Exogenesis

Jeff: Welcome to Babylon five for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin and I am watching Babylon 5 for the first time.

Brent: And I'm Brent Allen and I'm also watching Babylon five for the first time. Jeff and I are two veterans, star Trek podcasters watching this show Babylon five for the very first time. And in this show, we are applying that over analytical lens that we've acquired as Star Trek podcasters to this show.

Trying to see what kind of messages exist within this show and trying to just figure out how much we lament not watching this show.

Jeff: While this is not a podcast about Star Trek, we are sure to pull those references in because honestly, how, how could we not? But to help us with that, we've decided to limit ourselves and play the, the game we call the rule of three.

That means each one of us gets up to three references to Star Trek per episode, and that's it. No substitutions, exchanges are refund. Hey Brent. Hey Jeff. We have a five star review. Yes. This one is on Audible and it's from Adam. We're on Audible. We always freak out when we get something through Audible.

What's up, Adam

Brent: and Audible?

Jeff: Adam says, great for B five. Vets and newbies, Jeff and Brent have been methodically covering one episode per week since mid 2022. I love the perspective they bring as Star Trek experts who missed the show's original run. Their predictions right and wrong are great fun. I'm really impressed by their discipline in avoiding spoilers.

If you're new to Babylon five, this is a great podcast to follow along with because they will not spoil anything. But if you're already a Babylon five fan, it is thrilling to relive the joy of watching the show for the first time through them.

Brent: Adam, I have no idea what it is to be a, uh, Babylon five veteran watcher, because I'm not that, but, I love that.

You love that people get to watch this along with us for the very first time. And it's Jeff and I's biggest hope that you guys out there who have watched Babylon five before, which is the vast majority of our audience are getting to relive those days when you watched it for the first

Jeff: time. And you know what's wild we have been doing, like, if it's not this week, it's next week as our one year anniversary.

Really?

Brent: Oh my. Cause like I

Jeff: didn't even realize that. Yeah. It was like Memorial Day last year that we started. Oh my God. No, that's like now. Yeah. But I don't, the days change, right? Yeah. That's, you know, that's so much. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's, that's cra It's been a year,

Brent: Jeff. A

Jeff: year. A year. Wow. And we're at just about like, we're, we're just, I mean, I feel like we're getting to the story,

Brent: right?

You know? Yeah. We're just, you're just into it right now is what it feels

Jeff: like. Well, hey, let's not get off this train. Brent, we have another five star review. Oh, yes. This one is off of Apple Podcasts and Kiel says, love these first time viewing shows, and I'm glad there's such a good one for B five. Huh? I kind of miss B five.

Mm-hmm. .

Brent: Well, Kiel, here's the good news. You can relive it with us right here on this show, and, uh, you can go through it, you can watch the episodes with us, Jeff. You know, one of the, the big fears that I have for folks out there Yeah. Because I know I've been in, in this shoe as a, as a, um, listener before it's really easy to get into a show like this and be like, okay, I'm gonna watch along with them.

I'm gonna watch this episode, and then I'm gonna listen to their show and then I'm gonna watch the episode. I'm gonna listen to their show and. Life happens and you miss the episode, or maybe it's just an episode you didn't really care for very much. And so you don't, and then you miss, like you put off listening to the podcast because you haven't watched the episode this week.

And then the next thing you know, the next week comes by and you don't have time to like go back and rewatch both of them. And so you get out of sync with the show and all of a sudden it piles up and it, and it backs up. And then you wind up falling away from the show because you're trying to keep up with it because you've added on this other thing.

You know what the great thing is? And every single one of these episodes, we'll give you guys a recap as far as what happened in the show. So if you are watching along and you find yourself getting out of sorts and you find yourself getting behind, just jump in because we'll remind you exactly what happened in the episode.

Don't fall behind and stay with us.

Jeff: That's the easy way to do it. Don't fall behind. But you're right, if you do do, don't feel that pressure. That pressure's the worst, that self-imposed. Yeah. We'll be here for you week after we're putting that on yourself. Fine. Yeah.

Brent: We're not putting that on you.

Jeff: You're putting that on yourself,

Yeah. Well, that's what I had this week to share some awesome reviews. All right, well

Brent: that's the end

Jeff: of the show then, right? And we'll see, uh,

Brent: you

Jeff: actually hit the button. Yeah, I

Brent: did. I did. I'm, I'm, uh, Jeff, you know what, uh, along with, uh, the game of the rule of three that we play here and along with getting to hear some reviews and feedback from our, our friends out there, um, and by friends, I mean people we've never, ever met before in our life, but they've discovered us out there and now they're.

We like to play another game. Now, this game usually happens at the end of the episode where we take a look at the next week's episode. All that we've seen is the title. We've never seen anything beyond that point. We only see the title. We make a guess as far as what that episode's gonna be about. This is the point where it's time to pay the piper.

It's time to look back at last week's prediction about this week's episode and see just how close we were. So Jeff, do you remember what you said Exogenesis was gonna be about and how close were you?

Jeff: I sure do. Exogenesis I was talking about is the theory that life on earth actually originated somewhere else and made its way to earth over time.

So I thought we were gonna get a first one's recruitment mission and we were gonna learn about the first ones in the volans. Interactions with like early, early humanity could not possibly. Why not say there's some. Old stuff, you might be a little closer than you think. Yeah. Little older stuff going on there.

Yeah. But not necessarily, not necessarily their, um, their inclusion as angels and gods in, in humanities past. What about you? Right? What did you guess? So

Brent: ultimately I said this was gonna be the origin story of the shadows, or at least like their buggy ships. And I said that because the word exogenesis made me think of the word exoskeleton.

And exoskeletons exist on bugs. I got bugs. You did. I nailed bugs. But as far as the origin story of the shadows, that absolutely did not happen. However, the whole point of these bugs is to be able to tell people about what has happened throughout all of this past. So maybe I didn't get the origin story.

The shadows, but I got the origin story of the people who are going to give us the origin story of the shadows. So I'm gonna at least take a half a point on that one. Yeah. And I say I get a point and a half cuz I got bugs and I got origin stories of origin stories. I, and they're way back cuz I do think this is a f like are these bugs?

We'll, we'll get into that. Yeah. How, what are they exactly? We'll, we'll talk about that. Well, Jeff, uh, you know, just a few minutes ago I was just talking, uh, and saying, Hey guys, listen, if you didn't get a chance to watch the episode, we're gonna tell you what the episode was about. And Jeff, this week it's on you, my friend.

