right after but i said that this is the one where he i did say he's gonna go get it under control and he's gonna face himself that actually doesn't happen for a few more episodes but he is actually going out on a walkabout with all of that intent and this is where he all gets going so there we go together we did a pretty good job what do you say we take a moment and catch up on some of our highlights from our first time watch oh i would love to hear what we said the first time around all right kudos to our delen for and thanks to our delen for putting this together here we go previously on babylon 5 for the first time, Walkabout. Walkabout. Walkabout. Walkabout. Walkabout. He called us a professional. We're professionals. Right off the bat, let me make some people's day. I'm going to say something nice about Dr. Franklin. He was right.

[4:05] I'm not on the train, though, of liking him yet. In fact, I'm probably not even at the train station. he judged her he judged her like that and turns out she it was actually medication not recreation.

[4:20] That she needed it for she's holding up the glass right and like doing the whole like looking at him which i thought was brilliant filmmaking you know like cool cinematography absolutely yeah it's like look here are here's the broken franklin and the sides of it like 10 of this episode was caitlin singing and then like i look at my watch and i'm like she's still singing and then again she's still singing those songs that she sang were awful how in the name of the maker does dude walk down below and buy an orange this whole series just lost all credibility i dig new kosh though i'm not gonna lie i i like the look they don't seem to be the extrovert that kosh was and that's saying a lot i've got to ask though his big thing was did kosh leave any of himself inside of you and then turns out oh no he left himself inside of sheridan what do we make of there's a piece of kosh inside sheridan kosh said as long as you're here i'm here because kosh yep oh he was doing the he transferred his cotra to sheridan we're gonna see the payoff when Sheridan is on Zaha Doom and he's about to die and then Kosh will burst forth from his chest as an angel and whoosh.

[5:47] Sheridan's of Orlon. Sheridan's of Orlon. Jakar brought everyone together.

[5:52] I mean, awesome conversation between Garibaldi and Jakar, where Garibaldi just called him out. And he didn't just bring the Narn heavy cruiser, he brought the whole gang. Together we can achieve this, you know, on our own. They're going to eat us up, but together, where is the great egg?

[6:15] She's still singing she put the song in it don't you hear what she said what you should put a clip of you at the end going she's still singing well you do such a great job you do such a great job with these that's so fun dude yeah your prediction if he's gonna get to zahadoom and then kasha's going to burst forth from his chest and there's a that did not happen at all but holy crap what that could have done but kosh was he's the one jump like he was there with him because he was there with him it is true yeah a way to pick up on that you it's pretty fun i i'd have to pause really quick and just i want to i want to highlight us you and me a little bit seeing these old clips of us. I mean, this is from years ago at this point. And you and I both have been on different health journeys. Dude, you look so good now. You've done great work. Thank you. I appreciate it. More to do.

[7:16] Hey, it's these moments where we can look back and just be like, we did it, man. It's good stuff. Still got a lot of work to do, but I appreciate it. And you know what? You look good too. thanks you're you're in an entirely you're an entirely different place in life right now than you were back then yes and what was happening in real life was very much affecting you there and you did you did wonderful i'm not masking it you just were you in the middle of it and continued to be you uh but there's a different glow about you these days yeah thank you that's really cool so thanks for seeing that and at the time i was just being a professional kept doing my job Listen, listen, it's the it's the whole the whole thing from Top Gun, like with after Goose died. And what do they say to Matt? Just keep sending them up. It's just the best thing for him. Just keep sending them up. But you got to keep doing. I think another thing that you've worked really hard on is scouring the Internet for cool things that JMS might have said about this episode. My friend, you are a professional. That was a smooth transition. I like that one. Thank you. What do you got on this one? Yeah, there's a bit. There's a bit. A lot more than I thought there would be, to be frank.

[8:29] JMS says of this. He's like, this is, um, of the final five episodes of the season. This is not at the top, but JMS's words about this episode, it ain't bad. Okay. I think that might be about where our estimation was of this episode. Like, I don't know that we ever said this was a bad episode. It was more of just, it was an episode. Yeah. Like by the time it was done. And we also, because we had shadow dancing, we're like shadow dancing, did everything walkabout was supposed to do. And better. And did it better. Right. Like shadow dancing actually makes this episode a bit superfluous, at least as far as the Franklin stuff goes. That's how I remember it. It'll be interesting to see if that holds up. That is what we remember, right? It's, it's that's, that is coming off our first watch. We haven't done the second watch yet. So, okay. You and I have, we've heard this. We've talked about this. There was a lot of stuff about whether or not this should have been shown before war without end or after war without it. And lots of people were very upset with us that we watched war without end first. We were following a different order at the time, but that order also included the order that was on HBO Max.

[9:43] I don't remember. I don't remember which one it was. It was whatever that order was. Well, it was our good friend, John Krikorian, who recommended that. We went with his view order. Yeah, yeah. And to that, so somebody asked JMS, was this initially supposed to come before War Without End? And JMS said, yes, it was. They wanted to put Walkabout first, but that would have meant that War Without End Part 1 would be the only part of that duo, the two-parter, that would have aired during Sweeps Week. Oh, okay. So they pushed this one to after War Without End so that they could get War Without End in, and you didn't have to wait for the fall to start Part 2.