Why don't you let us know, let the folks out there know baby people who, uh, haven't seen this episode in a while. Or maybe they're watching along with us and they just missed this week's episode. Or maybe they've never seen the show at all and they're just listening to our show. Anyway, tell the folks out there what Exogenesis really was about.

Jeff: Hey, it's promotion time. The bartender at Earhart's announces that everyone's second favorite background character in the C N C Behind season one. The jump gate is activating Lady David Corwin is getting a promotion to full lieutenant Hooray. Every, everyone is there to celebrate except for Marcus, because Ivanova didn't think that having him there would be a very good idea.

In speaking of not very good ideas, Sheridan is worried that with his promotion, Corwin could expose the pro anti Earth movement that he's kind of pulled together through General Hague, huh? Well, I guess, I guess that means that in Babylon, five ranks actually define your level of responsibility in your job.

How weird. I'm not used to that in sci-fi. Well, Sheridan asks Ivanova to feel this guy out and see if he's gonna be a problem or not, and we have a Marcus Siding. He's hanging out and down below Macon, friendly with the shopkeepers and showing us all how well-read he is. Even cool, old dude. Duncan is a little tired of Marcus quoting Mc, but I mean, sorry, the Scottish play still, Marcus is making nice with the people getting updates from his contacts and you know, due and Ranger stuff that Rangers do.

Down below. One of his contacts says the Rangers have been ordered away from Earth by Ranger one because of the mess there, and another one of his contacts has stopped showing up to work altogether. Apparently he has more important things to do. I wonder if those important things have anything to do with the dead dude laying in Med Lab.

Franklin is doing an autopsy on this guy that's been living in down below for a few years. He had some trace drugs in his system. Probably one of the guys forgot some of the dust from last week's episode, and a weird kind of sorta parasitic life form has wrapped around and entwined itself around his spine.

Well, Marcus, his buddy, the old ShopKeep Duncan, is missing and after striking out with Garabaldi, he gets Dr. Franklin to help him out by using a masterful, masterful execution of the English language. They end up down below captured by a group of lurkers, including Marcus's old contact that said he had more important things to do.

They have Duncan and some other dude laying on the ground recovering from the trill joining ceremony. Turns out that the thing wrapped around dead dude's spine is a life form called the Rii Med Lab Guy died in adjoining because of the drugs in his system. Franklin and Marcus are completely freaking out.

These parasites are controlling the people and they suspect a conspiracy two down. But the one in Duncan is failing two probably because of his poor health. They get Franklin to doctor him, and Marcus uses that as an opportunity to escape. Ready to kick some lurker butt. The main Van Drei dude in Duncan explain that the people, the hosts volunteered to be joined.

The aliens have a mission spanning half a million years to collect and store the history of the galaxy, saving it through the coming dark ages. They've seen things that no one could even imagine. And to prove that it's voluntary and the rii are cool after he is healthy. Duncan has his symbian removed from him.

Franklin agrees this is a noble mission and then agrees to help them, but only after he can analyze the Rii and talk to the volunteer hosts. They're totally cool with that. In C N C asked Corwin to come to recorders to discuss his future. He's a little confused thinking that she might be asking him out for a date, but he also isn't sure, but he doesn't wanna be wrong either, so he buys some expensive synthetic roses and goes to meter immediately.

It is clearly not a date, and he plays off the roses as something he found lying outside her door. She asks him like, I don't know, like two questions and he answers the way any dutiful soldier would initially respond to their superior officer. So she writes him off as not being cool with the pro anti Earth group.

Marcus sees Duncan to a ship. He's taking him out to explore the galaxy. He's got a renewed life. He wants to experience some of the amazing things that he saw with the alien inside of him. Marcus is gonna miss him, but he wishes him well. Franklin is hanging out with our crew and hints to Ivanova. Marcus doesn't just like her, but he thinks he likes her.

Likes her infuriated. She finds him at a bar in what looks like the spot that Veer and Lanier used to meet all the time. She blast the roses under the bar next to him, leaving him with the impression that she's saying there's a chance. So Brent, what were your initial reactions to Exogenesis?

Yeah,

Brent: this episode was conspiracy from T N G, right? Yeah. A hundred percent . Like, that's, that's exactly what those was. Um, no, here, I'm gonna jump all the way down to the end of my notes. This is what I said. This episode is what that episode infection from season one should have been. Oh, wow. Okay. You know, um, is this a great episode?

Probably not. I think, I think when we come down to the end of our rankings, this'll probably find itself in the lower half, maybe upper part of lower half, because I didn't think it was a bad episode. I was, I was, um, intrigued. I was grossed out in some of the, in with some of the, the effects in the scenes, particularly dealing with the bugs.

But, um, Jeff thi this isn't gonna make any sense to you.

I was like, are the, first of all, I was like, okay, so these guys are the guys from Conspiracy and T N G. Um, but oh wait, maybe they're the Gould. Oh wait, maybe they're Tora from Stargate SG one. And then I was like, did Stargate steal its people? It its whole idea from Babylon five, like DS nine supposedly did like, like I was, I was like, whoa, what are these guys?

And at the end of the day, I think that this is gonna be season three's, geometry of shadows. Okay. I think it'll be an episode that when we get further down the road, I don't know that we need to get all the way to the end, but just further down the road, we'll understand this episode in a different light and things that happen in this episode.

We'll see what it's foreshadowing and what it's what it's mean. We will understand things in a different way as you come back and watch this episode later on. . Um,

my fear is we're never gonna see these bugs again. Right? Because the whole thing is there's, they're like they said it, we're the ones who are gonna tell you what's what. Yeah. You know? And I mean, these bugs are old, but they said they were created, so who created 'em? And there's, there's questions I think that we have coming out of this.

My fear is these are gonna be the next techno majors. We're just never gonna see 'em

Jeff: again. I still think we're gonna see them. I still see, you still think we're seeing the techno majors? I

Brent: don't

Jeff: think so. I think they're gonna, they'll be the cavalry that comes in. I'm hoping Don't hold I

Brent: hopes, Hey, listen, if this is the end of the Avengers end game, when you know, hey, on your left and all of a sudden the holes open up and everybody we've seen for five seasons comes flooding through.