[10:29] They actually wound up flip-flopping not just the airing order, but also the production order. So they because they they had to they had to get it so they actually filmed war without end prior to filming this one and they put war without end so what is the actual correct order honestly probably watching war without end if if you really want to go by it however look at us doing it wrong and doubling down on doing it wrong well but somebody then asked is if the order was going to be corrected in the future right and he said no because it doesn't make that much of a difference yeah and so here we are it doesn't make that much of a difference we're just sticking with our original order one more before now i have a few more that we'll get to when we get into the show but uh do you know the name erica gimple, don't so erica gimple is the one who that she's the lounge singer in this one oh okay okay that's okay i don't she was one of the cast members from fame on broadway oh wow okay yeah yeah so she's coming in pretty legit yeah and uh and and that's actually her singing the songs and stuff like that so uh songs that by the way we know jms wrote and we'll have more on that later i want to do I want to do a quick impression of Erica Gimbel. So they say, hey, do you want to come? We had an audition for you to do this thing. And there's some singing in it. And she's like, oh, that sounds really cool. I like the idea of that a lot. And then they go, yeah, so here's the song. And she's like, okay.

[11:58] And then they go, and here's what it pays. And she's like, oh, yeah, cool. Sign me up. That's probably how it went. I'm pretty sure. Probably. Yeah. That's how it went, probably. Probably.

[12:11] Well, Jeff, why don't we see exactly how it went? Why don't we jump into this episode and watch it, my friend? Yeah, it's time. Hey, thank you for joining us. If this is your first time, thanks for being here with us. We love it. Every episode is someone's first time, and you've chosen a heck of a one to start with. What's going to happen from here is we're going to pull up the episode. We're going to watch it right here, right now, and you're going to come along with us. If you're on YouTube, you're going to see the cut-up, edited, reaction-style video that you see on YouTube. If you want to see the full and the unedited version of that, you can go to our Patreon page. There are links in the show notes, and it's at patreon.com slash bad nerds. And if you're listening to us on an audio podcasting app or whatever you're doing, don't worry. We're not going to leave you out. Jeff and I are going to have lots of conversations over the course of the video. We don't want you to miss that. So we're going to have that audio in there for you as well. And then, of course, we'll be back for the conversation on the other side. Jeff let's watch an episode let's take a walkabout accessing file non heavy cruiser this is intolerable what guarantees will you give me that the cruiser will not open fire none sentari vessel as it approaches Babylon 5 absolutely not it's the same guarantee I gave when I said that none of the other narns would break into your quarters in the middle of the night and slit your throat get a boldy you have never given me that promise you're right bingo.

[13:38] I like seeing Londo get us come up. There's Lita, your prediction. All right, right there. Vorlon Transport carrying a new ambassador just came to the jump gate. The Vorlon Tron ship. And it was a different ship than what we've seen before. Yep. Thanks. The way the day's been going, I'll take whatever advance warning I can get. With everything that's been going on around here lately, he just needed to get out a little, stretch his legs a bit, so he took a walk. Oh, I remember this. Cargo stabilizers. This is Sheridan doing Sheridan stuff. Yep. He has no business doing this as the station commander. And her response says everything. She's like, we go again. He's out there like captain's prerogative. I feel like he's going on his own little walkabout out there. Right? I feel like he should have a few more anchors and tethers. There's magnets. OSHA approved stuff. I'm sure it's fine. Magnets never just stopped working. It's all right. The ship stopped and went up and go, I'm gonna look at you up here.

[14:43] I think that had a rather, there's a reason it was written in an alien dialect, because I don't think we could put that on TV otherwise. Okay, real quick, help me out just because I want to make sure I have names right. Kosh Naranek was dead Kosh. Yes. And Kosh Olkesh is Kosh 2 Electric Boogaloo. Yes, or at least, I don't know if it's Kosh Olkesh, but it's Olkesh. I can, hmm. But we never hear Olkesh in this series at all. He says in this, we are all Kosh, and then we never name him again. I can tell you, I'm almost positive. I'm almost positive that I have, because I have the complete collection of the action figures. I'm almost positive that I have a Kosh Naranek and that I have a Kosh Ulkesh. Okay. And we know how accurate the things on the toys are. They're very, I mean, they're canon. And so who said it in here? Yeah, Ben says it. I've read this as well, that Naranek is a title. It's not like a surname or anything like that. Okay. Like it's like ambassador or something like that. Okay. Dr. Franklin hasn't been in or out of his quarters in three, almost four days. Has anyone seen him lately? No, got Garibaldi worried. Ever since he resigned med lab, he just hasn't been the same. He's in a lot of pain. Damn, I should have gone to see him. So they say he actually resigned med lab. I didn't know what to say. Yeah, I was floored. I mean he just looks menacing from go yeah did.

[16:02] Jms have any comments on that that you caught he did but it actually wasn't something i was going to bring up but just since you asked he he.

[16:09] Talked a bit about like where they got the new designs for the new for the new suit and everything like that and it's just he had somebody design them and like there was just some updated ideas that he had from having the first one in there and um he also mentioned like they updated the headpiece with how it works there was nothing there's nothing intentional about the color of the eye or anything like that it's just what happens with this particular one but he does mention that there's no reason to think that a single vorlon goes through his entire life with just a single encounter suit that makes a lot of sense encounter suits so it smell really bad possibly possibly um he he also mentions we just saw lita on there i just i find this a little humorous morning it kind of a little bit like whoa james you're throwing that out there he says pat tallman has larger than normal eyes okay which i guess like a track he's like that's part of why i cast her because they're they're just a little bit bigger than the average normal person's eyes hey whatever gets i gotta tell you when i saw her come on screen i was like yeah she does doesn't she okay bear in mind he and pat tallman dated for a while so there's there's some personal stuff there's some stuff there yeah apparently he digs large eyes get it joe this thing get your thing to i listen i ain't shaming john sheridan this is my second commander susan ivanova thank you for coming i wish we could have he did mention that this cautious colors are more red and green ambassador kosh as well as i might have not as much purple i'm not sure anyone did really but we were enriched by his presence.

[17:38] And we are all diminished by.