Awesome. I'll go watching a movie theater and get chills up and down my. I don't think it's gonna happen. Don't. Jeff? Jeff, what about you? What'd you think of this episode? Exogenesis? Yeah,

Jeff: I thought it was an okay episode. You know, I mean, I, I liked it better on my first watch through than my second watch through, like, on my second one, I was just, a lot of it was just like, yeah, okay.

Got it. Got it. Yeah. Get to the thing. Get to the thing. But it was interesting. It was kind of cool. I liked seeing Marcus just do Ranger stuff. You know, we talked a, a little while ago about like, what does Kar do all day now that he is not an ambassador? And I think we've had this idea of like, what do the Rangers do?

But we saw it uhhuh, like they could talk to people and they develop contacts and they're doing espionage and being cool to people. But I, I think the aliens like the Rii, what a cool idea. I, that same question. Who created them? Why? And, and how will they play into the future? I, what I want to think is that we'll see 'em again at some point when there's.

they hit a wall and then they have to get the history lesson. You know, they need the history lesson that's older than the volans. Right. Sort of a thing to go back and give 'em stuff. But no, it was fun. It was an okay episode that if it came up again, like, eh, I don't know if I'd really be into it. I think if anything, like two of my big takeaways out of it is Marcus is great.

He's a fun character. Yeah. That I really enjoy, and I am a hundred percent convinced that he and Ivanova are totally gonna hook up. Now I

Brent: will, I will say this, um, I absolutely hope that Marcus and Ivanova turn into a will. They won't they type ongoing joke, you know, like, yeah, like Ava's like, no, no, no, I'm not interested in Marcus and chasing.

Then Marcus is gonna find him somebody, and then Ava's gonna be like, actually no, he's not so bad. And she's gonna go try to run off this other girl, and then she's gonna. not be interested. You know, they're just gonna go, it's, it's a Ross and Rachel type thing, right? Yeah. Like, it's gonna be that sort of a deal.

I, I, uh, a Lowe's and Clark type, like, I just, that's what kind of where I want to see this particular, uh, relationship go. Um, but I'm with you. You know, I, I have what I call laundry episodes in sci-fi, right? Yeah. You're doing laundry, you're sitting there folding laundry or whatever. Um, for those of you kids out there, when you, when you finish drying your clothes or having them up on the rack, you, you're actually supposed to fold them and put them back in your drawers or on your shelves, rather than just pick them out of the laundry basket.

Jeff: Oh wait for your parents to make them magically appear in your closet? Yes. Wow. How'd they even get here?

Brent: Yeah. There's no such thing as magical little elves that come through and do your laundry

Jeff: for you. I would pay real big money if there was like, I would give them cash

Brent: if I could have a house elf.

Yeah. Oh, I would, I I would, I would pay them, except that would probably f them. So I'll have them run, but I treat 'em so good.

Jeff: Totally. They're gonna fold my laundry. So good. That is the, that is the worst. Yeah.

Brent: They're gonna, but if you're gonna watch my house, come behind me and pick up, especially with my kids and stuff here.

Oh my

Jeff: gosh. Yeah. It'd be great. But if you gotta watch something while you're folding laundry and doing that horrible thing. Yeah.

Brent: Look, this, so, so this is an episode that I would be flipping through the channels and I would see it and I'd stop and I'd go, oh yeah, it's this episode. But when it got to commercial break, I would change the channel.

Okay. And go see what else is on. And if I didn't find anything else, I'd come back. But if I did find something else, I'd stay there. That's this kind of an episode for me. You know, like there's others that like, oh, this is on, I'm watching this episode. You know, um, this is, uh, I'll watch it until the commercial break and then I'll go try to find something else.

Jeff: Type an episode. Yeah. I like the character Duncan quite a bit, and I thought it was cool, just the, just the idea that Marcus, Marcus hangs out with these people, you know? Yeah. But Marcus

Brent: is supposed to be laying low and Marcus seems to know everybody. Uhhuh on the station. .

Jeff: Well, I think that's the balance, right?

There's the laying low is not being seen with Sheridan and with Ivanova and Garabaldi, even though he's literally arguing with Garabaldi in the open. Like basically just, I'm working hard here to get contacts to fight this evil thing and you're getting down, jumping down my throat. Come on. Right, right.

But outside of that, like, I think his job is to know everybody and know everything that's going on.

Brent: Well, speaking of knowing everybody and knowing everything that's going on, uh, ranger one. That's one Jeffrey Sinclair, a hundred percent. Totally. Yeah, that's, I like getting a Sinclair reference without getting a Sinclair reference.

Like

Jeff: that's, but you gotta think about it too, how it's Sinclair. Totally. He's Ranger one in there. But we haven't talked about how all this earth stuff has gotta be impacting him. He's still an official Earth representative on Minbar. Is he though? I think so. We would've heard other

Brent: ones. I mean, canceled him.

Do you think he's really going anywhere and changing anything that he's doing?

Jeff: Well, he would just, he would just change whatev, you know, oh, earth isn't paying for this apartment for me now I'm gonna go live in this one that the Rangers are paying for me to live in now. Like, the Minbar are just gonna let me stay here.

It's okay. Yeah, it would just most changes address. But I think, I think, you know, when they said they're pulling them from Earth and Marcus is like, yeah, tell me something, you know, I don't know. Come on, dude. Mm-hmm. . It's honestly a pretty big deal because the point of the Rangers is to be the eyes and ears of Sinclair.

You know, of Ranger one doing stuff and he's saying, no, it's too dangerous for me to even have eyes and ears there at this point.

Brent: Right. Um, so Marcus only has a thing for Ivanova. Yeah. Ivanova throws these flowers in his face thinking they're from him. It just says Keep 'em. Ivan's got an issue with Marcus.

Yeah. And I think I know what it is. Okay. I think it's the fact that he pronounces her name.

Jeff: Ava. Ava. That's the, that's the worst

Brent: that's people want to give us person. I Nova way back then, you

Jeff: know, like, yeah. She's like, let's know, that's not, I loved when she was taking those roses to him though, and like had like marching, like total Army beat and she's.

Bee lining to it. You're like, she, she's not just gonna throw the roses at him, she's gonna stab him right in the face like he is . Yeah. She was furious with that, but she was hilarious. The whole rose thing was, uh, well,

Brent: the, the whole asking dude out on a date, but she didn't like, she didn't, but she did, and she had to have known what she was doing.

Yvanova's not that stupid,

Jeff: but I think, here's the thing, and I, and, and this is, this is a 2023 question of a 1996 episode right here. Okay. If that was Sheridan asking him to come to his quarters and talk about the, you know, his future and what he sees himself doing down the, down the road, would he have even made the assumption it was gonna be a date?

Like how often do women in authority have to deal with this? Where it's like, Hey, It's my job as your superior officer to help develop you and write like a development plan. Okay. You know, or

Brent: whatever. Yeah. But here's the thing. If Sheridan had been the one to say it, okay, let's assume that it's completely platonic.

Sheridan would've bro him up when he is like, elk. So, should we meet, like for breakfast? No, no, no. That's too private. Why don't you just come by my place and we'll hang out. We'll grab a couple beers, we'll, whatever. And we'll just talk and just kind of get to know each other a little bit. And that's it.

Like, maybe he'd, he'd, he'd a bro, like he, he'd, uh, he'd, uh, un unless he was actually hitting on him, and then he would've hit on him. But the way of Vava approached this, and I get it, this was written for a laugh. It was portray, but it was such a betrayal of who Ivanova is as a character. I, I really, while I smiled and chuckled at it, I really hated it for her.

Because it just, it it, she played this whole role, like she was either an idiot or she was a genius cuz she was doing it on purpose, except she wasn't supposed to be doing it on purpose. The whole like, oh, where'd these flowers come from? Oh. Oh gosh. These are just, these are just ridiculous. Oh, synthetic.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, but it is romantic and I do love it and I, you know, like she's just, uh,

Jeff: it was not a good look for her. It was betrayal of her. Yeah. You know, I think everything leading up to them being together in the, in their quarters was not a good look for her. She knows better. She, she's a commander.

She's had people reporting to her in the past. Yeah. She should know how to do this. And then when they're sitting down having the coffee. Right. That's great. Awesome. You know? Mm-hmm. get a little common ground and then she, she literally asks them like, Hey, if somebody. If somebody said, somebody

Brent: said something wrong, would you turn 'em in?

Yeah. Uh, yeah.

Jeff: And then she's like, oh, well shoot you, you're, you're bad news. Then what in God's name was he supposed to say? Like, first off, he's like, great pivot on his part where he's like, oh, this is not a date. Okay. No, I don't, I don't know what these oranges, I mean, smooth as silk. Right, right. I love too, with the florist, where , he's like, if it is a date, I don't wanna screw it up.

Like, this is awesome. Yeah. But if it's not a date, that's cool too. I don't wanna look like an idiot.

Brent: like, well, that, that florist was like, the only time flowers aren't appreciated is when you don't get them. Yeah. And I was like, this dude is a good a salesman. Oh my gosh. He's so good at his job. Yeah,

Jeff: it was awesome.

He's also, a core one was like 16 feet taller than that floor is. Right? That was weird. But, but so, you know, it makes, he's, he's on it. He's pivoting, he's paying attention to every nuance of what's going on. He knows what's, you know, I mean, this is a big deal. The commander having you in for coffee, and then she literally asks him two questions that he answers exactly as he should have.

And then she's like, mm, nope. Now that was not a good look for her either. Like, she should have been able to, it's not a good look.

Brent: Yeah. No. Where this, where this really needed to go. And we, to be fair, we have, well, I guess we did this needed to be a group setting. Hey, you who just got a promotion? Come hang out, come hang out at our poker game.

Come hang out at dinner that the captain is making in his quarters with the whole command staff. Like, let's put you in this. I need to buzz on that because I totally, you might even gimme two cuz it was two different references. Uh, but

Jeff: also there, there, there are references, but they're also just literally good, like good leadership and group dynamic things to do.

So yeah, those are straight from Star Trek, but also,

Brent: yeah, a hundred percent. Like, but that's what you do. It, it, it gets into a group situation. You invite them into the group and Sheridan needs to be the one really feeling that out. But I get, I get it. He's trying to give Ivanova this, uh, this is a b plot.

They're trying to write something that's funny. Ha ha ha. Um, I get it. I just did not appreciate it for Ivanova. Um, or, or, uh, Claudia Christensen and uh uh, What, what she has brought to that role. Like I, I think it was a dumbing down of Ivanova. It really was. Uh, and, and I, I hated that. But it was, it was funny.

It got played

Jeff: for laughs. Yeah, it was funny. I think it short sold her, I think it short sold Corwin as well. Yeah. I mean, God, he could be the perfect guy, but there's, yeah, it just, yeah. Wasn't well done. But if, if the whole point was to get a laugh and to introduce us to Corwin mission accomplished. Sure,

Brent: sure.

You know the one person you can't invite to that dinner though is Ensen Kim. Cuz he'd be pissed.

Jeff: What do you mean he's a lieutenant?

Brent: How does you mean? He got a promotion.

Jeff: God and his jobs changing. Like, or, or even Tom Paris. Hey, am an, I'm a lieutenant, doesn't matter. I got the same job and we don't have money, so it doesn't even make a difference.

Brent: But hey, you know what? We got an answer to a question that we raised just last week, John. Yeah, that's good. What would happen if everybody's off station? Who takes command? And you correctly said, well, there's that one dude who gets a couple lines every once in a while. Turns out

Jeff: it's him. That's the one when Sheridan and Ivanova go off to talk about him.

He, she's like, Hey, you've got it, man. And, and it was really cool. Like the camera stayed there for like two seconds of him just like in front of the controls of just like, yeah, I can do this now. And I think it was, I, I didn't realize he was a lieutenant Junior grade. No. Who now I know now he's lieutenant.

Is is that command level? I don't know. Who knows? But he, he run

Brent: commander, but he can still, you know, take the con, so to speak. Mm-hmm. . Exactly. You know? Um,

okay. Can we talk about Franklin, I suppose, can we talk about how much of a nerd Franklin is like an utter nerd now? I don't know if biology was supposed to be a euphemism for the word sex.

Jeff: I don't think so. I, I don't think it was, I

think

Brent: it was everything comes down to biology or math. It's like, shut up and I have a PhD.

I don't want you at both of them. This table leave, go to another table.

Jeff: I'll even show you my PhD. I brought it with me. I've got it right here. I got a PhD.

Brent: N an md. Yeah. I'm a double, double call me Doctor.

Jeff: Doctor, yeah. Dr. Dr. Franklin. One in math, one in one in in medical biology. It's what I

Brent: can do. Oh my God.