[17:41] How should I refer to you when we're alone? Kosh. Ambassador Kosh is dead. We are all Kosh. JMS did say this new Kosh has a bit more of an edge to him. Yeah, a little bit. I do find it interesting. There's the whole trope of like, oh, so this thing got blown up or this person died. And then we have a replacement and then we just call them the same thing. And it's like, oh, the Defiant blew up. Or, oh, I don't know. what's her what's her name um chick on bewitched samantha yeah oh look here's her new husband he's also darren yeah it's just not dick sergeant it's hard but this this is set up that way oh we're gonna call you the same thing uh you're gonna stay in the same place we're just gonna pretend you're the same person had they not updated the encounter suit it'd just be like oh he died i guess well hold on so this occurs to me i've never really thought about before what is the vorlon government what is that like how do they have commute how does the boron government communicate if not through their ambassador person you would think that's how i mean do they send an email is there until they they use their minds right like exactly how is the government like who are we talking to in their government who's giving us instructions what do we call do we have titles for the people in their government right do we apparently because naranix a title right dear Vorlawns. Like, is that what it is? I guess. He's a Vorlawn, alright.

[19:09] I feel like in a way they're all worried about Franklin and that's nice and kind also. Can't dude just take some time?

[19:18] You could lose yourself in the music, the moment. Suzanne tells us to watch Garibaldi trying to open his oat bar. You had a very big problem with Franklin just getting an orange from down below Yeah.

[19:51] They grow them in hydroponics It's a thing, Ben says it's an orange colored spoo ball, thing and you start walking in the foundation adopted the idea from the aborigines back on earth the theory is i do love that they don't just try to co-opt this idea like this this tradition of walkabout let's say we adopted it from this other group of people yeah like yes we're doing yeah it's not hey i'm just kind of dropping in i'm doing this thing that i thought was kind of cool but it's not like this is a thing we do and we got it from these folks over here i think that's actually kind of cool they they give that shot out there if you separate it from yourself you start walking and you keep walking until you meet yourself you know how crazy this sounds you're a doctor a scientist and and what exactly, uh-oh dude we got a little darth vader action going on here i'm sorry i wasn't here i was doing what he told me to do they didn't have me on the call sheet for that day.

[21:07] I swear. Okay. So here's something I don't think we ever get the full extent of. And this may be Council Chambers House was out because this may be something that's in the books. Or maybe I'm just forgetting it. Lita clearly had a role within the Vorlon government, or at least with Kosh here. She had a job that she was supposed to do. We do know that sometimes Kosh, like... Now, we never... I don't know that we ever saw Kosh embodying Lita, but we definitely saw him, like...

[21:38] Like transferring something that I, I mean this in the literal sense of the word, not in the, the, the juvenile sense of the word. I'm going to keep that in mind. Cause I know what you're going to say. He was filling her up, not feeling, filling her up. Right. Like he was, he was basking her like for what it appeared to me was she was just like on drugs with him. Like she was basking in his light. She was, she was doing that whole thing. Right. But there's this whole thing now about she was supposed to have a piece she's supposed to be there she failed in some mission what was that mission do we ever really find that out do we know at this point we do and i think it might even be in this episode we find out um we just don't know right now in this moment exactly what what she was supposed to do is what sheridan ended up doing which is carry a piece of kosh hold a piece of him and why didn't she have her piece of him because she wasn't there why does that depend on proximity because she goes he's in her and let her be he goes in and out of her he doesn't leave a piece he hasn't left a piece in her.

[22:44] Well that seems like a failure on cautious part not lita's part well she even said i was doing what he asked me to go do yeah i just i mean unless unless when he she's carrying a well it's not because it doesn't work like this with sheridan but i was gonna say unless like when she's carrying a piece it's kind of a gold type situation where he sort of controls her like that but that doesn't happen with sheridan at all i don't know that it's that she can he controls i think it's just he's kind of along for the ride yeah so again why doesn't he just have a piece of him in there all the time and just let it be i don't know so again this is more of a failure of kosh not lita i would agree because if she's supposed to be there to catch him she should have been there that if he sent her away right right but also she's not been there for most of whatever because she's not been in the cast yeah exactly you know but i just yeah whatever this guy is expecting of her is unrealistic it's it's unrealistic and it's very unfair and it doesn't seem like it's anything near what she's but it does seem like she has an understanding of what her role and her job was supposed to be because she seems to i'm now taking this with you i mean she's on that is she on that attache level that veer lanier type level with him it doesn't feel like it's exactly the same but i think that what they have are jobs what she has is like an obligation yeah and i you know i see a lot of people saying that kosh knew that his death was upon him and so he sent her away.

[24:11] I'd unless that's in a book or that's extra canonical that i haven't found somewhere, that seems like something that's just headcanon like i i would say that given his resistance to sheridan he didn't know he was gonna die until that moment until that moment yeah that's that's kind of that's kind of where where i'm i'm with you on that so um although i can very much see that this new kosh coming in has unrealistic expectations and this she is kind of getting and railroaded here, and this is not okay the way he's treating her. He probably expects his attaché or aide or whatever to be there all the time. Yeah. Hi, I'm going to have this. I have drum machines in the pocket. Last kiss, so turn down the light. I will be here in your arms for eternity.

[25:05] I remember the first time you touched me I remember I'm simply going to say this.

[25:13] This is not my style of music okay i mostly don't like this because this is not my style of music i've tried my best to get on joe's good side not piss him off yeah hasn't worked the fact that he really likes the way these songs turned out and i'm like yeah no not good i'm gonna just leave it because it's not my style of music maybe if this is your style of music you'd be like yeah that's actually really really good to me to me it sounds like my 10 year old daughter wrote these lyrics.