He's just, he's such a nerd. Although he got, he got my biggest laugh out of the whole episode. Uh, it's during the autopsy, which, I'm sorry. Did you also notice this? He has the gloves on when he's cut into the dude. Yeah. And he is got blood all over his gloves. Right. And then he picks up this pristine, clear plastic thing to put the thingy in.

Yeah. None of that blood transfers to the plastic thingy at all. You know, I just, I. It's makeup. It is what? It's, but nothing transferred to the, the plastic thing. But my favorite moment, and this is, I dunno why this is so stupid. The, the corpse is laying there on the table like this, and he is, he's just going through, he is touching, he's looking at him and as he's like pulling back, he shuts the corpse's

Jeff: eyes.

Oh really? Yeah, he, he, he's, he

Brent: just and he just keeps, and he just moves on with his deal. I don't know why that struck me as so funny, but like, I'm even sitting there thinking about the actor who is playing that corpse who's laying there, is gotta have his eyes open. Like, this is a moment of direction.

Where's like, okay, he is gonna, he's

Jeff: gonna close your eyes. Oh, I guess I can do this now. It was, it was just a good

Brent: little chuckle. I was like, that's ridiculous. And probably nobody out there is, everybody out there is listening like, why shut up,

Jeff: Brent. I never caught that. My laugh with him was when, uh, they were locked up and Marcus was asking about Ivanova and he's just like, are.

Are you serious right now? , like there's dudes out there with guns and you're asking me about ivanova. You're gonna, we're gonna talk about this.

Brent: Yeah. Because Marcus is awesome and he doesn't care about the guys with guns. He'll take care of them. He

Jeff: needs some help with his love life. Exactly. This is not a big deal.

Like that whole thing where he is like, there's three guys with guns out there, what are we gonna do? And Marcus is like, yeah, we get rid of one of 'em. And then there's only one guy with a gun. Right. It's not my math. Well, I come from a much more interesting place than

Brent: you did. Although, was it, was this the scene that Mark, because he was trailing Dr.

Franklin, where he, he, he brought in the Christmas Carol Bob or, uh, Jacob Marley

Jeff: reference. He did that with Garib Baldi when he was Oh, that's Gar Baldi.

Brent: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right, that's right. Uh, I, I like that one. Um, oh, oh no. Actually I, no, I'm sorry. My biggest laugh, I have to take that back.

Was Marcus talking about

Jeff: Duncan? Duncan,

Brent: yeah. The shot. And he guy, he, he's, uh, or maybe it was somebody else and he goes, something's gotten into him. I was like, yeah, I did, didn't it?

Jeff: I see what you did there. I see that.

Brent: Um, yeah. Anyway,

Jeff: yeah. Richard Biggs. Richard Biggs was great in this episode. Like Franklin, Franklin was okay.

I think, I think Franklin showed us, he's a competent doctor in this episode. But Richard Biggs was great. I think really every time he's doctored, like there was that, uh, and now for a word when he was like, did a one shot of him doing triage and telling people what's going on, and he's just nailing it.

And that autopsy, like he's rattling all this stuff off, just pulling dude's eyes shut, like you said, super smooth. He's, he gets a lot of those real quiet things that, that just really make him legit.

Brent: Yeah. I, listen, I didn't hate Franklin in this episode. Yeah, yeah. That's fair. You know, he, he was fine. I, I did find, um, and this might have been more of the direction, Uh, you know, from the director, uh, when the computer is going through and like finds the anomaly and like it starts listing off and he goes, hold up.

What was the anomaly? I'm like, no, no, no. That you catch that the first time. It says that. And you're like, show you don't, you shouldn't have to tell the computer to show you. The noes just goes, no, this is fine. This is fine. One anomaly detected, boom, here it

Jeff: is. Yeah, because it was just gonna keep going. I feel like Babylon five has the worst computers ever.

Uhhuh because especially when he is like, yeah, we're gonna analyze this sample, and then Marcus comes in, he is like, Hey, Garabaldi said I should talk to you about this. Let's, let's go. His interest is so indescribable. Yeah, but Guba I'm sorry, go ahead. I was gonna say but the point where he's like, yeah, just take an hour, just take an hour to go look at this.

And he is like, well the computers will take at least that long. What ? Like what kinda machines are you running? This is 96. There were Pentiums at this point. Like, come on. Right.

Brent: Um.

Jeff: What was I gonna say? Garabaldi

Brent: Garabaldi. So Garabaldi had one of those scenes in this episode where he's talking on the monitor mm-hmm.

right? Jeff? I, I, these, these scenes have not gotten any better since season one. Like I, there, there, the one ride that I'm specifically reminded of is the Fast and the Furious Ride at Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida. They have the movie stars up on the screen talking to the guy, the physical person who's right there at the ride.

And it's, you know, they've timed it out what they're saying so that they can feel like they're talking back and forth to each other. Mm-hmm. . But it's so like, clearly it's just off and it's clearly made that way. That's what every single one of these video calls feels

Jeff: like to. I wanna know, like from the technical standpoint, how Star Trek does these video calls compared to how Babylon Five does them.

Because it's a night and day difference and, and not even like modern, like all the way back to the original series through all of Star Trek. When they're talking on a screen to somebody, it feels, it feels very real. It just, it feel

Brent: Well, I mean, it feels like you and me. Yeah.

Jeff: Like right now talking right here.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. It makes sense. Battle on 500% of the time it's dude in front of an old handy cam with a VHS tape stuck inside of it recording his lines and then them playing back and hoping that they can time it. Like due to the fast and furious ride. Yeah. It's not, it is not well done. Right.

I liked Marcus though, like, you know, he, and he and Franklin together weren't a bad couple, but Marcus through the whole thing, kinda like you said. Um, Quoted the Dickens stuff, you know, to Garrett Baldy, and then he is quoting Shakespeare to Duncan. And I feel like big part of what we were supposed to get out of this is like, Marcus is a very, he's very academic.

He's very well-read, but he's also cool. Where's he got Franklin, who's super academic and super smart, but he's just a jerk and a nerd. But you put 'em together, they're not a bad duo. Like they worked pretty well together.

Sure.

Brent: Yeah. I, I thought I, I was, no, I, I mean, yeah, they can, they can play off each other just fine, just fine. You know, you know who I haven't seen together in a while and I really want to see them like just playing off each other is Garabaldi and Ivanova. Remember when they used to just like cut on each other in those first bunch of episodes?

Way back in season one?

Jeff: You were convinced that they were gonna hook up like they were. Yeah. Yeah, because, but

Brent: they were like, they were like brother and sister the way they were poking at each other. And that's not been the case. I mean, really for two and a half seasons at this point, Jeff and I want it back because I liked those two together.

Jeff: Yeah. We get the Sheridan Ivan of Va Garibaldi Triangle sometimes, but Yeah. We don't get the the, we get the Sheridan Ivanova pair off Yeah. To get the Sheridan Garabaldi pair off. Yeah. But yeah, we're totally missing that one. Right, right. With the, the last note I have on my stuff with Marcus was when he was doing his business with his, his contacts, there were the two notes, right.

Rangers leaving Earth and then the shadows building a border along Tari space. Yeah.

Brent: Now is this, that was something, I mean this was what Morden and um, uh, Londo were talking about when they kind of severed relations. Right.

Jeff: That's because he kinda drew that line in on his, on his PowerPoint presentation.

Yeah. It's like, you get this, we get this, but it, it, it really strikes me that they're building a border there of ships. Like, is this a defensive posture or are they getting ready to launch on the cent, or is it totally unrelated and they're just a build up of forces.

Brent: Yeah. I, I mean, well, what also gets me is the idea that how are they,

how are people seeing the shadows build up a force along the border, right? Like, because that means that we have to know who you are and that we have to be able to recognize you, and that this is not being done in secret, but we're seeing what you are doing. I,

Jeff: that's, I, that's what the Rangers do. Like the rangers understand what the shadows are.

They've got a little more insight, right? They can see some of that. So they're out patrolling and they see these things maybe, but

Brent: what's the border like? So if the shadows are supposed to be secret, nobody really knows that they're, that they're out there, right? Like that. That was the whole thing with the Lynn.

It was like, oh, we can't let 'em know that we're here yet. That we know that they're there yet. Well, what is their space? What is the border? You know, like unless the edge of Sonari space, should they know that that's the edge of Sonari space? Like should everybody else realize that's the edge? Cuz isn't this deal just between Sonari and the shadows?

Yeah, but I

Jeff: also think that, well, yeah, cuz I mean what is the shadow space? Like what is that? Right. Un, unless the Rangers have a copy of the PowerPoint, you know, that shows. Shows the border. . I mean, maybe it's just the outer rim, like there's tari the border that they've declared. That's the thing that a lot of sci-fi kind of has that gets really weird is when they start talking about borders.

You know, oh, we're, we're heading into such and such space, or this is the neutral zone between our, our, you know, places. I think we've talked a little bit about geography and space and how like, I, I don't understand it. It's three dimensional, it's all weird. That's why you get a quadrant 37. Cuz it's a, it's volume and not a, not a graph paper thing.

Like, okay cool. Got it. But yeah, how do you track a border and how do you, yeah. How do you, how do you, how do you do that? And then how do they, yeah. How do they amass a border without people noticing them, even if it is the sonari? Right. Because some centar know Lando knows who they are. Lord Refa knows who they are cuz they've been Morden's been dealing with him.

But what about just like, I'm Sonari Alpha Pilot one out on patrol. There's some hu some freaking huge black ships over here, should somebody be concerned. Holy crud.

So let's talk about the bugs. The bugs. The

Brent: bugs. So

here's what we've got. The bugs are over half a, did he say billion

Jeff: or million? I got million 500,000 years old. Okay,

Brent: so they're over half a million years old. And they were created by whom? Jeff by whom? To record and carry the memories of all of history so that when the universe plunges itself into another dark age, the people can return to these guys and be taught what they've already.

And remember what they have already learned. And they say that when that comes, you guys are gonna come and we're gonna be here to tell you this, but in order to do so, they've gotta go between their parasites, that they gotta go between host, to host to host, uh, to to live. But the host are supposedly willing to take this on.

And it's a pretty sweet deal. They get life, health, knowledge, uh, extra long life, and they get a full-time friend to share their body with.

Yeah. What's the problem? Cause that's pretty much it, right? Yeah. Like that's, that's what we got.

Jeff: It seems great. You know, and I think, and I think Frank Franklin saw that at the end, you know, and he is like, cool, I'm good with this. I want to, I want to examine you. I want to get statements from the volunteers.

Like, I want to vet this, right? But it's cool, but it also, and we don't have enough of the story to know anything about this, but why didn't they walk in. Go to Captain Sheridan and say, hi, we're emissaries from this group that does this thing and here's how our stuff, like why hide it and try and sneak around.

Maybe that's part of what they do. I don't know, but it just, cuz they, they like every, they were straight up evil, bad conspiracy aliens all the way up until the point they got Franklin to start working on, I think it was Duncan who was, you know, not doing well with, uh, with the parasite, with the, with the rii in it.

As soon as they got D Duncan working on it, and then Marcus came and then they're like, Hey, so actually it's totally cool. Like, we're doing this awesome thing. Everybody hears a willing part, like why didn't they lead with that? Right. I thought that would've been cool. I, I, I also found interesting that, so they said that they do die.

Over time. And that's why they gotta jump from host to host. Like that kind of reinvigorates them. And according to Franklin, they can exist in any life form. Right? So it's not just that they need humans or anything. I missed that one. I missed that part. Okay. During the, uh, during the autopsy says that they're a hundred percent neuro neurologically neutral and can exist within any life form.

And then he says, this doesn't line up with any parasite that we've ever, ever studied before. And I wondered too, cuz when he pulled like the spiny thing, the little wiggly thing off of the dead guy's spine, that started moving and activated. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was like, is that alien dead? Can they kinda regenerate or respond?

Are the memories stored there? I have a lot of really technical questions about these Rii and I, which is a big reason why I hope we see 'em again. Like I wanna underst, I wanna know who made them and why. And when they talk about the dark ages, are they talking about our coming shadow war? Is that, is that, did they know half a million years ago that this was coming?

And how did they know that? Well, I

Brent: mean, I th that's the idea that's the mo of the shadows, is they keep trying to come back and because they've never actually been destroyed, they've just been halted. As soon as they like regather their forces and regather their strength, they're back again. And, you know, you know that they're gonna keep coming back until somebody actually defeats them.