[25:39] Yes it has the same kind of pacing it has it just it has all that i i've heard ai songs better than this one today you're getting so close you're getting so close to what's actually wrong with this song keep going but the biggest problem the biggest problem i have with the song it goes on too long yes it just goes on too long like it where i paused it should have been the end of the song and then we move on and he wrote a song he wants to get it in he wants to he wants to to whatever i i understand that the song's done move on that's that's what i to to answer uh texas endless shocks question directly what i really don't like is it's just too long and i recognize it's just not my style of music it's too long and it's not only it's too long it's that it goes nowhere with its length there are different places a song can go that when you have a longer song you change it up right like in some point unless the point of it is to be numbing and and here's where I'll make the case for the song. It's background music at a bar. Yeah. Right. And so maybe it shouldn't be the most engaging music. You're just trying to sell more beer or whatever you who that that's there, but this is what's wrong with it. It's highly manufactured. Now manufactured music is par for the course nowadays.

[26:51] If you hear a song on any popular, whatever thing it's manufactured, there are four to nine credited writers on it. There's people actually going through and like manipulating uh how they do the the beat the the key the there's that actual like um uh doom got beat that is catchy yeah.

[27:17] That happens. And if you listen to so much pop music from the last 20 years, that is the vocal pattern of the hook. It's always over and over again, but they change it up as the song goes on. Here's the thing.

[27:32] The manufactured music that they have today is catchy and like has a hook and you're kind of into it.

[27:38] This is manufactured music that is literally white unbuttered toast. There's nothing to it you've got a clear drum machine sitting in the pocket no soul whatsoever you've got a bass buried in the mix that might be the best part of the song actually but you can barely hear it and then she her singing's fantastic like it's beautiful but it is the same thing if you looked at a waveform of her voice it would just be solid for the last play for the for the last play that i directed yes okay this play um featured the it's centered around a woman who was an award-winning gospel singer top touring band of the 70s and 80s because i i just needed almost white noise transition music okay i i needed something that would just be like hey this is what her song was we didn't have licensing rights to use other songs right so i used ai real quick just to just to throw something together you know and i don't i don't love doing ai i really don't you know but we're not i'm not creating a song in an album that is actually meant to do anything or say anything it's it's not meant to it's none of that is is what's happening it's just meant to serve uh uh it's it's it's more like set dressing for for for the show you know only it's audible that to me is honestly what this song is like and i know jms says that the the.

[29:05] The lyrics are supposed to be with what's going on in the thing. But again, it just goes on for way too long. And you're right. It goes absolutely nowhere. Now, JMS says about this, he wrote both songs and he likes how they turned out. Okay. Cool, man. I'm not trying to wheeze your geese or whatever, man. Dude, I've written songs that I love and they're horrible. Listen, I will tell you as a creative person, some of the stuff I'm most proud of, some of my favorite things I've ever done are the least popular things I've ever done. Yeah, no one cares about them. But I love them. you know but jms also says he can't read music so he has to quite embarrassingly go to somebody who does read music and in this case christopher frankie who did the music for this jms wrote the lyrics he's like he has the melody in his head so he has to go hum the melody to a music person so they can then translate that to go be so imagine jms sitting in front of christopher frankie hump like here's the lyrics and here's what the melody is supposed to sound like you know what for free he's like oh let's put music to it okay frankie would be all about that because that's what songwriting is yeah you sit in a room and it's so often i'm like yeah so we go in there it's gonna be and they're like no no no more of a you need more of that and you're like yes now i get it it's how it's how you communicate when you're writing songs so he did the right thing he just probably didn't do it well there is a there is a language to it shall we finish this song. Yes, please.

[30:34] See, it came up, but it just immediately came up and just settled back into another. It didn't go anywhere different. She still looks like Jennifer from Deep Chase Dying to me. Yeah, not exactly. But like, like, I got to look at it be like, is that no. Okay. Got the upbeat ride symbol going. Where's the drums on stage? Where are the drums on stage? Oh, it's a drum machine. They're not making any bones about that. They also have a sax player, but there's no sax in this song. I will tell you, as a front of house artist, this mix is awful. It's so bad. A drummer did the mix on this.

[31:13] JMS said that they wanted to release this. Some people wanted him to release this on a B5 album. He's like, I'd have to add like 30 seconds each to make it like airplay compatible. And I'm too lazy to do that.

[31:24] Listen dude i'm also can we just talk about how awful that microphone looks yes this is as soon as it uh came on screen i'm like oh god no like that's nothing it looks like roll on like roll on deodorant you're not wrong here's the other thing wrong with that song it's not the song that's the problem it's the whole scene nothing happens except that song for how long was that 14 hours yeah listen it what that reeks to me of is i wrote this song i'm really happy about it and i want to put it in the show and i'm just gonna throw the song in there yeah rather than let it serve the story we're gonna carve time out of the story to to put this in here franklin getting a drink sitting down being like oh i'm interested could have taken eight seconds yeah and been fully satisfying you know mr lanier since i'll need a translator you'd be an asset of course i would be honored you'd be an asset and marcus isn't on the call sheet so even if we succeed in jamming one of it also looks like lanier sitting there looking at him one of the firepower to destroy it butthead any of you could send along one of your ships as escort only the jataka is capable of a mission of this nature i will have to discuss this with her captain fair enough Dylan? Anyone else? I need a cut to Lanier just giving him like a stink eye. Look at Kosh there at the meeting.

[32:48] Oh, you see that look of disgust on her face? I do have one concern. We do not know how strong a telepath has to be to jam a shadow vessel, or how many are necessary. Rita is a P-5. She may not be strong enough. I agree. If you're determined to go through with this, I recommend some backup. P-5 with some Vorlon juice.