Mm-hmm. , and maybe that's how they figure out how to defeat the, the how to actually defeat the shadows. Yeah. Is, okay, so tell us what people have done before in the past. Okay. So let's learn from everybody else and try to figure out how to beat them now. Like, because it really

Jeff: is, it really is that difference between.

Tribal knowledge, you know where they tell the story. Mm-hmm. Over and because that's like, that's what Kasha is gonna bring. That's what Dalen Right. Is gonna bring the stories that have been told time and again, they're bringing the actual observations, like they've got the real lived experiences. Yeah.

First firsthand accounts here. Right. Exactly. That's why I think we will see them again at some point where like they Sheridan or somebody's like, we need to know, like, this isn't working, we're losing, we need one last effort. And it has to count. Franklin, remember those dudes? There's those dudes. They know everything.

Reach out to them. I could see that's, that's where they come back.

Brent: I hope they come back. I don't think they will, but I hope they do. Like I'm, I'm with you. I really want them. I just, I feel like yeah, they're gonna be a one and

Jeff: done. We're not gonna see 'em again. Like the, the, the lasting things in this episode were the two pieces dropped by the Ranger, right?

That yeah, Rangers are leaving earth and the shadows are building up a border. Like those are the carry on things and then they'll be the Yvonne Van Marcus stuff a little bit. But yeah, so

Brent: these guys are a thing. They are, uh, that's what I kind of got outta this episode as a whole, Jeff.

Jeff: Same. And

Brent: I think, okay, so these guys are a thing.

Yeah,

Jeff: here they are. Awesome. You know, we got you guys, we got techno majors, we got soul hunters. We got these things that are out there. Sole hunters, again, don't you shut your mouth. We don't want to see them again. , we even speak them into existence. be fine. Never seen them. But I dunno about you, Brent. But I think it's, we've reached that part of the show where it's time to boil this all down.

See if the show has any of that star treky equality to it. Maybe it has a deep moral message or it's holding up a mirror to society or giving us hope. That will be better in the future somehow. We're gonna do this by me rating the episode on a scale of zero to five Deltas as to how star treki it is with the message.

And Brent, you're gonna rate this one on a scale of zero to five star series as to how much we enjoyed the episode and just how Babylon five it is. And I'll go ahead and go first on the Deltas. And I think this one, there was one line that, uh, that dude said, the guy who used, uh, Samuel, who used to work with Marcus, he said one line, but it honestly pervades the entire episode.

And it talks about why the lurkers are volunteering. Marcus is telling him that he gave Samuel a purpose. Why are you leaving to go do this other thing? And Samuel says, it's because your purpose comes from the outside to fight other people's battles. Mine our, our purpose comes from within. It comes from inside me.

So here we go again, like with Jeff, it's always gonna turn into a conversation with that be, do, have kind of a piece. It's such an intrinsic message in Star Trek and I think honestly it's even more of a message now in Babylon five through what we've seen. But yeah, in the be do, have model, you change you to change the things around you or your experience around you.

And it's the same thing when you look for an external motivation, whether it be possessions or a claim or whatever, you're never gonna reach true happiness. You're never really going to be fulfilled. Duncan, when he was running his little shop, like he was looking for something external, a purpose outside of himself, and, and Franklin or Marcus even brought that up, you know, don't you love the negotiation?

You know, the, the, the back and forth of everything. . Ultimately, Duncan was going through the motion seeking something he could never get. His health was failing. He was depressed. He was about to give up. But once he found an internal motivation, he found something inside of himself that mattered and he felt special.

He says that I want to feel special. He had, he was reinvigorated. He's out exploring the universe now. I honestly wish, like if I could look everyone in the eye through the Babylon five for the first time through my Star Trek podcast at Star Fleet Leadership Academy, there's one message that I want you to hear and I want you to understand.

Focus on you. Focus on what is inside of you, and build those things and focus on the things that matter to you. That's the only way you're gonna be fulfilled. That's the only way you're gonna find happiness when you're waiting on something outside of you or you're trying to find that grail out there, that unknown, that unreachable something.

You're in for a life of disappointment and that was the message to this one. Find something within. That's why the lurkers were volunteering to step forward. Ultimately, I'm gonna give this one three deltas cuz I love the message. It was carried out through a good chunk of the episode, but it wasn't the in your face message in any way, um, of it.

But I think it was a really strong message and one that I'm very passionate about. I think you

Brent: might be giving it a few more deltas than I would personally give it. I love what you're saying though, because I did not pull that out. Like it, that, that's a very intriguing concept. I didn't catch that one at all.

Uh, so I love it.

I don't know that I would give it that many, but I'm not doing deltas. You're doing Deltas. I, however, I'm doing star furries. You got star furries. I got star furries. And this is how Babylon five is the episode. How much did we enjoy the episode? How much did it do it in Babylon, five's own way. Jeff, the very first thing that you and I both basically said about this episode is it's Babylon five does conspiracy.

Mm-hmm. . Right? So did it really do it in its own way? How much did we enjoy this episode? It's fine. It's okay. It's a Midland episode. I would change the channel once it got to commercial break. I said earlier, um, overall, I, I did enjoy the episode. I didn't hate it. You know what I mean? Like I didn't get to the end of it and go.

This was a complete, complete piece of garbage trash episode. I'll be very interested when this episode airs. Uh, this. To see what people out there are saying about this episode. Like, are we gonna get the, oh, just wait till next week guys. It gets better. Like, are are, oh yeah. Not every episode's a good

Jeff: one.

Not everyone's aguigui or, or you missed everything. This is the, the whole show.

Brent: Right. You're an idiot. All the foreshadowing and everything. And I'm like, oh God, please stop . Um, but, uh, I, I, I don't think it's a great episode. I think it's fine. You know, I, listen, you got, there's, there's worse ways to spend 22 hours of TV until in 22 hours of tv.

We saw a lot of worse ways in seasons one and two, so, um, true. Yeah. Uh, I, if this was a season two episode, Jeff, I think this would find it probably right. Yeah. Probably just outside the top 10. Middle third ish. Right in there. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know that it's gonna wind up that high out of this season, cause I think this season's gonna wind up being much better.

But, uh, that being said, I'm gonna give this one, two star furries. Okay. It was okay. It was just Okay. Yeah, I can, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave it

Jeff: that I totally agree with that. Not offensive in any way, just, yeah.

Brent: Okay. Yeah, that was an episode. Yeah.

Jeff: There it is. We're done. We're not done. We got one more step we gotta take on this one because Brent, we got two.

Yeah, we do. Well, we got one more for this episode. Oh, fair enough. Right. And this is the important one. This is the one that will last for perpetuity because we are putting together the definitive ranking of season three of Babylon five, our current top five, cuz we now have, uh, more than five that we've gone through.

Number one, it's passing through Gethsemane. And number two, matters of honor, voices of authority, dust to dust, and then. At number five a day in the strife. Brent, where do you rank? Exogenesis.

Brent: All right. Dust to dust. We just did, yes. Last week, A day in the strife was Nans come to Babylon, five to try to replace Ja car, and they have all of that going on.

Re remind me of convictions. Which one was convictions?

Jeff: That was, uh, bomber dude and Londo and Kar in an elevator.

Brent: Right? I loved Londo and Ja car in an elevator, but bomber dude was just, um,

I don't think this one's in the top five. Jeff, the only question is, is it above or below convictions and.

Jeff: there's a right answer here, just so you know. No pressure. But there is a right

Brent: answer. Is there a right answer? I'm gonna put it below convictions. That is the correct answer. Yeah. I'm gonna put it below convictions. I, I really didn't want to just drop it and make it last because that makes it feel like, oh, I hated this episode.

This was like the worst one. I, it's really not that, it just, of the episode so far. This actually probably is the worst. Uh, not worst. That's not, that's right. It's not as good as the other episodes we've

Jeff: seen so far. Yeah. Cause I feel like in convictions, yeah. It had a really weak primary plot in the whole thing, but that Londo and Kar stuff was incredible.

Like it was really, really good. Yeah. This didn't have that to it, it had a mention of a major plot device going on. Yeah. That was about it. Yeah.

Brent: Yeah. And it's, I mean, this mess with my favorite character on the show. Did or dirty? As far as I'm concerned, it just

Jeff: did. Yeah. So not okay. But that's it for Exogenesis.

We like to play game. Brent referenced it at the beginning of the episode, but we look at the title of the next one. We don't look at anything else. And based on the title alone, we guess what it's gonna be about next week is Messages from Earth. So knowing just the title, Brent, what do you think messages from Earth is going to be about?

Brent: I think

Sheridan's getting

Jeff: recalled, oh, this

Brent: is the one I think. I think this is the one where we get to the, you and I have been predicting Babylon five breaks away from from Earth Force. Breaks away from Earth. This is that. This is the beginning of that. I don't know how many episodes it's gonna take to play that out, but this is, I think Sheridan is gonna be pulled off.

Cuz remember Chicky a couple from a couple episodes ago? Oh yeah. She's like, yeah, we're gonna replace these people. And I think that's what this is. I think we're getting people coming out from earth and, uh, Sheridan's gonna get recalled and that's gonna accelerate everybody being like, you know what?

Screw you. We're gonna gonna go do our own thing. And I've, I don't know why I, like, I feel so strongly that this is where we're going as a season and I can't

Jeff: explain why I think it's a natural progression. I don't disagree with your theory at all on it. And

Brent: it, it, it is, it feels like that, right? Like I'm not It does.

Yeah.

Jeff: Which honestly, to go back, it felt weird when Ivanova, when she was defending, not inviting Marcus to Corwin's promotion party and she's like, I don't see an earth Gov thing.

Brent: That was, that was a weird conversation. Yeah. Like all the way around. It was, it was just, Franklin was a nerd. Ivanova was, yeah.

It, look, it was my call. Why was it your call, right? Yeah. The whole thing was we was talking about inviting somebody out to a thing. Who was my call?

Jeff: Ah, who wrote this episode? Yeah. And just a couple, just a couple episodes ago at the end of season two, Sheridan Niva, here we are going back. I said, we're done for it, but I think this is, but she niva talk about how they look at their uniform and they don't have the pride they had in it before, but now she's like, you have an earth gum.

Let's,

Brent: let's, let's restore that pride.

Jeff: Yeah. This year. Yeah. Is that, do you do that by excluding Marcus? No, I, I think, I'm thinking I'm very similar lines. If, if things were a little bit different in this one, I would think that there would be a. That came out towards kind of a weird anomaly in space. And through that they got a bunch of messages from their family earth that they haven't seen in like six years, Uhhuh

And they, you know, they're looking at almost 70 more years before they get home to see them forever. And they read these messages and they get really excited because they think there's gonna be, oh wait, that was a different episode of Voyager where they got messages from, sorry. No, I think this would a pretty close, you

Brent: just buzz yourself for that just because Buzz, I don't left

Jeff: or not

No, but seriously it's messages from Earth. But I think, um, I don't think Sheridan's gonna get recalled, but I think this is where the President Clark investigation stuff kind of comes to a head. I don't know that it'll be resolved, but it gets big. Yeah. I think instead of recalling Sheridan though, we're gonna get.

Wells Chicky version three, along with an entire contingent. They're gonna put like an arm, an Office of the Ministry of Peace on Babylon five and just completely Now, night Watch and Ministry of Peace are part of day-to-day operations in Babylon five.

Brent: I I really hope we get either Wells or Chicky or both.

Both would be great. Yeah. I really, I want this, uh, I, I, I want this conflict. I absolutely want this conflict.

Jeff: Yeah. I think it'll be really good. And we're gonna find out right here next week. Thank you all so much for joining us. If you haven't already, please subscribe or follow us wherever you're listening to us or watching us.

And if you could go by Apple Podcasts, audible, good Pods, pod chaser, leave us a review. I'll read it right here on the podcast. So, until next time. Hey Jeff. Yeah. I got a

Brent: favorite ask. Oh

Jeff: yeah, of course. What do, what do you need?

Brent: So if you and I are ever out there in space for some reason together, I don't know, maybe we're doing a podcast tour or something of that nature, right?

Yeah. And I get taken over by a Parasitical bug. Will you kind of, you know, like, take care of me, like, help me go out and not be like that? Please. What? Yeah. No, no, no. Seriously, cuz like, I hate bugs and I, I, I, I've seen this sci-fi show so many times where people get taken over and I, it's my wish to not live like that.

So please don't let me go on like that. I've seen this before. Something of the host, Brent no. Always survived.

Jeff: No. No, I, I, Brent, I, I'm not going, I'm not killing you. I'm not going to do anything like that whatsoever. Hey, peace, victory, and Long Life.