[33:07] P-5 asterisk. See if it makes a difference. I'm trying to minimize the risks. You're not minimizing anybody's risk if you don't bring back solid information. This way, we'll know exactly what we need to shut these things down. i agree good all agreed say aye aye opposed nay the eyes have it the war council has spoken you'll do it our way at least we know they're still following robert's rules right in the future right steve and i'm kaylin kaylin and i am proud and honored to make your acquaintance i like kaylin i hate her song but i like her i like the rainbow like prism look on her now here's something i do remember from our first watch the whole thing about the walkabout is you get out you just start walking until you find yourself and you sit and you have a conversation with yourself and there are multiple franklins right there right but you all you and i also really thought that him finding her was him finding himself yeah it was in a way talking to himself by talking to her yeah and turns out that's not exactly that's not at all what it was nope but we're en route to Sector 90 by 110. Can't mistake that voice. There have been three shadow attacks in this area. He's been so many things. The odds are good they'll hit again soon. The second we hear anything, we'll jump to normal space. Feel better about this if we had a few more ships.

[34:27] Now I keep looking at her eyes. Right? Me too. And she does kind of like, it's almost like a... Yeah. Like she's a little amazed all the time. Yeah, I really like this. I talked about it the first time too, but like, see there, two Franklins, three Franklins, four, five, six... I have a theory that... We're really the two. I think we're really... Refracting our soul, mind, and body like a rainbow. It's not right you live in here like this. You could do so much better. Dude, you're so patronizing. I am where I am and it is what it is Maybe she's very happy with her life Look, I'm okay I'm not a wounded bird, I'm a musician for God's sake You're lucky I have a roof over my head I wish there was something I could do There is.

[35:15] What? Medizine Medizine? That stuff is prescription only, it's a narcotic I know it, it helps me sleep, Well, you could sleep a lot better if you didn't drink as much as you do. He's just judging. He's right, but also like, wow. You just hooked up with this girl. Maybe you need to turn it down a little bit, man. Look, you asked if there was anything you could do. No, look, ask me anything else but that, okay? Okay. You need to be on a line of sight for this to work. That's the second time in not so many weeks where we talk about you have to be on the line of sight. Have to be on the line of sight. I don't recall hearing that the first time. It comes up a lot in the series. Lita? No! No! No! No! No! But also, couldn't she just turn around and change her line of sight? I think it knows we're here. Lita!

[36:27] Gosh! Because he touched her. Yeah. They tore him apart. Burn, you bastard. Yeah. It went from like, hey, this is kind of hard to you going down. Mr. Lanier. Not moving. It's crumpling. Alita's souped up, man. She is. Do it now. All power to the forward. She is holding that ship. One focused, continuous burst. But there's only one person on the ship, right? Now. Yeah, the CPU. Yeah. So that's really the only thing she's having to contend with is that person. More power to the weapon system, Mr. Lanier. I think it'd be interesting if she didn't get the blood in her eye until the ship got hit. Oh, because of the connection. I like that Lanier gave him information and then let him make the point. Keep it going, Mr. Lanier.

[37:37] I'm all right, I'm all right. I just need a moment. Get her a tissue. Maybe a glass of water. I feel like we should see stuff on her back. Like, they should show us that to see, like, she has marks on her back from something. Or, you know, uh-oh, she's doing the thing. Yep. Sometimes you do what you gotta do to survive, man. I could feel it shifting around in my mind, trying to slip away. I tried to stop it, but I think it got off a distress call before we killed it. How many telepaths do you have on board? Three. There are four of those ships. We'll do what we can are they line of sighted? I swear that guy looks like a great council member to me how species is this of you? He's his own person, they don't all look the same they all look the same.

[38:28] Yeah, man, this is the superiority of angled beds. Can we fire? Weapon system at 60% of normal. Not enough to hurt it. If there's anything you can do, now would be a good time. All right, here's a question. Does line of sight work over video? I don't know. Like, if I'm looking at you, do I have line of sight of you? I'm going to say for sci-fi, yes. I can't get through. Shadow vessel locking on. There's a part of me that thinks her acting is atrocious, But I'm also, how do you act telepathy? She's better at it than Talia was, though. Bring us around, fast. I also think they got better at writing it as the show went. This is Jakar to White Star. Are you all right? Yes, for now. Thanks for coming. Oh, I'm not on the Jutok, Captain. And I brought some friends.

[39:32] It's the birth of the uh isa right jakar moving it forward we should really track this those moments that the races come together building up to it they did indeed we got it indeed i know it's every time i hear that word i'm like india and so it begins and so it begins yeah i did she Did she just hear that or did she just remember that? Does she actually have a piece of him in her? No, but I think she's keyed into the piece in Sheridan. Did Sheridan just hear that then? He's not keyed into the part yet. Oh.

[40:08] Wake up. Wake up, Kalen. Kalen, come on now. Was she OD on it? Kalen, you hear me? Or did she not get it in time? Come on, Kalen. I feel like she didn't get it in time. Either way, Franklin, this is the worst case scenario for a one night stand. Right. No, really. She stole it out of my jeans while I was sleeping. I'm not... Making sure that she's okay. I know I'm a drug addict, but I didn't give her anything. Right. We've got her on a Metazine drip now. Metazine? Are you out of your mind? That's what put her in here in the first place. Doctor, it wasn't an overdose. Yeah. What are you talking about? I saw the vial in her hand. I found her unconscious on the floor. The vial hadn't been opened yet. My guess is she used your identicard to get the Metazine from a local dispensary because she couldn't afford it anymore. Then she came back to her quarters and passed out before she could use it. Passed out from what? The pain. Lack of it. I'm sorry, I thought you knew. Knew what? She was diagnosed with terminal neural paralysis a little over two years ago, just before you got here. Incurable.

[41:03] She took it pretty hard. She had a pretty good career going back home as a singer. Dr. Kyle handled the diagnosis. Dr. Kyle! It's a shout-out. Why wasn't I told? We assume she'd gone back to Earth. We don't generally track patients after they leave here. And what she's still doing here is anybody's guess. She's doing stuff with Franklin. How much time does she have left? given her current condition six months maybe seven so again franklin being all you deserve better she's living her best life right now man look at her even now she's like i'm good how you doing you see they give me the vip treatment so who's gonna pay for all this is franklin paying for this out of his pocket does he have the ability to just comp it like not since he resigned like hell that's when he's like actually leave of absence I still got my benefits then, right? Right. Yeah, but we're all gonna die from something, hun. She called him hun. I just needed something to help me get through the pain. And that's why I took your card. Don't send me away, Steve. Steve. I couldn't bear it. You give her whatever she needs for as long as she needs it, all right?

[42:20] You're not my boss anymore. You can't tell me what to do. You're sure you're all right. I'm fine. I'd still like you to stop by Med Lab and let them take a look at you. All right, I will. Excuse me. I told you I don't have a piece of kosh. But it's possible. I don't know for sure, but it may be. Someone else does. Song number two. That's a weird transition. Like him looking up and then it starts like... Is old kosh going to start busting this song out? This is a better song. The microphone really throws me off. What? The microphone really throws me off. This is a better song? Is that what you said? Yes. It's mixed better. Yeah, exactly. There's vocal modulation and differentiation.

[43:23] Okay, here's the thing. I could see that last song, JMS, Joe, buddy, I could see that last song being a legit song. Like, I could. If that was my style of music, if there was an album and that's what the sample was, that could be legit. That first song, I just can't get there. I just can't get there. Yeah, no way. There's just something that's, I don't know. Yeah. There's no life to it. I know I talked about that AI thing, and I don't think I – when you listen to that album, there's some of the music really slaps. The lyrics are really kind of funny. Yeah. They're meant to be funny. All of that's true. But ultimately, it's very vapid and there's no life to it. There's nothing to it. Like it's not – this is not something to put out. It's literally just – it serves a purpose, and that's it.

[44:15] That first song is like that. But this second one, I gave you some kudos on that one. It's pretty all right. You know, over in our Council Chambers chat, we say this quite a bit, but just to remind everybody, if you are a Council Chambers tier subscriber, you get invited to our recordings. And they've been talking for quite a while through this episode about what this episode actually is about. Brett, we had the assessment that this was a waste of time because Shadow Dancing really did the thing. I think that they agree that Shadow Dancing did the thing, but this, like, you don't just come out of the addiction that he was in. And this is a step on the way. And to that point...

[44:54] One of the things we slammed late delivery from Alvalon for was how quickly dude gets over his thing. Yep, exactly. And then moves on. And the idea that Franklin would just come in one episode, just get over it and be done. Now, I will give the convention, hey, this is TV. We've only got so much time. We've got to get stuff together and then move on. I will give that as a convention, but I am glad that this is something that sticks around for at least several more episodes before it gets resolved. Exactly, which I think is good. I mean, they condensed an entire civil war into two episodes, you know? And so, I mean, we are complaining about the thing we complain about in a real way. But I think on top of like him needing this progress, Texas, Amlishok in the chat, I couldn't agree more, uh, says that what happens here is Franklin is reminded why he became a doctor. He lost that when he lost himself. Oh, interesting. I like that a lot. Yeah. Did you? I did that. Did you have anything else on this you wanted to hit or any messages that you got out of it? There was one from JMS. I wouldn't mind talking. Oh, yeah. He says this. He was asked a question. When is a walkabout a legitimate choice? And when is it just a cop out?

[46:08] He said, when you're more afraid of what you're running to than what you're running from. I thought that was an interesting answer. I'm not going to amend what he said, but there is something that I tend to say, which is. whenever you're leaving a certain situation, You should always be going to something, not running away from something. Right. You know what I mean? Be moving to a new opportunity, not running away from whatever manager I have here now. Like, no, I'm going to get, listen, this thing sucks that I'm in the middle of this, whatever. I've got to get out of here. I'm going to go get a new job. When you get the new job, cool. I've got a new opportunity to go do something now. I think I have a really good friend of mine who is in a relationship transition right now. Yeah. And that's a conversation like that they've had where it's, yeah, I'm leaving this, but it's because I want this thing over here. I want me over here. Yeah. And that's such a healthy way of looking at it. Because when you're leaving the thing, you left. Yeah. Now what do you got? And sometimes you need to leave to get out of a situation that you're in, but you're going to something better. It's really just a way of framing it is really what it comes down to. So I do like that. Yeah. Franklin's journey is not done yet. Right. I will say this.

[47:28] Franklin's walk. This is where titling an episode after something like Walkabout does a huge disservice to the episode. Because Walkabout was only, the Walkabout thing was probably only maybe a third of the episode. Well, to be fair, I'd say the Walkabout was only mentioned. The Walkabout happens in Shadow Dancing. Right. That's very fair. There are so many more important, the new Vorlon ambassador that we get. This whole thing about Kosh having a piece of him gone. Like, that's the mystery, really, of where we're, of what's happening here, right? Right. What lead is able to do to be able to go like the power of Lita with her Vorlon superpowered scything, even though she's just a lonely little P5. Right. Right. You kind of imagine this. This is exactly what would have happened had it been Talia with the Jason Ironheart. Right. Souped up powers. Right. It just they're just giving it to her through a different method. Right.

[48:27] That really is more of what this episode was about. But when you title it Walkabout, that's the thing you focus on for what the episode is. And that's that's rather unfair, I think, to the to the episode, unfortunately, because the Walkabout portion. And OK, let's talk about that for a second. What did Franklin learn outside of remembering why he was a doctor? What did he see in himself? What did he see for himself in meeting this this lady? I think this isn't my own original thought. This was in the council chambers chat as well, but I agree as he was just being patronizing and judgy and all of that. He was talking about himself. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of going through that process of. And I think in our, I think our original interpretation of this episode was not too far off. This was a, he found himself in the person of this lady. Right. Yeah. It just wasn't the himself he needed. He needed first. Or was it? But he didn't need, it wasn't the last one he needed. Something. A little bit of writing and it could have been, but I'm glad that they're going to play something. And Suzanne says she doesn't think that he really learned anything yet and I might disagree with that maybe he didn't learn anything but maybe he should have had the opportunity.

[49:46] I think changes like this happen through pieces series of epiphanies and revelations and pieces of things and this was part of one of them, but I do think ultimately even if he realizes or doesn't realize it He did get a look at himself as an addict and somebody who is chasing drugs. Turns out she was doing it for literally survival reasons.

[50:16] For him, I'm sure it felt more like survival, perceived survival. Yeah. I think over in the chat, Suzanne and I are agreeing with each other. And she put it, what I said, they're learning in pieces. You know what I would actually title this episode? What's that? Shattered pieces.

[50:32] Ooh. Because we get a piece of Kosh. We get pieces of Franklin. We get a shattered shadow ship. like that would I think that would have been better than walkabout it's it's too bad our our time ship is out of out of order right now because we could go back and help that out to refresh the zpm I had one message that I picked up okay and it's a it's a small it's a small one but I think it's powerful check in on people yeah don't wait to have that conversation that you're wanting to have with somebody you think about them pick up the phone that's the whole thing shared so much of this i won't say could have been avoided but could have gone differently, if sheridan just said hey man how you doing like he wanted to do but he didn't you know delin says over in our chat and i think this is actually rather astute part of the lesson is not everything is for him to fix oh my god yeah not everything is for him to fix and i i don't know that this is where delin was going but i'm gonna go with it here he brings lady chicky i forget her name to med lab to get treated and he's not the one who has to treat her right frankly he's not the one who gets to treat her now he kind of has he throws some instructions out there and they'll listen to him or not because he's who he is but ultimately it's dr hobbs and it's somebody else and what has franklin's whole thing been.

[51:55] He has to do this himself. If he's not there, he doesn't do it. It doesn't get done. He has to do it himself. He has to do it. No, no, no, dude. You have a team. You have a team. Very capable team. Yeah, yeah. And you got to let them do it. And I think that's a big piece. I think letting people do things, like that letting go and stuff, is hard to do. And this is, I think it's an important lesson. And we're going to see some of that now as I let go, Brent, and let you take on this incredible responsibility of ranking this episode. It's very heavy. This is where you get to add to the objectively correct, the immutable ranking of all the episodes of the third season of Babylon 5. I get the joy of guessing about where you're going to put it. And this is a tough one.

[52:45] I'm going to pick Lower Middle-ish And I'm going to start at number 12 I'm going to say number 12 We've got Ceremonies of Light and Dark 11 is Matters of Honor, In 10 10th place, A Day in the Strife 4th place, Voices of Authority Actual chicky And then in number 8 We've got Seek Transit of Weir Where, Brent, does a walkabout go Within our top 15 that we have right now So this is going to come down to you two things for me. Okay. One enjoyment of the episode. All right. It's not super high to importance of the episode. And that's a lot higher for me than it was the first time around. Not really because of the Franklin stuff. Right. But really because of the other stuff. Right. So I'm looking. I think you're in the right spot. I'm looking at sick transit beer. I really enjoyed that episode. We're not touching that one. Let's put down voices of authority. Chickie's episode. I, I still enjoyed that episode. I, I really like, I mean, it just speaks to the strength of this season that we're all the way down in the bottom parts of the show. And it's still like, those are strong episodes. Then there's a day in the strife, Matters of Honor. And that's where I'm kind of looking here. And then I look at Ceremonies of Light and Dark, which we just saw not too terribly long ago.

[54:07] And I didn't hate that episode. And then I see Late Delivery from Avalon. And I still didn't hate that episode. I didn't love it. But I'm making a guess, Jeff. On our first watch, Late Delivery from Avalon was bottom. And I think we had a blank space. and then the next one was walkabout is that true i'll tell you after you rank it okay i have it queued up because it is because late delivery fam avalon got a little bit of a glow up on this one it did i think this one's going to get a bit of a glow up depending on where it was in the first one i'm not entirely sure you won't tell me but i don't know that it's going to get as much of a glow, As late delivery from Avalon. Okay. If I put this up against late delivery from Avalon, which one am I going to watch again? Frankly, I think I'm more interested to watch Avalon again. Really? Wow. I think I am. Wow. I think I am. Again, the metaphor. I very much appreciate the metaphor, but also all the other stuff that goes along. Sheer enjoyment. Garibaldi and the post office guy. You know, Knight Jakar. Yes. Is, you know, I think I enjoy that episode more. People are freaking out right now they are i apologize if anybody just crashed their car just know the world has not ended right okay we're all okay this is this is just in that spot but you know as important as all the other stuff was the new kosh and the the lita on the bridge well i think that was all important and that was good to see i don't know that it was enough to overcome.

[55:35] Just the enjoyment. Like, this was an episode. So, to me, this becomes our new number. Oh, gosh, Jeff. Here's the thing.

[55:45] Below Avalon, we have an episode called Exogenesis. We do. I don't mind that. I kind of like that episode. I did, too. Like, it had redeeming qualities. Jeff, this is our new number 15. It's better than Convictions. It's better than Convictions. I'll watch this before Convictions. But I think just in sheer terms of episodes, I enjoyed more. I'll take Exogenesis over this one again. Wow. More so than just because of the music. That's a big part of it. It's also the microphone.

[56:19] That's, yeah, I'm going to place it in my completely accurate definitive ranking at number 15. Wow. Well, you were correct about our first time ranking. 22 is Avalon, blank spot, walkabout number 20. Yeah, I figured that. uh where was convictions where that one wind up was that right above walkabout it was number 17 though goes walkabout in 20 ceremonies of light and dark in 19 okay exogenesis in 18 okay convictions in 17 whoa if you leave exogenesis in stasis right ceremonies and avalon both got big glow ups yeah convictions went down and walkabout's gonna stay in stasis like yeah, wow okay all right yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna leave it there i i think that was a pretty good spot where we had it the first time around um is that to say it's a bad episode no it's not a bad episode but when i compare it to all the others it lands there it's where it's ranked.

[57:22] Yeah, you know, it's interesting and we've even we've explained it a couple of times, but part of the reason that we have the blank spot in the ranking from the first time around is we took the two parter war without end parts one and two and ranked it as one single episode. Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, let me back that up, though. When we did it, didn't we take Avalon when we watched it at episode what, 13 or 14 and immediately put it at 22? Yes. Yeah. And so basically it was just things like blank space. Yeah. We got to the part and we just filled in the blank spaces. And then because we combine it, there what happened to be a, we, we've had the blank space above. Yep. There was an empty space right there. And we're going to find out next week if we do the same thing, because Brent walkabout, we're wrapping up next week or without end. We're going to watch parts one and parts two at the same time together. Yeah. We got, we caught flack last time for not watching them together. We did, but we were super intentional voice in the wilderness. Us this one like what did we say last time first watch watch them separately stop and talk every other thing watch them together yep and here we are so do you remember what you thought the first time we watched war without end jeff that was a phenomenal episode.

[58:39] It was so good. And you know what was so great about it was it dovetailed so cleanly into Babylon Squared. Right. That you almost felt like that's exactly the way that JMS planned it from the beginning.

[58:54] However, that's not how he planned it from the beginning. Nope. But what you like, I think what you see is, is when he did Babylon Squared, he anticipated having Sinclair. And then when Sinclair left and Sheridan comes in, things start to change. I think without this story coming back into play, Babylon Square would have just gone off into oblivion. Yeah, just a thing.

[59:18] But now we connect it back to that episode. And man, I love a good time travel. I'm a sucker for time travel that loops it and doesn't change history, right? And that's exactly what this one does. And it goes back and redefines what we saw. Here's one thing I definitely remember. I remember not caring so much for Jeffrey Sinclair on our first watch. We did not. But when we saw him here. Felt so good. It felt so good. It's like, that's our captain. Captain, my captain. Like, for whatever reason, I cannot explain why we suddenly just loved him. I love Zathras in this episode.

[59:54] I know people get so annoyed at Zathras. I am a big Zathras fan, and I loved having him here in this episode. And we get the explanation of the three versions of the one, the Trinity of the one, which unlocks so much more as we go forward. Does it really unlock that much more? I don't know. We'll talk about that later. But that's what I remember from this episode. I just remember really loving it all the way around. And there's a reason we put it at our number one spot. How about you, Jeff?

[1:00:20] Same. I love this thing. This episode will always stand out for me and our first-time viewers because this was the first of my landmark predictions to come true, and I lost my freaking mind when that happened. But I think – so just as a head, like I've done my scouring of the internet for the stuff that JMS had said. And to your point, the fact that Babylon Squared, he talks a lot about what he had to do to connect the things, even though stuff changed. And it's just – it's incredible what he – and yeah, if you're going to be like we are and others are and be kind of nitpicky, you're like, oh, there's a thing that's not the same. But if you're just watching – Oh, Dylan's hand is in the wrong spot and she's wearing the wrong color clothes. Yeah, it totally goes and it's not at all important at all. This uh will stand for the first time watch is one of my absolute favorite episodes of the entire series it's such a good a good thing and i gotta tell you though jeff i'm really curious where it is going to land on our ranking because i think it's not going to be my my prediction is it's going to rank lower than where we had it the first time okay because while i think it's a phenomenal episode.

[1:01:35] We also know the weight of this episode and what it actually means in the overall story for where we are versus some of the other top episodes right now and what's still to come. And I think it may lose some points for that because of where we know this goes on a second watch. We'll see. Although it's a phenomenal episode. So good. And we're going to find out next week what exactly does happen to it. You don't want to miss that. It's an episode that you want to stay tuned for. So make sure you're subscribed wherever you're watching or you're listening. If you want to see the full and unedited version of it ahead of the time that it releases for everyone else, you can get that on our Patreon page, patreon.com slash badnerds.

[1:02:12] It's in the show notes. If you want to click a link, there's also a ton of other stuff on there as well, including being invited to our recordings if you're at our council chambers tier. The one thing you can do if you really want to help us out, the calling of your heart, is to return. Something to give back to us a little bit is to share the show. And what a great time to share it. Check out War Without End, parts one and two, with these two yahoos who like to watch old sci-fi and have a good time doing it. So until next time, I'm Jeff. Hey, Jeff. Yes, Brent, what's up? You know, Jeff, we put a lot of thought and time and effort and some of our most creative moments into these little outro bits. We do. That's true. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I think I am. Go for it, man.

[1:03:07] Do you remember when you told me you love me? Do you remember when you told me you cared? Now I, standing on the edge of forever, and for the first time, I confess, I'm scared. You sound like a drummer singer.

[1:04:27] I love you, baby, but I will say goodbye. No, you, baby, and I... Oh, are we... You're you. I mean, we're not some deep space franchise. This station is about something. And everybody left, didn't they?